[Official] D&D Mafia ~ Endgame

[edocsil]

Anam, clearly it was a mistake. No, I am not going to recount it, because

A: It doesn't mater
B: It's a total waste of my time, that day is over
C: If there are vote shenanigans going on the result is almost always a ???
D: Every single VC has had a minor mistake in it. I have a very hard time doing them accurately, and I'm not sure why. I go through the posts line by line and then double check them once I'm done. I typically do the VCs at night once I get be from class and I tend to have a few beers. It likely doesn't help accuracy.

Anyhow, scene time.

Davmorn Loyalar was a loyal and law abiding paladin so when he saw he saw the alignment of the new Ranger he was consumed by a holy wrath and picked up his hammer. With a mighty swing he brought it down on the back of Iangeon Swordhand's unsuspecting head.

Safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger has been daykilled.
15 alive 8 to hang.

[rishaed]

well the infighting didn't take that long. One confirmed lawful (good?) char, who just murdured someone....

[MoB Deadly]

So now..........

I have to survive until the end of the game AND Davmorn Loyalar must be dead by any means in order for me to win.

[edocsil]

well the infighting didn't take that long. One confirmed lawful (good?) char, who just murdured someone....

Yeah. I never counted on this many power roles to be dead before the d2 lynch.

[Epitaph1]

I'm still catching up--at least a few pages behind. I'm not sure how my vote on jonty came up as suspicious to SW as I stated more than once that I didn't believe his claim. It was more than his unblockable kill that made him seem chaotic to me and I put that on the record (which he quoted).

I will try to catch the rest of the way up as soon as I can.

[TheForgivenOne]

Jumpin Jahosaphets. I fall asleep for 1 night and all sorts of shenanigans occur.

[anamainiacks]

What in the world just happened... I believed MoB at the end of page 30, then I saw the Day Kill on page 31... Guess we can at least know for sure that MoB is a Mason. Can we please leave the Lawful-Chaotic infighting till later in the game? We have bigger fish to fry at this point.

Anyway here's what we have so far:

Roles/Claims
1. gregwolf121 ~ Elian Duskwalker ~ Watcher ~ Good/Neutral Elf Ranger
2. MoB Deadly ~ ??? ~ Mason with safariguy5; Davmorn Loyalar must be dead for him to win ~ ???/???
3. ??? ~ Davmorn Loyalar ~ at least 1 DK ~ ???/Lawful ??? Paladin
4. TheForgivenOne - Roleblocked N1

Dead
1. betiko ~ Nerisella Rubymace ~ Cop ~ Good/Neutral Dwarf Rogue - Modkilled D1
2. jonty125 ~ Jamorin Lightouch ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Gnome Rogue (claimed Neutral/Lawful Gnome Regional Traveler) - Lynched D1
3. new guy1 ~ Yenhand Silverkin ~ ???/??? - NKed N1
4. safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT (2 BP vests, NK, track, investigate); Mason with MoB Deadly ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger - DKed by Davmorn Loyalar D2

[strike wolf]

What in the world just happened... I believed MoB at the end of page 30, then I saw the Day Kill on page 31... Guess we can at least know for sure that MoB is a Mason. Can we please leave the Lawful-Chaotic infighting till later in the game? We have bigger fish to fry at this point.

Agreed, fighting at this point is most likely just going to help E/C. That being said, I don't blame day killing safari...honestly, I had all but pegged him as the Cult recruiter reading the statements and I can see how a lawful thought it was a good use of ability but yeah. Let's focus on the cult right now.

Anyway here's what we have so far:

Roles/Claims
1. gregwolf121 ~ Elian Duskwalker ~ Watcher ~ Good/Neutral Elf Ranger
2. MoB Deadly ~ ??? ~ Mason with safariguy5; Davmorn Loyalar must be dead for him to win ~ ???/???
3. ??? ~ Davmorn Loyalar ~ at least 1 DK ~ ???/Lawful ??? Paladin
4. TheForgivenOne - Roleblocked N1

Dead
1. betiko ~ Nerisella Rubymace ~ Cop ~ Good/Neutral Dwarf Rogue - Modkilled D1
2. jonty125 ~ Jamorin Lightouch ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Gnome Rogue (claimed Neutral/Lawful Gnome Regional Traveler) - Lynched D1
3. new guy1 ~ Yenhand Silverkin ~ ???/??? - NKed N1
4. safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT (2 BP vests, NK, track, investigate); Mason with MoB Deadly ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger - DKed by Davmorn Loyalar D2

This mess just keeps getting messier...need more than a broom to clean it up.

