Penalty for Missing Turns

[IvanDrake]

I know this has been discussed before, but why the hell do players who deadbeat get armies for their missed turns when they finally do decide to show up and play? I find this silly and incredibly frustrating.

I recently experienced a player who missed the first 2 turns of a 6-player World 2.1 game suddenly show up, cash in for three turns worth of armies and destroy another player at random. It's ridiculous.

Can someone *please* explain to me why this is allowed?

--- IvanDrake

[wiglaf]

Something I just witnessed that irked me a little, was that the continent bonuses get multiplied too. Sometimes deadbeat players are surrounded by other deadbeat players, and it's very hard to break through to take part of their continent. I always kinda thought you should at least show up to get the bonus.

[JerenYun]

What if someone has a good reason for missing their turn? Are you wanting to penalize someone for not playing their turn for, say, caring for a dying family member some day?

[Heretic]

What if someone has a good reason for missing their turn? Are you wanting to penalize someone for not playing their turn for, say, caring for a dying family member some day?

If I had a dying family member to take care of,missing my bonus on CC would be the least of my worries.

If someone has a good reason with missing a turn,they can always state it in the game chat and apologise for the inconvenience.I've done so a couple of times myself.And I wouldn't mind missing continent bonus for missed turns whatsoever.It would only be fair for other players,not a punishment.

[tahitiwahini]

What if someone has a good reason for missing their turn? Are you wanting to penalize someone for not playing their turn for, say, caring for a dying family member some day?

If I had a dying family member to take care of,missing my bonus on CC would be the least of my worries.

If someone has a good reason with missing a turn,they can always state it in the game chat and apologise for the inconvenience.I've done so a couple of times myself.And I wouldn't mind missing continent bonus for missed turns whatsoever.It would only be fair for other players,not a punishment.

Well said. The missed turn bonus only makes it more likely that there will be more missed turns. When you subsidize something you usually get more of it. If you have bad reasons for missing your turn, then there's no reason to subsidize that kind of behavior. If you have good reasons for missing your turn, then for goodness sake realize that there are more important things in life than CC and get over it.

It's unfortunate when a player misses a turn. It has negative consequences for everyone in the game. My feeling is that the negative consequences should be restricted to the extent possible to the person who had the most control over the turn being missed. The other players in the game have no control over whether a player misses his turn or not. The player who misses his turn may or may not have control over whether he misses his turn or not. In the event he had control over whether he missed his turn and chose to miss his turn anyway then it's only proper that he suffer the consequences of his decision. In the event he had no control over whether he missed his turn, that's still no reason to penalize the other players in the game. We are all responsible for our own actions whether we like the responsibility or not.

[RobinJ]

While I understand you grievance and I agree that you should announce when you will miss a turn, I'm very tempted to say GFY cos I've heard this too many times.

[KidWhisky]

I am in a game were a player missed two turns early in the game and used the multiplyer to route me from my continent. Its not the fact that he took my continent that bothers me, that’s part of the game. But him holding up the game for two turns just so he could do it frustrates me to no end. Why should some pissant be rewarded for deadbeating two turns. He makes the entire game wait and then gets rewarded with enough armies to take a continent he would not have had without the multiplier bonus armies. Why do we reward this kind of behavior.

[MeDeFe]

On the other hand, sometimes things "pile up". You could swear you took your turn in every game you could just before you went to that party, it gets late and later you sort of stay there get home in the morning (if you're really good) or early afternoon. Take your turns again and notice one game where your armies are being multiplied and you have no idea when or how you missed that turn. After all you took them no more than 24 or at most 28 hours ago.
/rant

that's fine, can happen to anyone. But there should be "diminishing returns" for the second missed turn IMO, maybe like 50% of your armies (rounded down) for that one.

[civver]

I thought complaints about people who miss their turns were exaggerated. Now I was in a game and is now in a game involving a person who kept missing their turns. It is very annoying, and it would do some good to explain why so I can understand.

[IvanDrake]

Thanks for all the replies (including the "Go F Yourself" one!). But my question has still not been answered. I know this topic comes up all the time and I don't mean to beat a dead horse (or a deadbeat.... LOL), but I'd really like to know the reasoning behind this policy.

Thanks.

