TLO 2010 [Winning Team: TOFUkingood]

[Master Fenrir]

D is about the only one worthy of a medal. All the other options were either written as a joke (B), are a result of lopsided dice all at once (A), already have a clear leader (C), cannot be gauged fairly (D), or are too subjective (F) (and even this last one I wrote as a joke in the event we go on and win the tourney).

At least D rewards the team that actually won more points than any other, even if they didn't go on to win the tourney, which in my mind is certainly an achievement (coz it's effectively the best overall record) and is what the medal stands for - an achievement in general.

I agree 100% with CoF here. Except that when he said "cannot be gauged fairly (D)", I think he meant (E).

well, if for A suggestion are not counted rounds 1-15, then for noone sugestion shouldnt be counted. achievement is achievement, no matter of timing it was done. also, on the time when I asked for 21-0 GA medal, it was 5 undecided games in our challenge which could turn on other side, and still one game is not won (we have 17-0 with bamboo jack lead, which is far from be decided). so it is not true that asking for 21-0 GA medal was done after we already had that score achieved, as we still do not have 21-0, and on the time when I suggested the medal it was 7-0.

I'm only going to respond to you one last time because you're flat out lying, and then I'm going to ignore you. I have nothing but respect for every player on your team and I have no problem losing the points, the games, or the round to you guys. Because of that respect, I didn't mention the dice in any of my games because I didn't want to go down that road; HOWEVER,

1) The only game that hasn't been decided for quite some time has been Bamboo Jack.

2) You're calling it an "achievement" when the game logs say otherwise. By the way, I think Rodion is a really classy player for being kind enough to admit it. It made the losses seem slightly less bad.

Soviet Union: 2011-03-02 06:00:02 - Kabanellas: you guys get all the dice!!!!!!!!!!!! spare some please
2011-03-02 17:04:11 - Rodion: Sorry, Nuno, but dice are really good this time!

Middle East: 2011-03-05 19:38:13 - Rodion: I almost feel bad winning when dice are this kind

Mongolian Empire: I decide to be cool and continue to real-time the loss and then your dice were so hot that you actually started hitting neutrals for bonuses instead of just attacking me directly when you had access to every one of my regions:
2011-02-20 18:14:57 - josko.ri assaulted Khanbaliq from Nuzhen and conquered it from neutral player
2011-02-20 18:15:10 - josko.ri reinforced Uigur with 4 troops from Nuzhen
2011-02-20 18:15:10 - josko.ri ended the turn and got spoils
2011-02-20 18:15:36 - Master Fenrir received 3 troops for 7 regions

What you're suggesting is like asking for bonus money for winning the lottery.

[Chariot of Fire]

You're right MF, I did mean 'E', thanks.

josko - I really think asking for a GA medal when your team's on the verge of going 21-0 is kinda cheap. Would you have asked for it had this not been the case? I'm sure it's not coincidence.

[josko.ri]

@ Fenrir:
thanks for neglect our good strategy and trying to put all guilty for loosing games on dices. honestly, do you think that you would loose 21-0 vs any other opponents if the dices were the same? or here are still some skill in your opponents team which caused that we well used good dices for our winning?

as for my games, I may tell you that in greater china your team had better drop/dices (starting turn with bonus of 1 owned plus good dices later, or at least equal ones on both side).
in soviet you often just dropped and didnt atack and we dropped and attack almost everytime, so it was normal that our much more attacks will give us better dices than yours.
in mongol empire I took neutral because you also had to take the other neutral to break my bonus, so if we both take one neutral it is the same troops wasting on it from both sides. and, I just had to kill neutral to take bonus, while you had to kill neutral plus my defensive stack to break, so I had more chance to hold it than you to break it.

so, maybe we had better dices in some games (in some a lot better), but we didnt have better dices in all games (greater china), and phillipine/2 singles/iwo jima I cant say as wasnt there inside games.

when you loose 21-0, saying that it was ONLY about dices is all but not fair. will you loose 21-0 vs every team with the same kind of dices, or our tactics also had some role in our win?