@epitaph: I mentioned all who had directly questioned the Unblockable kill. You can note that I stated that some of those that I had investigated had not struck me as scummy and I had mentioned you more as a safe lynch for lesser activity.

[StubbsKVM]

Baldur's Gate-wise, Paladins are always Lawful Good.
Not sure it's the same in D&D.

[Commander9]

Saf has a NK as well, so not necessarily...

Sort of moot now, but I just assumed opposites. Not necessarily true, but I don't think they'd have same abilities.

If he thought he was being watched, and claims a roleblock, that sets up the cult recruiter as a town roleblocker in the eyes of town. I have tried a very similar move.

Also, why am I shy?

Agreed, there are very various strategies all WIFOM mostly.

Shy? You don't really post that much and mostly short one-liners. Doesn't mean much as it's not unusual for you, but all input is welcomed.

@ MoB - I actually thought it was quite possible he'd be the cult recruiter and safari his goon, but it's also moot now. We do have another character roughly confirmed, however.

Agreed, fighting at this point is most likely just going to help E/C. That being said, I don't blame day killing safari...honestly, I had all but pegged him as the Cult recruiter reading the statements and I can see how a lawful thought it was a good use of ability but yeah. Let's focus on the cult right now.

This. There's going to be plenty of time to sort out "lawful" versus "chaotic" - cult is number one priority, the other evil guys are the 2nd priority.

Baldur's Gate-wise, Paladins are always Lawful Good.
Not sure it's the same in D&D.

Correct. Unless Paladins are lawfully good, they lose all of their abilities and can't do anything, so the kill was done by a LAWFULLY GOOD character which indicates town.

[MoB Deadly]

Correct. Unless Paladins are lawfully good, they lose all of their abilities and can't do anything, so the kill was done by a LAWFULLY GOOD character which indicates town.

A Lawfully Good paladin who is suspect to cult recruitment at any time unfortunately.

[Epitaph1]

Ok, I'm caught up.

Re: Mob.

MoB has not tripped my scumdar at all this game, even during the NL saga. I found that wagon to be as contrived as they come and thought that would be a good place to start looking for weak votes going into today (See below).

Now, it appears that he is confirmed mason at the least, but idk if it's too much to assume his alignment is the same as saf's (N/C). Although, I don't think it's worth prying into his alignment now that we've confirmed at least part of his role. The only way it's worth pursuing is if we believe MoB was recruited, and I haven't found a reason to think that's the case.

Re: TFO

I also have not found TFO's play this game to be scummy. I understand that he volunteered information twice--role info re: cult and the roleblock--but I don't find that incriminating, although the wisdom is apparently up for debate (I'm of the opinion that it wasn't a bad play).

Yeah, I know this is WIFOMy, but I would suspect that the existence of a watcher is enough to deter a recruiter from TFO on N1 considering that no other claims were still alive going into N1 and TFO was the only one who had soft claimed something about his role (unless I'm forgetting another soft claim).

I assume when people refer to "treating the disease rather than the symptoms" they are referring to pursuing a different case other than TFO. Of course we would rather treat the disease if we can prevent the spread of infection, I think that goes without saying. Either way, I don't think TFO is worth pressuring any more at this point.

Re: Stubbs

SW's observations on Stubbs lead me to vote for him, but someone mentioned this is how he always plays. So, I'll refrain from voting for the moment.

Re: Votes on MoB

As I said above, I found this wagon to be weak as hell. We were clearly looking at a lynch jonty or bust situation at the point when MoB voted and people acted like this was a huge scum slip. Gimme a break.
The final VC on MoB was aage, newguy, DoomYoshi, jonty, Saf. 3 of those people are dead, leaving DY and aage. In retrospect, Saf's vote is the most perplexing, but whatever.

If I had more time now, I would start combing through DY and aage's posts. But I don't have more time atm.

fp'd

[Commander9]

A Lawfully Good paladin who is suspect to cult recruitment at any time unfortunately.

