XML Modifications and Variations

ericwdhs · Post by **ericwdhs** » Thu May 10, 2007 9:57 pm

DiM wrote:actualy i'm not too fond of this idea. i think the army fonts should be the same as they might cause confusion for new players.

Well, you probably have a good point, but what's confusing about them? They will still be colored according to player and be the only real numbers on the map... I'm sure some map makers would like numbers that match their maps.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:45 am

ericwdhs wrote:
DiM wrote:actualy i'm not too fond of this idea. i think the army fonts should be the same as they might cause confusion for new players.
Well, you probably have a good point, but what's confusing about them? They will still be colored according to player and be the only real numbers on the map... I'm sure some map makers would like numbers that match their maps.

yep i'd love to set some pirate style fonts for the army numbers on my map but basicaly the army numbers are the only thing that stays the same on all maps the rest just changes, they are probably that touch of familiarity that helps people accept new maps and get comfortable with them. i don't know if that's true. it's just my opinion.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:50 pm

ericwdhs wrote:I haven't looked really well, but this may have already been suggested. Indeed if it hasn't, I'll be surprised.

Suggestion Idea: Different Army Number Font Styles and Sizes

Description: Map makers will be able to specify from a list of available fonts for their maps within the XML files. Example:
Code: Select all
<numbers><font size="7" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"></numbers>
This probably isn't how you would do it, but it shouldn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Why It Should Be Considered: The army number pixel font we use now just doesn't fit a lot of the maps. It's also very limiting on what size territories can be created. The army numbers could easily be about half their current size and still be readable. They could also be something completely different (Comic Sans, Arial, Times New Roman, Console, whatever fits). I'm not sure what format the current numbers are, either text or image (possibly for the different colors and black outline), but either way, this shouldn't really be too hard to implement. If you use text, you just have to make sure you have them in your system. If you use images for the numbers, drawing them would be the only part that may take some time but I'm sure many people would be happy to spend a few minutes and add more fonts to your cache.

Lack Label (Mod Use):

The only challenge with this is that a font specified might not be carried on a viewers computer, and unless the code embeds the font, it could be a prob.

Bodmanbod · Post by **Bodmanbod** » Fri May 11, 2007 2:20 pm

yeah, people would be limited to fonts like arial and times new roman etc so the fonts work...

ericwdhs · Post by **ericwdhs** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:41 pm

cairnswk wrote:The only challenge with this is that a font specified might not be carried on a viewers computer, and unless the code embeds the font, it could be a prob.

Do you know what font is used now? I don't recognize it and I don't think I have it. (I've browsed through all of mine to make sure.) I think that means they are embedded. I think the black outline pretty much has to make it embedded.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:31 am

TO CHOOSE WHERE YOU LAY YOUR ARMIES
[No]

For example every tetority gets 1 army and then u get to choose where u deploy them...THis eradicates players having really good starting positions that puts them in control from the beginning of the game.

Also Fog of War
[No]

I think its on the things to do and i like IT. Espically good for assain games

Also think someone mentioned it Castle Risk with diplomats and flags and what have you

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:37 am

i suggested multiple map images in the first post.

now i need:

1. dice modifiers:
*number of dice
*+/- points for the dice
[No]

2. automatic pms sent to the players. i need this for the RPG map for quests and stuff.
plus it would be good for the maps with extensive explanations on the gameplay. especially with the new xml modifications it would be neat to get a pm that explains everything.
[No]

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:59 am

Special troops movement

also i need two more things for this project. to recreate the movement of the heroes i need special attacks. meaning you attack from zone A to zone B with 10 troops. you conquer zone B without losses and move everything there without leaving 1 troops behind. now you have zone B with 10 troops and zone A neutral with 1 troop or even 0 depending if that zone is considered a regenerating zone for monsters.
[No]

Card Settings

i also need the cards to be different. instead of the cards having the territory names, the card names will be taken from a special set list in the xml and they will be resources for spells. the spell recipies will be in the xml but they will be hidden. it's up to the player to discover combinations. try toad slime and eye of nute and you might get nothing but wait one more turn and get lizard tongue and you'll create Lizard imunity meaning for the next 3 turns you'll get +1 at dice when you attack lizards. this would be really neat.
also i need to set the chances for each card occuring. for example extremly powerfull spells should be scarce, and some resources should be found on only some maps.
[No]

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:29 am

Wow, there are a whole lot of great suggestions here! Thanks to all of you for sharing your ideas. Sorry it took me a while to address them, I am still catching up from my vacation!

I need to consider the benefit as well as the cost, so instead of assessing them based on difficulty I've decided to skip a step and mark each proposal [Yes], [Maybe], or [No]. I only want to pick the very best proposals so I can get the changes done in a week or two. I marked as [No] anything that is not really related to map XML (e.g. war fog), requires radical change to the game engine (e.g. changing the way dice work) or is simply not worth the effort in my opinion. To save time I didn't write explanations put please post any questions here about the assessments and I'll answer.