@CoF: I never thought it is even possible to have 21-0 win and also never thought about some GA for these tourney as it began before GA policy was applied. when I saw that we can maybe achieve 21-0 (as little or bigger lead we had in all games on that time) it comes to my mind that winning 21-0 is so huge and rarely achievement that it can be worth GA medal, as GA medal are awarded for a lot other reasons which is much easier to achieve than 21-0 in TLO, like winning any round 3-0 in best of 3 series (in some other tourney).

also, start thinking about GA medals on that time opened the idea that it would be good for whole tourney to have it because it is question about level of motivation for some teams from bottom of table in later rounds. if some GA medals are here, then motivation would for sure be bigger, as they would still play with chance to win something.

[danryan]

You're right, josko. You are awesome. I think you should get a GA medal for deigning to participate in games with the rest of us. I'm surprised you ever lose games at all, though. You might want to check your ego. How have you lost 4 rounds so far, that's inconceivable, isn't it?

BTW, you're right about Greater China, you guys played great and I made a horrible blunder in round 2. As to who else could beat us 21-0, I'd say probably 10 of the teams in the TLO could, given good dice/drops. Si's team (which we were the only ones to beat so far, thanks to extremely good dice/drops) would probably beat us more times than not. The Hard Half Dozen, with Space Cowboy and co, could beat most teams on here 21-0 given decent dice and drops. I could go on.

Face it, without all the dice/drops/play falling exactly your way no one is going to win 21-0. Is it worthy of a GA medal? Probably so. Is it in extremely poor taste to ask for one midway through a round where you're likely to achieve it? Pretty tacky if you ask me.

[Lufsen75]

I believe this with a GA medal should be in the next TLO.

you could also add the most wins. Comment is that you can win a majority of games but not win the fight because it is different points for the games. I like A and C. Someone of them should be fair, but only from next tournament.

[Chariot of Fire]

We went 21-0. Kept it low key, apologised to the oppo for being on the receiving end of some rotten luck, and never asked for a medal. That's the TOFU-KORT divide

[thebest712]

We went 21-0. Kept it low key, apologised to the oppo for being on the receiving end of some rotten luck, and never asked for a medal. That's the TOFU-KORT divide

[danryan]

We went 21-0. Kept it low key, apologised to the oppo for being on the receiving end of some rotten luck, and never asked for a medal. That's the TOFU-KORT divide

Actually I agree, this is one individual and nothing to do with a clan. But enough about that.

I think the point of the GA medals as a reward is good for both a 21-0 round, for a player who has the best overall win % while playing a certain minimum number of games (I believe that's how the MVP is being done this time), I also like the best point differential overall. I don't see it as a second place medal - it's not unlike another recent tournament where the most points won but most eliminations got the GA medal.

Most 11/10 wins could encourage game throwing if one team reaches 11 points, so I see it as slightly problematic.

[Master Fenrir]

is the idea for GA medal for going 21-0 in any round accepted?

Are you seriously asking for a GA medal for dicefucking us in Round 15?

I'd like to apologize to the Kort players for this. I wasn't in every game, so it was unfair of me to say. As I said, I respect the players on your team and understand that even given even dice, there's a possibility that you could have won every game individually based on nothing but strategy and drop. Round 15 left me feeling violated and raw and that feeling got the best of me when I read what Josko wrote. Apologies again.

I honestly don't even care if you get the GA medal or not, my main issue was with some of the things that Josko said, which I felt were either exaggerations or half-truths. I will be sending Josko a PM to discuss those things further.

Lindax, sorry about bumming out your thread.

[Chariot of Fire]

Actually I agree, this is one individual and nothing to do with a clan.

Ah OK, so it's just a medal for josko and not for the whole KORT team (who are aware of this debate yet haven't commented).

Didn't think so.

[Lindax]

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Thank you all so far for your participation in the discussion about GA Medals.

While I'm reading through everything and formulate a decision I will ask for one thing: Let's keep this discussion free from any personal and/or clan issues and give everybody a chance to express their opinion on the topic of GA Medals.

Thanks!

Lx

[thebest712]

A team who wins any round 21-0
sounds fun
Give one to the poor bastards who didn't manage to win a point
nope

"Doing the bare minimum" - team with the most 11x10 wins in the end of the tournament
like this the most, about the teams that would lose games to have 11 points, well don't know what to say about that

The team with the best overall points differential (if it's not the team that wins overall)
like it, why not if the team wins overall?

