[CR@W] the Bannermen [Complete] - House of Fire (TOFU) Wins!

[IcePack]

I appreciate all the suggestions even ones I can't use some have spurned different ideas that I can use so all are welcome

[IcePack]

My apologies, update will occur tonight. Had a bit of a rough day yesterday

[IcePack]

IcePack is a POS. IcePack is 1/2 done the update. IcePack will attempt to finish tonight. IcePack is sorry.

[CatchersMitt14]

IcePack is a POS. IcePack is 1/2 done the update. IcePack will attempt to finish tonight. IcePack is sorry.

cookie?

[MTIceman41]

IcePack is a POS. IcePack is 1/2 done the update. IcePack will attempt to finish tonight. IcePack is sorry.

Recharge man! Pretty sure you could create an Icepack fan club
Thanks for all your hard work...feel free to play the trips siege game tired though

[IcePack]

Thanks for understanding everyone. Its been a rough week, I updated all the backend stuff (my notes and main board and back end information that you guys dont see) plus i've done about 1/2 of the public updates. I'll finish the last handful tomorrow when i wake up first thing.

That means, I'll finish it early Saturday the 22nd and you're next turns will be due Sunday @ 2400 April 23rd for Turn 29

[catnipdreams]

IcePack is a POS. IcePack is 1/2 done the update. IcePack will attempt to finish tonight. IcePack is sorry.

Hey! Stop dissing IcePack, he's a good guy! [hug]

[Bantam]

I think IcePack has been hacked......

Its well known that no-one believes IcePack is a POS.

IcePack is a POS. IcePack is 1/2 done the update. IcePack will attempt to finish tonight. IcePack is sorry.

[IcePack]

I've booked my evening free for CR@W, update will happen this evening.

Ice

[ElricTheGreat]

I've booked my evening free for CR@W, update will happen this evening.

Ice

Now now ... stop teasing already

[Dukasaur]

I see in the poll that I'm in the minority...

I think this is a great game. Part of the greatness is that even someone who only looks at it once every two or three days can still understand what is going on. Adding more bells and whistles will jeopardize this essential simplicity.

Once it gets so complicated that people need to spend an hour a day studying their options, a lot of people will tune out. They may still play, under the guidance of their clan's mastermind, but they will cease being invested in what's going on. We're actually close to that now. 90% of the decisions we've made as a group, but about 10% of the time it got so complex that we just said to our resident mastermind, "do whatever you think is best, because the rest of us don't have a clue." That's okay when it's 90/10, but if it was 10/90 I think I and a great many others would just not bother even trying to understand what is going on.

[IcePack]

I see in the poll that I'm in the minority...

I think this is a great game. Part of the greatness is that even someone who only looks at it once every two or three days can still understand what is going on. Adding more bells and whistles will jeopardize this essential simplicity.

Once it gets so complicated that people need to spend an hour a day studying their options, a lot of people will tune out. They may still play, under the guidance of their clan's mastermind, but they will cease being invested in what's going on. We're actually close to that now. 90% of the decisions we've made as a group, but about 10% of the time it got so complex that we just said to our resident mastermind, "do whatever you think is best, because the rest of us don't have a clue." That's okay when it's 90/10, but if it was 10/90 I think I and a great many others would just not bother even trying to understand what is going on.

Well, I think there will be some simplification in some areas (such as ambushes, moving in / out of engagements) but currently am adding some limited complexity. However, I AM trying to keep it simple enough that the majority can log in and still understand whats going on. My attempt is also, where adding complexity I also will make efforts to make it much easier to follow and very clear.

But yes, I've receive a lot of feedback / compliments on making it interesting yet simple, to where after a short albeit kinda overwhelming familiarization with just the concept in general (since it was totally different to anything CC or Clans had offered previously) it got easier once those things were grasped. I still plan and hope to have that as a central tenant to the game, just maybe a few extra bells and whistles.

The way I see it maybe we are at a 3-5 (out of 10) in complexity, and I'll try removing some of the 5's, and add new 5's that add more to the game and maybe make it a 3-6 overall (out of 10). After we've had 2 editions, we can decide if I went to far, not far enough, whatever and go from there. Version 1 was a HUGE experiment (just to see if people were interested, and if it would work) which I got answered as a yes, and no. Yes, people are interested, yes, it works, but no, its not managable in its current form (for me). So I, and the site are taking steps so that the whole "crap we missed 4 days in a row cuz IcePack got busy" just wont happen again.

If everyone can play the game in under an hour (especially me) then I'm a happy camper. Most people said there was a bit of a learning curve and played 15-30 mins up to an hour, and now that they've gotten the hang of the more complex things that time has decreased considerably. I'm hoping the same sort of thing will happen again, except on my side of things stay dropped lol

Hope that helps calm / reassure people and just generally explain where we (might) be headed moving forward.

[Dukasaur]

Sounds good. The occasional new flourish to make it interesting, without throwing a whole pot of spaghetti into the blender.