Aren't we all, tho? In a way, it's great that he's not known so he could possibly use his ability again (assuming non 1-shot) to execute with good judgement, but a recruited day killer.. Yeah, ugh.

The problem with cult, especially with tomorrow coming, is that you never know who you can trust. Example:

X, Y, Z have been very active and pro-town experienced players, but a cult recruiter A recruits Y. How does town knows it's not being guided towards a mislynch or manipulated? How do you find out that it was Y that was recruited without a cop? Especially with our investigative roles out (or being close to being out?), our best hopes lie with tracking and watching. If the watcher/tracker can predict the likely recruits then we can still pull it off. I would have some ideas about that, but I think they'd probably misfire and hurt the town more, so I'll say that whatever is left from investigative roles should be very careful and try to get inside of cult's head and try to think who'd they recruit.

Anyways, to start moving and considering our options, I guess that eliminates MoB from my list, which means that Stubbs is the last person that I'm willing to vote as of now, although his case is even weaker than Safari/MoB, so I'll wait for other people's input (pressuring some of the inactives a bit for the input may not be bad either as at least a few are scummarying from the ones I mentioned).

[safariguy5]

Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!

Gl whoever's on my side.

[strike wolf]

Wow, Safari, I'm not even sure where you're going with this. You are saying that because TFO claims a roleblock, that he was in fact recruited instead? I don't follow this logic. If he was recruited, doesn't he just say nothing about his power? Or are you saying that he was afraid that after being recruited, Greg might have been watching him, and therefore instead of cult recruiter being outted, it's simply a town roleblocker?

Why not?

If he thought he was being watched, and claims a roleblock, that sets up the cult recruiter as a town roleblocker in the eyes of town. I have tried a very similar move.

Also, why am I shy?

That may have made some sense if greg hadnt already announced that no one had visited his target.

[DoomYoshi]

Wow, Safari, I'm not even sure where you're going with this. You are saying that because TFO claims a roleblock, that he was in fact recruited instead? I don't follow this logic. If he was recruited, doesn't he just say nothing about his power? Or are you saying that he was afraid that after being recruited, Greg might have been watching him, and therefore instead of cult recruiter being outted, it's simply a town roleblocker?

Why not?

If he thought he was being watched, and claims a roleblock, that sets up the cult recruiter as a town roleblocker in the eyes of town. I have tried a very similar move.

Also, why am I shy?

That may have made some sense if greg hadnt already announced that no one had visited his target.

Ok, you are right, good point. I guess I don't have to defend safariguy's train of thought anymore since he is dead.

[aage]

A daykiller in an official game?



Anyway, the whole Saf recruiter theory can be thrown out of the window now. In that case I revert to believing the watcher to have been recruited. Obvious safe goon for the CL. We're not going to lynch him any time soon, and he's not going to out the CL.

MoB would have to have some alignment which is able to win with Saf. Could still be evil neutral but I doubt it. He's trying to make Saf's killer look bad but that's to be expected. The killer might even be bad; assuming Saf's claim was truthful, he had a pretty powerful role.
I'm thrown off by the explicit flavour of the scene. Why mention it was a lawful character killing Saf? To whom is the Paladin "loyal"? Why the wording: "he was consumed by a holy wrath"? This daykill does not look voluntary.

The reason I voted for him at the end of day 1 was because he did not represent the mentality any good/neutral aligned player should have while the cult is still playing. Comb through my posts if you want, I'm sure you'll find something. My day 1 play was edging on horrible.

[gregwolf121]

well i'm gone for a few hours and look what happens, to be honest i wasn't expecting saf to die, right now i don't have any strong suspects, well i don't even really have weak ones so no suspects.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Also, I'd like to get a bit more input and contributions from some of our shy colleagues over there, namely Yoshi, epitaph, neb, dazza, skillful and Rodion/Mob (to a lesser extent).

I have been posting once per night after work. While I do read throughout the day, I won't be posting much more than once per day (I hate posting on my phone). In fact, I had just posted 3.5 hours before you calling me shy...but, whatevs. Here's my post for the day...

What in the world just happened... I believed MoB at the end of page 30, then I saw the Day Kill on page 31... Guess we can at least know for sure that MoB is a Mason. Can we please leave the Lawful-Chaotic infighting till later in the game? We have bigger fish to fry at this point.

