Battle for the Spice Islands

[thenobodies80]

[Moved] back to the foundry system per mapmaker request

Nobodies

[Kabanellas]

Hi Vaughn!

Good Job! I'm liking it, but I have just a small set of questions:

-Will fleets start neutral?
-How many neutrals will those 'Sea Passages' have?
-Ports will start neutral I guess, how many?
-Will the Spice Islands start neutral (this could meant a lot in terms of game-play, being that they're part of the objectives)*
*if not, I can predict every player focusing on that region, from the very start, to control that bottle-neck SP1)

It would be good to have a map with all neutral starters displayed

Also on the game-play part, If you control the spice islands you'll get 2 + 4 (from spices) = 6 bonus (+2 auto-deploys). It seems like an awful lot to control 1 entry. Furthermore, being the main part of the objective.

I like the idea of conditional borders to assault those fleets (If I correctly understood). But this might cause some issues too, at least in the way they're laid now. It will be VERY hard to control any of those entire regions. In particular, the Northwest, the Southwest and the Central regions (would like to see different names here ), which will disable any fleet assaults from those land regions. Again, players will only focus on controlling those fleets (considering that they don't start neutral), and I'm not seeing anyone dropping on mainland.

As for the graphics, I love it

just 3 small remarks:

-I'm not a big fan of those big sea line dots, they have a big presence on map. you could try reduce them and add some transparency.. maybe.
-I like those army circles ( but again, some transparency, would not hurt)
-Those Sea Passage icons - Do you think numbers will be visible over them? I'm not totally sure...

A personal thing now:
- The title font you've used, it somehow leads me to a more medieval/Celtic kind of map. Not feeling much 17/18 Century to me

keep on with the good work!
K

[vaughn03]

[vaughn03]

I'm sorry, it's really hard to pick this map up after so many times and people change, I get confused and forget what my intent was and what we've already gone over. Tried to read the threads and work it out. Also when this all started there could not be 12 players in a game, this has effected my ideas as to giving out balanced fleets at drop.

Here's the revisions - I dropped the Spice Island bonus and added one to Central - I think this was all requested/discussed in the past to be in line with the bonus calculator. Toned back sea attack and troop circles. Put the numbers on.

I know/expect this map to have bottlenecks and traps - I would like it to have those things but of course not if it makes game play stupid. I do want people to try and take the spice islands and achieve victory conditions, to me this is more historically in line - that's where the money was. At the same time I want it to be a good game and not tic-tak-toe.

Is koontz1973 still a cartographer?

[koontz1973]

Is koontz1973 still a cartographer?

I am and still looking at the map intently. Please forgive my quietness, I will go over everything this weekend and post some things, if any on Monday for you.

As for size of game, would you like to limit the map to a certain number of players? This can now be done very easily for you if you feel the map is too small or large for some games. Also, have a look at some settings, if you want to stop people playing this game with some settings, let me know and why not. If it fits the map and the other cartoes agree, we can do that also.

[vaughn03]

OK - Thanks Koontz. Also thanks Kabanellas - I was just asking about Koontz because he had spent so much time on this map.

I think I'm leaning towards limiting to 9 so that everyone will get a fleet to start. More if less players in a balanced fashion, yes?

I don't know if it will have a problem with some settings - I like to think not, but as we've discussed I usually play fogtrench with no or flat spoils. Don't be shy.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed.

[Kabanellas]

Hi Vaughn!

the problem with making the fleets starting positions, as they're now, is that some are directly connected, while others are 'protected' by SP regions (the case of DF2 and PF2). This can be an issue IMO, as they're not equally balanced. Of course that being so hard for ports to attack fleets doesn't help....

[vaughn03]

I'll look at it - thanks. I was looking at the ability to hold land and I didn't think it was that hard. Only so many ways in - which is what I like, for good or bad, to me it's more 'realistic'.

Also I thought about the continent names - not opposed to changing them - just don't know to what yet. Also I sort of thought it made it easy to figure map with the continents as directions i.e. 'southwest'.

Oh and the font - I guess I thought it looked like it could be dutch or european of that era? They were the dominate military force in this part of the world during this time. I'm open to suggestions but I kind of like it.

[vaughn03]

So I'm thinking... I play Napoleon map all the time and drops are certainly not fair.

Of course, I don't like it when I get screwed.

Do you have a suggestion?

Should I surround EVERY fleet with a Sea Passage?

Major Vaughn

[Kabanellas]

but on Napoleon you don't have starting positions. Regions are equally distributed by players.