So I would like to go ahead with these proposals:

Starting Neutral Territories (e.g. Ethiopia starts with 6 neutral armies)

Code: Select all

<country>
<name>Ethiopia</name>
<borders>
  <border>Somalia</border>
  <border>Kenya</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
  <smallx>424</smallx>
  <smally>213</smally>
  <largex>569</largex>
  <largey>277</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>6</neutral>
</country>

Final Objective (e.g. win the game by conquering the west coast)

Code: Select all

<continent>
...
</continent>
<objective>
  <name>West Coast</name>
  <components>
     <component>Burkina Faso</component>
     <component>Benin</component>
     <component>Ghana</component>
     <component>Liberia</component>
     <component>Guinea</component>
     <component>Senegal</component>
     <component>Mauritania</component>
     <component>Western Sahara</component>
     <component>Morocco</component>
  </components>
</objective>
<country>
...
</country>

Territorial Bonus (e.g. Ethiopia gets a +2 bonus each round, negative numbers also allowed)

Code: Select all

<country>
<name>Ethiopia</name>
<borders>
  <border>Somalia</border>
  <border>Kenya</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
  <smallx>424</smallx>
  <smally>213</smally>
  <largex>569</largex>
  <largey>277</largey>
</coordinates>
<bonus>2</bonus>
</country>

And here are the maybes, with my concerns:

Troop Limit and Non-Deployable Territories - I like these but there is an issue where you have a bunch of armies to deploy and nowhere to put them.

Variable XML - The map image, borders, etc.. can change over time, triggered by round or conquerage of a key territory or continent. I'm not sure how this would best be implemented (though I know I want it done in one file, not many files). I'm leaning towards putting this concept off for the next round of XML changes.

Army Grant Formula - Not too big on this because it messes with basic gameplay instructions. How badly do we really want it?

Ranged Attacks - I also like this but I can't decide whether the successful attack should (a) leave 1 neutral or (b) 1 of your colour in the bombed territory?

Non-Attack, Non-Fortify borders - Interesting, but not sure what the XML should look like, or how badly we need this. There may be some overlap with Ranged Attacks here.

(please post your input on the above ideas if you have any)

Honourable mentions:

Paratroopers - this is an idea I'd like to see in a map, but I think it can be done already by making a country with 1-way borders to everywhere.

Starting Scenarios - I'd like to do this someday, but not this round. Scenarious might be doable in separate files from the map XML, by different authors.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:33 pm

i actually am pretty disappointed. 90% of the ideas were marked [NO] and those few that were marked [Yes] are actually the simplest ones.

while i do understand the reasons i can't help being disappointed.

it's like telling a kid he can have anything for Christmas and after he wishes for a pony you get him a rubber duck saying this is the only thing you could get for the 5$ you had in your pocket.

so many great ideas marked no

edit// i still have hope for the maybe ideas.

* Starting Neutral Territories (e.g. Ethiopia starts with 6 neutral armies)

this is a good one. could prove rather useful in setting some neutral barriers.
or for those key terits that give bonuses.
nice addition.

* Final Objective (e.g. win the game by conquering the west coast)

this is also interesting but unless the objective can be random from several scenarios it's not really that usefull. playing a game over and over again for the same objective is kinda boring. different objectives for each player or at least a common objective that is changed with each game could be much better.

* Territorial Bonus (e.g. Ethiopia gets a +2 bonus each round, negative numbers also allowed)

i don't really see the addition here. this was already possible. just define that terit as a continent with a bonus. the only improvement is that you need less lines of code.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:41 pm

lack you should make a new sticky for the ideas you have completed

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:46 pm

Suggestion Idea: mixing countrys(didn't know a better name)

Description: You can set how much countries of a continent each player can have by in the beginning (like you can only have 2 countries in ocenia and 4 in europe) or just so that a player doesn't get the whole continent in the beginning

Why It Should Be Considered: players always say: i hate it when someone got a whole continent in the beginning

Lack Label (Mod Use): [No]

glee · Post by **glee** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:19 pm

Suggestion Idea: Overruling continent bonus

Description: The idea is to have continent bonuses based on different criterias where the lesser criterea is overruled by one that gives a greater bonus. (See example below)

Why It Should Be Considered: The idea came up because of an idea about a poker map consisting of cards spread out on a table. You get your bonus from your best five card poker hand. To make this possible without the bonuses getting rediciously high one continent bonus has to take out an other one. Along with the suggestion about holding x territories out of y possible it would be possible to use this idea for a map.

I'm sure other ways of using this new feature will come up.

Lack Label (Mod Use): [Maybe]

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:21 pm

glee wrote:Suggestion Idea: Overruling continent bonus

Description: The idea is to have continent bonuses based on different criterias where the lesser criterea is overruled by one that gives a greater bonus. (See example below)

Why It Should Be Considered: The idea came up because of an idea about a poker map consisting of cards spread out on a table. You get your bonus from your best five card poker hand. To make this possible without the bonuses getting rediciously high one continent bonus has to take out an other one. Along with the suggestion about holding x territories out of y possible it would be possible to use this idea for a map.