The team that has distributed its gameload the most between its six members
no opinion

The team with most appropriate name
can I be in jury

[josko.ri]

Let's keep this discussion free from any personal and/or clan issues

for some people respecting that is hard to expect. no matter what was the suggestion, for some people it only means whose suggestion it was. I am sure if the same suggestion about 21-0 came from any other player than me, it would be no overreacting and no showing it like cheap suggestion. but it came from me, so it is needed to again write as many as possible negative things about me and everything that I say/suggest. some people obviously cannot grow up and not poisoning other tourneys/events with their past issues.

the fact that in 1,5 year of TLO it was only once 21-0 win proves that it is really great and big achievement so having that in mind makes me idea to suggest it. now, more than 10 days after my suggestion, we still do not have 21-0, which means that 10 days ago nobody could be sure that we will win all, there were 5 games still ongoing. it is not like I asked for GA after we won all, it was a lot of fight to do (and still is) to achieve it. I am sure if the same idea came from other person, it would be accepted like a great idea, but as I was the one who suggested it, that was great opportunity to (again) show me like cheap, poor and dishonorable person.

just please consider how many new different ideas were following my one. I doubt it would anytime be some GA discussion here in TLO if I didnt initiate it with my suggestion. instead of respect the ones who try to contribute for progress of the site by their suggestion(s), someones rather choose to bring here their past issues and try to disgrace me. very constructive from them indeed

I am not and never was medal hunter (I even do not agree that clan medals should be awarded for every clan win, it should be just for winning whole thing IMO), I just think that winning 21-0 is much harder to achieve than the most of other things which is awarded by GA medal. as for 21-0 medal, it do not need to be awarded, if whole community will then be much more happy. one medal more or less is not big deal, and it is sad to see how much negative energy someones waste for such a minor thing like GA medal.

[Lindax]

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Round 14 has finished, results, scores and standings updated.

See page 1: MAIN EVENT

Lx

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[MasterGuns]

1. A team who wins any round 21-0
   Comments: I like the idea, but it would have to be the first team to do this after Round 15.
   Sounds OK
   MG: eh no comment but think anything like this would have to be stated in the beginning of the tourney
   
   
2. Give one to the poor bastards who didn't manage to win a point
   does this team exist?
   MG: lol, um no
   
3. "Doing the bare minimum" - team with the most 11x10 wins in the end of the tournament
   Comments: I like this one very much.
   nah
   MG: no opinion
   
4. The team with the best overall points differential (if it's not the team that wins overall)
   Comments: This is not going to happen. It would be like giving a GA Medal to the losers of the final.
   I definitely like the idea! The current team w/the most points is not in 1st or 2nd place though
   MG: sounds good
   
5. The team that has distributed its gameload the most between its six members
   Comments: I understand where you're coming from. However we have various teams with less than 6 members, it wouldn't be fair on them.
   Sounds OK
   no opinion
   
6. The team with most appropriate name... MG- um no
   Comments: Great idea, I nominate the team name "Rangers of the North".
   Who decides? is this really deserving of a medal?

[Lindax]

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Round 15 results and scores updated.

See page 1: MAIN EVENT

Lx

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[Lindax]

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I have decided not to introduce any "new" General Achievement Medals for this running tournament. As you all know, we have one going to the MVP.

Thanks for the ideas, comments and suggestions, I will take all those into account for the next edition of this tournament. Keep in mind that GA Medals for Tournaments are not only granted for "huge achievements" but are also available for more "fun and games" stuff.

Below some comments/explanations in blue:

1. A team who wins any round 21-0
   Comments: I like the idea, but it would have to be the first team to do this after Round 15.
   I stated after round 15 because I simply would not introduce this in the middle of a round with one team having no wins yet, totally independent of which team. I definitely think it's a good idea and it's obviously an accomplishment, even though luck will always play a factor.
   
   
2. Give one to the poor bastards who didn't manage to win a point
   This was obviously a joke, as noted by others already.
   