[IcePack]

So far, I've heard back from 10/15 active Houses.
8/10 positive w/ comments
2/10 kinda positive w/ bigger concerns

[IcePack]

New Poll

One of my thoughts for v2.0 is to impliment a health point (HP) & damage system. One of the big feedback I've heard was that one unlucky / bad game could end a Lords participation in CR@W. Now, with the HP / DMG system there STILL is a chance that could happen, but there would be different strategies you could impliment (TBD) that could help your health, or deal more damage per win etc.

I have some ideas for this system, but I want to know what peoples thoughts are on it before I really start digging into the time it would take to really balance this system well.

But the essential idea is, one loss would ensure you take damage, but you might be able to survive more then one loss (maybe not). But it gives you the chance.

Thanks
Ice

[rockfist]

I already find the engagements can take too long relative to movement (people can slow play games they are losing). I think with hit points that would become worse.

Maybe have it so a Lord could be revived (but keep the limit ten per clan). This would not slow down game play further.

[TX AG 90]

At first, I was hesitant because it is already tough to take a castle with lords stacked there. I would be more for it if multiple lords could attack an Op Lord simultaneously. For instance, if the standard health of a Lord is 3 and you surround him with 3 Lords and attack, he has 3 battles going. If he loses 2/3, he is down to 1 health.

Also, if there is a mechanism to regain health (travel to nearest friendly castle AND spend Gold).

New Poll

One of my thoughts for v2.0 is to impliment a health point (HP) & damage system. One of the big feedback I've heard was that one unlucky / bad game could end a Lords participation in CR@W. Now, with the HP / DMG system there STILL is a chance that could happen, but there would be different strategies you could impliment (TBD) that could help your health, or deal more damage per win etc.

I have some ideas for this system, but I want to know what peoples thoughts are on it before I really start digging into the time it would take to really balance this system well.

But the essential idea is, one loss would ensure you take damage, but you might be able to survive more then one loss (maybe not). But it gives you the chance.

Thanks
Ice

[IcePack]

Regarding engagements, I've found most of them have actually gone a little quicker than expected. (Not by much but a bit) Overall, I did expect slow play and with the turns ticking by at a slower pace, this actually makes battles even faster. Where one lord might have been tied up for two weeks / seven turns if they went as scheduled, they're only missing 3/4 turns in battle cuz of the time it takes to update.

The comparison I made in design was siege battles could take weeks and sometimes months, so attacking a castle was a big deal. Travel was also slow, tedious, and fairly dangerous / suseptiable to ambushes etc.

So as far as that aspect goes, I would say it's probably the portion of the game that's gone closest to what I anticipated during design with the only hiccup / change being that I couldn't process turns as fast as planned so they actually miss less turns then planned for battles. (On average)

Regarding your comments TX - multi / simeloutanous attacks are being considered. It's not so much 3 HP + loses 2/3 he's down to 1. The system im thinking includes an element of random (dice) so for example, he has 5 HP and loses. Lord X has a DMG capability of 1d4 (1-4) and so I roll and he does 3 damage. But you'd be able to do things to improve damage or overall HP etc as part of your strategy considerations.

But you would be able to attack simeltanously a lord w 5 HP, and both lords deal 1d4 damage so if he loses both battles, you'd deal 2-8 DMG to the opposing Lord.

Regarding healing or revived, that's something I've considered and not yet determined. The route I go that way will depend on what I need to do to keep the game balanced properly. So mostly TBD (but being considered). I need to know the answer to the HP / DMG system before I can dive into those type of specifics for play test / balance

[IcePack]

PS - I don't have my CR@W accessible @ work during the day. That's why during the day I usually mess around / think about v2. I'm not taking time away from the update or anything to push v2, just trying to best utilize the time I have available so I can get both done

[Robespierre__]

Love TX AG 90's idea for multiple attacks. That in and of itself would make gameplay better. I like the damage idea as well. You can lose battles and suffer strategic consequences but not necessarily be out of the game. 6-sided die where 1 is no damage, 6 is dead, 2=1 hp, 3=2 hps damage etc). Something like that. Throwing stuff against the wall ....

[IcePack]

Any feedback or reasons for the hate / dislike group?

[shocked439]

Any feedback or reasons for the hate / dislike group?

I think CR@W is more of a casual type event. A way to have some fun with the clans without the stress of the larger events. Every idea for improvement that I've read has an element of RNG built in to it, and that is ok, but as you add more complexity and extend the staying power of a player the longer the game takes and the more time that needs to be dedicated to the event. There would now be another layer of strategy that needs to be considered, if a lord is on the cusp utilizing all of their hp and are in a stronger houses territory is it advantageous to move them towards a weaker house and install a new lord in the area. Do you sacrifice lords on the cusp of expiring it just seems to make the decision tree grow exponentially. On the surface it might make for a more enjoyable game but it could become a burden and make for less engagement from clans with different priorities.

[rockfist]

I agree with what he said, and he said it so much more eloquently than I would've

[IcePack]

Thank you still all ears for either side of feedback

[HotShot53]

One question, if you implement the HP/damage system, would that mean lords only take damage, return home, and are no longer captured? Or would taking damage be the minimum, but then they are also captured and the capturing lord can do whatever they want just as it is in this version?