Anyway here's what we have so far:

Roles/Claims
1. gregwolf121 ~ Elian Duskwalker ~ Watcher ~ Good/Neutral Elf Ranger
2. MoB Deadly ~ ??? ~ Mason with safariguy5; Davmorn Loyalar must be dead for him to win ~ ???/???
3. ??? ~ Davmorn Loyalar ~ at least 1 DK ~ ???/Lawful ??? Paladin
4. TheForgivenOne - Roleblocked N1

Dead
1. betiko ~ Nerisella Rubymace ~ Cop ~ Good/Neutral Dwarf Rogue - Modkilled D1
2. jonty125 ~ Jamorin Lightouch ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Gnome Rogue (claimed Neutral/Lawful Gnome Regional Traveler) - Lynched D1
3. new guy1 ~ Yenhand Silverkin ~ ???/??? - NKed N1
4. safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT (2 BP vests, NK, track, investigate); Mason with MoB Deadly ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger - DKed by Davmorn Loyalar D2

Thank you for the recap Anamaniacks...however, the Mason part of Safariguy's claim is, in fact, not confirmed.

Safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger has been daykilled.
15 alive 8 to hang.

Show me where "Mason" is listed? In fact, this would lead me to believe that they were not masons. In fact, you could almost say that Jonty and Safariguy, being of the same alignment might be on the same team. You could then deduce that MoB is of the same alignment, and that all Neutral/Chaotics (all chaotics, in fact) were out to kill the Lawful/Good player (now known as Davmorn Loyalar). Why? Because they cannot win with a Good/Lawful alignment...not because he's a threat to all of us. He is just a threat to the Neutral/Chaotics. MoB's only chance to win is to kill the Good/Lawful aligned character(s?). What this does do, in all likelihood, is contribute to the fact that MoB is NOT the recruiter. Therefore, I will not vote for him...but neither will I help him kill the Paladin. What I can't figure is if they are all a loosely affiliated "mafia" in this game...which I can't make a case for or against. (I still lean toward the ?/Evils being mafia.)

Correct. Unless Paladins are lawfully good, they lose all of their abilities and can't do anything, so the kill was done by a LAWFULLY GOOD character which indicates town.

A Lawfully Good paladin who is suspect to cult recruitment at any time unfortunately.

Using a terrible argument to try to turn us against the Paladin? Anyone can be recruited. Like I said, I won't go after MoB, but he has to focus on finding the Evil/Chaotic, and let go of the Paladin for now.

I think the Paladin made the right choice. Saf just wasn't adding up, and still doesn't add up. If he was going to take a shot at one player who was suspicious enough to be the recruiter, it was Saf.

Why I didn't have a vote at the end of the day? If I remember my thought process correctly I didn't like either case, and after re-reading that there would be a lynch with the most votes I didn't see a way for the No lynch to make a rally to catch up. Hence me not voting.

Probably a reason for jonty to lie about being chaotic, would be he saw it as an instant lynch. I know I would have jumped on that pretty quickly overall, as many others would. IMO Chaotic seems to me to be mafia based, maybe that should be evil. Now that I start to really separate the 2 classes I come to the opposite opinion that chaotic can't be controlled, and they will be doing as they wish.

I disagree with stubs being mafia based off of SW's case. I just played a game with him and he had the same posting pattern. Yes it drove me crazy, but bringing experience from the play style it is the same.

Does this mean that Skillfusniper33 will be going after MoB, who is likely Neutral/Chaotic? Interesting choice of words here.


The problem with a player playing like Safariguy did, is that he attracts so much attention that not much else is allowed to develop. I've read through the cases provided by Strike Wolf, and none of them seem that great. My gut was Aage more than Stubbs, but I can't make a real good case on either of them...or anyone else at this point.

[anamainiacks]

Thank you for the recap Anamaniacks...however, the Mason part of Safariguy's claim is, in fact, not confirmed.

Safariguy5 ~ Iangeon Swordhand ~ JOAT ~ Neutral/Chaotic Half-Elf Ranger has been daykilled.
15 alive 8 to hang.

Show me where "Mason" is listed? In fact, this would lead me to believe that they were not masons.