   
3. "Doing the bare minimum" - team with the most 11x10 wins in the end of the tournament
   Comments: I like this one very much.
   I still like this one, although I understand concerns about the possibility of throwing a game to get that medal. That alone would be a reason not to go for this, because I would not want to encourage throwing a game for a GA Medal, however unlikely that may be in the current company.
   
   
4. The team with the best overall points differential (if it's not the team that wins overall)
   Comments: This is not going to happen. It would be like giving a GA Medal to the losers of the final.
   You guys got me thinking about this one again and I agree that it is not exactly the same as giving a medal to the losers of the final. It does bring up the question which team should win the tournament: The team who beats more other teams or the team with the most overall wins? I'm going to play around with this idea a bit more....
   
   
5. The team that has distributed its gameload the most between its six members
   Comments: I understand where you're coming from. However we have various teams with less than 6 members, it wouldn't be fair on them.
   No further comments necessary, I think. And I'm not going to force a team to use 6 players.
   
   
6. The team with most appropriate name
   Comments: Great idea, I nominate the team name "Rangers of the North".
   My comment was a joke and for those who did not realize; I'm a member of Rangers of the North. On another note: This would be a valid idea (in the fun and games department), however it would definitely have to be announced before teams come up with a name and the winners would be decided by voting.
   
   
7. Teams that did NOT sit for another teammate
   I understand where this comes from, however it would be practically impossible to track. Besides that, something can always come up and then it would be better to account sit then just have the player deadbeat because of a medal.
   
   
8. Medals for team captains (just for all the aggravation to get their own team organized)
   If your team causes you aggravation as the Team Captain you definitely don't earn a medal because you obviously don't have things organized. --> I could agree with a medal for the Team Captain that causes the tournament organizer the least aggravation.

Thanks to all that responded with their opinion on GA Medals for this tournament. I guess next time I should ask for opinions by PM.

So hereby: If anybody has anything to add and help me with the ideas for GA Medals, please send me a PM instead of posting here.

Thanks!

Lx

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[thebest712]

D, why not if the team wins overall?

[Lindax]

D, why not if the team wins overall?

Indeed.

Lx

[Rodion]

D, why not if the team wins overall?

Indeed.

Lx

From what I've realized from several tournaments, everytime they institute a GA medal for an excellent performance, they put up a clause stating the winner can't get that medal, possibly because that would mean their excellent performance got rewarded twice (tournament medal and GA medal). I always thought this was some sort of "unwritten rule", but Lindax's response suggests otherwise.

That noted, I don't have a strong opinion about whether that clause should exist or not.

[Lindax]

D, why not if the team wins overall?

Indeed.

Lx

From what I've realized from several tournaments, everytime they institute a GA medal for an excellent performance, they put up a clause stating the winner can't get that medal, possibly because that would mean their excellent performance got rewarded twice (tournament medal and GA medal). I always thought this was some sort of "unwritten rule", but Lindax's response suggests otherwise.

That noted, I don't have a strong opinion about whether that clause should exist or not.

As you may know, I'm the TD responsible for approving/granting GA Medals for tournaments.

The only unwritten rule I go by is that I will not grant a GA Medal if it is already clear from the start that the winners of the tournament will also be the winners of the GA Medal.

Many TOs include the rule themselves that says something like: "If it's the winner of the tournament the next in line will get the GA Medal". That "rule" however, does not come from the tournament department.

I guess most TOs feel that since the winner already gets a medal, they prefer somebody else to get the GA Medal.

I personally feel the same way, that's why I generally steer TOs away from GA Medals for something that will likely lead to the winner getting all the medals. Having said that, I don't have a problem with it either if it simply turns out to be the same player/team that happens to win both medals.... (hope that makes sense ).

Lx

[Chariot of Fire]

It's hard to condone awarding the overall winners with a GA medal in addition to a tourney medal. However if a team has gone all season through a long tourney such as this, won more points than any other team, yet not managed to finish first I'd have thought that this is an achievement worthy of recognition and is in keeping with what the GA medal stands for.

[Rodion]

(hope that makes sense )

Lx

I understood. Thanks!

[Lindax]

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Round 16 results updated.

See page 1: MAIN EVENT

Lx

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[Tennisie]

I_Refuse and Tennisie won round 16 doubles against Draq and Anonymus.