--- IvanDrake

[wacicha]

it use to be worse you it was not just 3 days, we discussed it rationally and decided to narrow it down to 3 days.

[Maugrim]

Obviously players missing turns is irritating. And I think that 3 missed turns may be high for "allowed" absenteeism.

Why do people miss turns?

There are cases where people sign up for games but then never play, largely rookie players.

There are cases where people miss turns for a valid reason. Despite what some people seem to believe, life is a valid reason. I missed a turn last Saturday in 3 games because I had to travel and didn't have easy access to a computer. I lost 2 possibly winnable games as a result because I didn't get a chance to move or reinforce. In other words, I've been penalized for my missed turn. Why take away the troop bonus as well? Had I taken my turn, I could very well have just placed my troops on one of my countries and not done anything else. I could have waited until the 23rd hour and 59th minute to do so. How is missing a turn any more of a detriment to the game than a player who plays at the end of their allotted time? Maybe we should make the troop bonus decrease the farther in to a turn you get? At hour 18 perhaps you should only get 75% of the armies you would have at hour 24? (I'm not talking about deadbeating here. I'm referring to players who miss only one turn for personal reasons.

Does taking away armies from a person who missed a turn encourage them to come back and play once a turn has been played? No. In fact, it offers a disincentive to come back. I know that I'm more likely to return to a game that I have a chance to win than one that's obviously a lost cause.

So, in conclusion, rookie players who are going to deadbeat are going to deadbeat. Removing their bonus armies has no effect on them. However, removing the bonus armies of someone who would otherwise play again after having missed a turn creates a disincentive for that person to return, and really doesn't make much sense in the first place within the rules of the game.

The remove-the-bonus-armies faction doesn't seem to have much of a leg to stand on.

(Edited for clarity)

[oVo]

The deadbeat topic does come up a lot and I too wish the policy on missed turns would be altered. It's most annoying when noobs join a game and never return to play. In another thread several options were thrown out there that I think are worth consideration. (1) Make all players take their first turn. It's the only time a player receives an emailed announcement that their game has started, so at least they are forewarned and kick them out if they choose to skip it. A recent game had two deadbeats and it took over a week to reach round two. (2) With each missed turn a players go time is cut in half, that way someone who misses 5 or 7 turns in a game won't keep everyone else waiting as long as the game progresses.

Kick a deadbeat today!

[jaybebo]

I do have one question.

If players miss a turn and receive the doubling of the armies, what happens to those players that start their turn, but fail to place their armies...maybe they got called away from the game and the hour time limit expires?

From what I have seen, they lose the armies and cannot get them back...at least, that is the way I perceived it.

[oVo]

Start a turn and fail to deploy your troops before your time expires and you lose them, even if the site goes wonky and won't let you play. You also don't get a card, if that applies to your game.

Right now it is only in a game with cards that a missed turn costs a player anything. Of course many players here make an effort to conquer territories and break continents of players who miss turns whenever possible, to reduce the effects of a 2x and 3x bonus.

[tahitiwahini]

My comments in blue.

Obviously players missing turns is irritating. And I think that 3 missed turns may be high for "allowed" absenteeism.

Yes, it is high for "allowed" absenteeism. It's actually worse than that, a player can miss an infinite number of turns without being kicked out of the game so long as he doesn't miss three turns in a row. In other words, in order to not be kicked out of a game a player can take as little as one turn in a 72 hour period.

Why do people miss turns?

There are cases where people sign up for games but then never play, largely rookie players.

There are cases where people miss turns for a valid reason. Despite what some people seem to believe, life is a valid reason. I missed a turn last Saturday in 3 games because I had to travel and didn't have easy access to a computer. I lost 2 possibly winnable games as a result because I didn't get a chance to move or reinforce. In other words, I've been penalized for my missed turn. Why take away the troop bonus as well? Had I taken my turn, I could very well have just placed my troops on one of my countries and not done anything else. I could have waited until the 23rd hour and 59th minute to do so. How is missing a turn any more of a detriment to the game than a player who plays at the end of their allotted time? Maybe we should make the troop bonus decrease the farther in to a turn you get? At hour 18 perhaps you should only get 75% of the armies you would have at hour 24? (I'm not talking about deadbeating here. I'm referring to players who miss only one turn for personal reasons.