On Conquer Rome and the Third Crusade, we have a mix of starting positions and distributable regions... something that you're considering here from what I understood.
Even so I think SP should directly connect each other

[vaughn03]

Even so I think SP should directly connect each other

Not sure what you mean.

Meaning I should add a SP on both sides of all ships? I think I can do that - sometimes it's a can o'worms. Maybe switch position of some SP with Fleets?

What else - are there other issues or is this close to moving forward?

Thanks

[Kabanellas]

Even so I think SP should directly connect each other

Sorry! I meant 'shouldn't'

[vaughn03]

OK - Please answer the other part and I'll get cracking - put SP's on both sides of ALL FLEETS? I'm pretty sure I can distribute them all in a more balanced manner - I think when I was placing them I was thinking more historically than game play. The mind wanders.

DUDE! Without you I probably would have to find another excuse to waste so many hours! Napoleon Europe is FAR AND AWAY my favorite map. I clicked on your sig and saw your first draft and thought WOW this guy can make a map --->>> Third Crusade is really good too I'm playing a great game right now. I can't figure out Conquer Rome and am scared of it now

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Vaughn!! I appreciate it .. and sorry for being the cause of so many wasted hours....

As for the fleets, I think that adding 'sea passages' between them could definitely help. Btw, can fleets assault ports?

[vaughn03]

I'm almost done with a rework - I can see the problems, I think you are probably right it would be a cluster f--> I'll post a map later and you can tell me what's wrong with it.

THanks.

[vaughn03]

What do you think boss?

NEW CHANGES: Changes to Legend/Rules. Moved Fleets and Sea Passages to promote balanced play. Dropped one territory - Niew Brittian.

Changed the names of the Continents to Dutch? Maybe it just makes more confusing? Can go back or still open to suggestions.

[Kabanellas]

Seems better now. There's just this thing about those 'starting position' Fleets that leaves me uncomfortable:

some of them can assault ports while others don't right?


some 17th contemporary font suggestion, for tittle purposes:

http://www.dafont.com/washington-text.font

http://www.dafont.com/cardinal.font

http://www.1001fonts.com/menuetto-font.html

http://www.dafont.com/labrit.font

[vaughn03]

Ah - true. It looks to me the only one that can't is DF3 - so I'll move SF1 farther up the coast of Sumatra and move DF3 and SP7 west and make a sea attack of DF3 to Batavia.

What else?

Thanks

[Kabanellas]

Yes DF3...

Still, I'd rather start on SF2 which gives access to 3 lesser ports, than start on PF3 (for instances) that gives access to just 1 (and shared with PF2) lesser port.

This might be an issue.....

[vaughn03]

Agreed. I have better starting places on Napoleon Europe as well. But I still love the map. Do you have a suggestion? With all due respect.

Just saw your fonts - I'll look - thanks.

[iancanton]

Changed the names of the Continents to Dutch? Maybe it just makes more confusing? Can go back or still open to suggestions.

dutch directional names are no better than english ones, i'm afraid! i suggest more descriptive names such as asia, south sunda, north sunda and oceania.

try to avoid using the name of a whole island for a region that makes up only part of it. u have done this for sumatra (maybe palembang is appropriate - see the link below) and borneo.

http://melayuonline.com/eng/history/dig/389

the brown bonus ought to be reduced from +4 to avoid an easy place for someone to sit and stack, since there appears to be only one way in, via pot mosbi.

siam, not burma, ought to extend to both sides of the pensinsula and border malaka. not only is this historically more accurate, but also makes the bangkok army count a bit clearer.

ian.

[Dukasaur]

Once again, I'm sorry but I don't understand why it has to be so big.

The foundry used to have size rules so that maps would fit on one screen. Scrolling around really is a pain in the ass. There seems to be plenty of white space on the map, so I don't know why it couldn't have been compressed a bit to fit on one screen without any loss of legibility.

It just seems nowadays size exceptions are granted with no rhyme or reason.

[vaughn03]

It's too small for my screen - why don't they make the 'small' map and the 'large' map under the 'map size' button Big and Small instead of almost the same size?

Anyways - the size for this map was approved long ago. Thanks.

Ian - I agree with you and will revise accordingly.

[iAmCaffeine]

I like it overall. The yellow troops are very hard to see in Zuidwest though, and the slate isn't ideal on the grey background either.

[vaughn03]

I'll look at that - and hopefully get an edit in soon. Back in Indo but brought map and a fast computer.

Thank you.