If they weren't truly Masons, why would MoB bother confirming their Masonry? He'd instead believe Saf to be lying about his alignment and get the rest of us to throw our votes on him. There is far too much detail about their Masonry for me to say it was all a lie (details of their conversation, etc). The possibility is definitely still out there, but I think chances are slim.

What I can't figure is if they are all a loosely affiliated "mafia" in this game...which I can't make a case for or against. (I still lean toward the ?/Evils being mafia.)

Hadn't we sort of come to a consensus on D1 that E/L and E/N are our mafia, and E/C is the cult?

I think the Paladin made the right choice. Saf just wasn't adding up, and still doesn't add up. If he was going to take a shot at one player who was suspicious enough to be the recruiter, it was Saf.

I disagree. I understand where he's coming from if he thought that Saf was the Cult Leader, but he could have waited till more details and information had turned up. I'll admit that I too thought Saf might have been the Cult Leader and MoB the Cultist, but there wasn't enough solid evidence to say this, and their responses would've been useful in determining the validity of the train of thought. So yea, I think the kill was premature; it's not like the day was going to end soon.

[strike wolf]

Pretty much agreeing with everything Anamaniacks said. If they weren't masons it would have been a big stretch for Saf to say it and I can't see any good reason why he did.

I may take another look into Aage. He hasn't really given me scum vibes that much but with as many people seeming to feel he's scummy it is possible I missed something.

[DoomYoshi]

Pretty much agreeing with everything Anamaniacks said. If they weren't masons it would have been a big stretch for Saf to say it and I can't see any good reason why he did.

I may take another look into Aage. He hasn't really given me scum vibes that much but with as many people seeming to feel he's scummy it is possible I missed something.

Safariguy isn't a "mason" though.

[aage]

Pretty much agreeing with everything Anamaniacks said. If they weren't masons it would have been a big stretch for Saf to say it and I can't see any good reason why he did.

I may take another look into Aage. He hasn't really given me scum vibes that much but with as many people seeming to feel he's scummy it is possible I missed something.

Safariguy isn't a "mason" though.

Then why claim it, it's the only bit of his role we haven't had confirmed and all other evidence supports it. It's not confirmed, but it's highly likely.

[DoomYoshi]

Neither saf nor MoB voted jonty. The Chaotic Neutrals are probably the "mafia".

Stubbz does have a double vote. Both were counted.

I smell fish.

vote stubbz

[anamainiacks]

Neither saf nor MoB voted jonty. The Chaotic Neutrals are probably the "mafia".

But jonty and saf voted for MoB. So does the logic still hold? And if you think they're the "mafia" why not vote for MoB now and eliminate 3 "mafia"?

Stubbz does have a double vote. Both were counted.

I smell fish.

vote stubbz

It was a mistake, see the following posts. Skimming much?

Jonty (7) ~ Newguy, Epitaph, tfo, stubbs, Dazza, Neb, Stubbs
Mob (5)~ aage, newguy, DoomYoshi, jonty, Saf
No Lynch (3) ~ mob, rishaed, Gregwolf

Those VC's are as accurate as I can get them. Sometimes I miss a vote, and then I go back and edit them when I am told.

Well, I have no double vote. I suppose that was a mistake on edoc's behalf.

All this doesn't add up... and what Stubbs is saying directly contradicts edoc. Sorry to bug you edoc, but can we can confirmation on the Day 1 VC again?

Anam, clearly it was a mistake. No, I am not going to recount it, because

A: It doesn't mater
B: It's a total waste of my time, that day is over
C: If there are vote shenanigans going on the result is almost always a ???
D: Every single VC has had a minor mistake in it. I have a very hard time doing them accurately, and I'm not sure why. I go through the posts line by line and then double check them once I'm done. I typically do the VCs at night once I get be from class and I tend to have a few beers. It likely doesn't help accuracy.

And still would like this answered:

If you were cult, who would you want on your team?

In other news, vote TFO since now I am dying to know what the action from last night is.

I'm confused - how does voting for TFO increase the chances of knowing what the action is? If you're referring to TFO's action, it wouldn't have been performed, since he was supposedly roleblocked, no?

In all, you seem to be throwing your vote around for pretty weak reasons today... FOS DoomYoshi.