When you missed turns in 3 of your games, a minimum of three and a maximum of 15 other players had their games delayed by 24 hours. You should be concerned about the effect your actions have on your fellow players. Should a person be allowed to miss a turn? Certainly but they should be allowed to miss the turn without any compensation in the form of a missed turn bonus.

As regards to how a missed turn is more of a detriment to the game than a player who plays at the end of their allotted time: in the first case the player gets to deploy an allotment that is 2 or 3 times greater than a normal allotment. That in itself is a tremendous strategic and tactical advantage especially early in the game. In a no cards or even escalating cards game missing your first turn can be a sound tactic. You return with a 6 army bonus which you can deploy anywhere. The effectiveness of an attack from a deployment of 6 armies is obviously greater than the effectiveness of an attack from a deployment of 3 armies. All the remaining players in the game must adjust their strategies to the extent that is even possible to the uncertainty that you will return with 2 or 3 times the normal allotment or perhaps not return at all at which point they will have to deal with the neutral armies you leave behind. Because of the missed turn bonus, your missed turn has a greater negative effect on the game than there would be without the missed turn bonus.

Does taking away armies from a person who missed a turn encourage them to come back and play once a turn has been played? No. In fact, it offers a disincentive to come back. I know that I'm more likely to return to a game that I have a chance to win than one that's obviously a lost cause.

Interesting way to put it. It's not taking away an allotment from the person who missed his turn, he did that himself by missing the turn. In other words, if you take your turn you are entitled to an allotment of armies based on territories held by you. If you miss your turn, then you are no longer entitled and you miss your allotment.

Is is a disincentive to come back to the game? I guess I would question why a player needs an incentive to take his turn in the first place. And if it's really true that a player needs an incentive to come back to the game and take his turn, then I question whether I want this player in the game in the first place. In other words, if it's not enough to know that his behavior is negatively impacting his fellow players, but in order to do the right thing and take his turn, this player needs an incentive, then I tend to think his removal from the game is a net positive for all the other players in the game who managed to do the right thing without being incentivized to do so.

Finally, since we're talking about disincentives, how much of a disincentive is it for new players to play with players missing their turns. For example, a new player joins a game and a player who is supposed to take his turn before him doesn't. So there is a 24 hour delay before the new player can take his first turn. Then say another player misses his turn. If both players continue to miss their turns, then our new player gets to take a turn once every 2 days. Since this new player very likely has a regular membership meaning he can only play 4 games, he gets disgusted with the site and never comes back. The site has just lost a player who showed no inclination to miss turns. That means this new player will never become a premium member and the site will be out a potential $20. All this in order to keep a player around who has shown an inclination to miss turns. From a financial standpoint this business decision just doesn't make any sense to me.

So, in conclusion, rookie players who are going to deadbeat are going to deadbeat. Removing their bonus armies has no effect on them. However, removing the bonus armies of someone who would otherwise play again after having missed a turn creates a disincentive for that person to return, and really doesn't make much sense in the first place within the rules of the game.

If rookie players who are going to deadbeat are going to deadbeat then removing the missed turn bonus has no negative effect on them, right? But removing the missed turn bonus from someone who would otherwise play again creates a disincentive for that person to return. Exactly. We are providing a disincentive for someone who has shown a proclivity to miss turns to return to the game. So someone who may have missed 8 turns if they were given a incentive to keep returning to the game is gone from the game after 3 missed turns instead. I'm down with that outcome. Punish the guilty, spare the innocent -- that's my motto.

The remove-the-bonus-armies faction doesn't seem to have much of a leg to stand on.

Well, I respectfully disagree with that conclusion. Just the opposite is true.

(Edited for clarity)

[Nc_Hunt3r]

I have one player in a game deadbeating every other turn.. And the only thing he does is deploy them on a state then end his turn thats it. NO attacks and no cards.

Why cant we get the option to set the minimal time to play? I.e. 12hr or 6 hrs??

I recently bought premium because I love the game and was frustrated with only 4 games taking so long.. Now I have 15 games taking as long as the 4 games with atleast 1 to 2 deadbeaters in every game.. Or 1 to 2 people that stretch thier turns out to the 20hrs or so..

Even though ive already paid im half tempted to quit because its extremely frustrating..

[tahitiwahini]

I have one player in a game deadbeating every other turn.. And the only thing he does is deploy them on a state then end his turn thats it. NO attacks and no cards.

Why cant we get the option to set the minimal time to play? I.e. 12hr or 6 hrs??

I recently bought premium because I love the game and was frustrated with only 4 games taking so long.. Now I have 15 games taking as long as the 4 games with atleast 1 to 2 deadbeaters in every game.. Or 1 to 2 people that stretch thier turns out to the 20hrs or so..

Even though ive already paid im half tempted to quit because its extremely frustrating..

Exhibit A. This is what I'm talking about. An honorable player who does not have a propensity to miss turns becomes a premium member of this site and is nearly driven away by deadbeaters that the site goes out of its way to coddle with a missed turn bonus. I hope you don't leave before the administrators of this site realize what's happening and eliminate the misguided missed turn bonus.

[freezie]

The problem is not deadbeats, new players will often come, then go without taking a single turn on cc in their life. Some have very legit reasons to miss a turn ( cc is NOT your life, well in msot cases *cough not mine cough*).


People that will on purpose delay a game to their own advantage is the problem. Negative feedbacks help..But won't solve the problem directly.

How to solve that problem? I beleive that making the bonus you get for missing a turn less than what it is right now would help. Let's say, if you were to gain 6 armies on your turn, getting 8-9 after missing 1 or 2 turns ( and not 12-18 like it is right now ) would help.

If you have a reason, you wouldn't really care. There is far more important things than CC. Actually, you could totally remove the bonus without hurting anyone.

There is a few solutions already going in the suggestion forums, one day, something will be up to stop people who miss turns on purpose.


It is allowed...well..because you can't tell deadbeaters who have a real case where they had to miss a turn or a point-eater who want the advantage apart. Cheap tactic though, won't make you any friends.

[Nc_Hunt3r]

Heres the game if anyone wants to take a look..


418656



I'm not quitting yet.. I'll stick around for a little while because im still hooked.. But im sure this will get old soon =/

[freezie]

Really, blue just seems like a new recruit who barely know what he is doing...don't mind him.

[KennyC]

Start a turn and fail to deploy your troops before your time expires and you lose them, even if the site goes wonky and won't let you play. You also don't get a card, if that applies to your game.

This happened to me and a friend of mine recently, I did not get the card I deserved and my friend did not get his troops after turning in cards (the game archive was being fixed in the middle of my turn and the site went down). What really made me mad was that I was accused of letting my time expire so that I would not give an extra card to the player who eliminated me. This from a player who passed up no less than 5 previous opportunities to eliminate me, at this point I had no idea when he was planning growing a pair.

This penalty does not make sense when players are making honest attempts to make their turns on time. Can some one explain why this is in place, or is it just because a method for keeping track of undeployed troops and giving cards when deserved has not been programmed?

[SKETRS]

It's not hard to have someone take your turns for you if your going to miss. I'm with those that say miss a turn lose those guys. Shouldn't be any different than starting your turn and not deploying and losing them in 60 min. This site is losing it's appeal.

[debra79]

I can't remember the last time I actually played a game of CC where there wasn't at least one dead beater. I have two games going at the moment, of my four, where there are two in each game!!!! It's bl00dy frustrating as all hell!

Most of them time they're retarded n3wbies who had bad luck with the dice first round and decided that was that, and never came back. I think there should be a rule that if you're a n3wbie, you can't play in a game with anyone other than a n3wbie until you've completed 5 games.

Another gripe I have about this mental deadbeat bonus rule is that if you're in a doubles or triples game, the dead beater's armies go to their teammates. It gives the team who had the dead beater an extraordinary advantage. I know most of you will argue that the other team should have been concentrating on eliminating the dead beater before they missed three consecutive turns, but that's not always possible. Especially if you're trying to get a bonus, as well as fight off an opponent who already has a continent bonus.

/end gripe.

[freezie]

. I know most of you will argue that the other team should have been concentrating on eliminating the dead beater before they missed three consecutive turns, but that's not always possible.

Actually, kill off the opponent that s not deadbeating. Then when the deadbeat is gone, you win.