I'm sure other ways of using this new feature will come up.

Lack Label (Mod Use):

what if i don't get it?

Lone.prophet · Post by **Lone.prophet** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:49 pm

mobilisation

for any land you control,you get 1 army every turn, or second turn, or third turn. on the specific country

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:18 pm

lackattack wrote: And here are the maybes, with my concerns:

Ranged Attacks - I also like this but I can't decide whether the successful attack should (a) leave 1 neutral or (b) 1 of your colour in the bombed territory?

Honourable mentions:

Starting Scenarios - I'd like to do this someday, but not this round. Scenarious might be doable in separate files from the map XML, by different authors.

-with ranged attacks you gotta go with leaving 1 neutral...it just makes sense. ranged attacks shouldnt end in you being able to advance through that path, even if it is during the next turn. you should basically just be able to break continents with them...

-starting scenarios is my personal favorite, mainly because it removes a lot of the luck from the game, which i like. if not now, i hope you can implement this later.

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:37 pm

Sorry to disappoint you DiM, but I think your ideas are unrealistic. We have to nail down some basics before we get to the fancy stuff. Also, I like to keep the game as simple as possible, if you haven't noticed

DiM wrote:* Territorial Bonus (e.g. Ethiopia gets a +2 bonus each round, negative numbers also allowed)

i don't really see the addition here. this was already possible. just define that terit as a continent with a bonus. the only improvement is that you need less lines of code.

There is a big difference. The bonus always goes on Ethiopia!

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:43 pm

i like prophets idea..

In my younger years i used to play risk with my sister and the bonus armies we got for the continent had to be deployed in the continent we got them for.

Can this be done lack?

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:44 pm

Oh, I forgot a [Yes]... Collections (a.k.a. X for Y bonus)

Code: Select all

<continent>
...
</continent>
<collection>
  <name>Power Plants</name>
  <components>
     <component>Burkina Faso</component>
     <component>Benin</component>
     <component>Ghana</component>
     <component>Liberia</component>
     <component>Guinea</component>
     <component>Senegal</component>
     <component>Mauritania</component>
     <component>Western Sahara</component>
     <component>Morocco</component>
  </components>
  <bonuses>
     <bonus quantity="3">1</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="6">3</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="9">5</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="12">7</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="15">10</bonus>
  </bonuses>
</collection>
<country>
...
</country>

Not sure if this is the most elegant way to do it...

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:53 pm

lackattack wrote:Sorry to disappoint you DiM, but I think your ideas are unrealistic. We have to nail down some basics before we get to the fancy stuff. Also, I like to keep the game as simple as possible, if you haven't noticed

i know i'm a dreamer and sometimes i take things to extremes but other people had great ideas that you turned down not just me. really neat ideas

and yes i felt this whole simplicity thing on my aom map

i frankly don't understand why people settle for less when they could have more.

why not have more options? why not have more complex games? why not?

if it is technically impossible i understand. heck i'd even understand if you say you prefer to go out and have a beer instead of tweaking the game engine, it's your choice but i don't get the "whole let's keep it simple" thing.

don't get me wrong, simple is good, but complex should also be available as an option.
heck i'll enjoy a classic fast and furious RT game, but i'd also enjoy a theory of relativity map where instead of rolling dice you solve scientific problems.

lackattack wrote:
DiM wrote:* Territorial Bonus (e.g. Ethiopia gets a +2 bonus each round, negative numbers also allowed)

i don't really see the addition here. this was already possible. just define that terit as a continent with a bonus. the only improvement is that you need less lines of code.
There is a big difference. The bonus always goes on Ethiopia!

oh, i get it. then it is a nice one but still nothing fancy

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:10 pm

lackattack wrote:Oh, I forgot a [Yes]... Collections (a.k.a. X for Y bonus)

Code: Select all

<continent>
...
</continent>
<collection>
  <name>Power Plants</name>
  <components>
     <component>Burkina Faso</component>
     <component>Benin</component>
     <component>Ghana</component>
     <component>Liberia</component>
     <component>Guinea</component>
     <component>Senegal</component>
     <component>Mauritania</component>
     <component>Western Sahara</component>
     <component>Morocco</component>
  </components>
  <bonuses>
     <bonus quantity="3">1</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="6">3</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="9">5</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="12">7</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="15">10</bonus>
  </bonuses>
</collection>
<country>
...
</country>

Not sure if this is the most elegant way to do it...

explain it like in the others with e.g. i don't know what it is now

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:12 pm

oh and mayby you must change the [no] things that are to long to make, in to difficult or something and mayby you can make them if you have time

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:23 pm

Wisse wrote:

lackattack wrote:Oh, I forgot a [Yes]... Collections (a.k.a. X for Y bonus)

Code: Select all

<continent>
...
</continent>
<collection>
  <name>Power Plants</name>
  <components>
     <component>Burkina Faso</component>
     <component>Benin</component>
     <component>Ghana</component>
     <component>Liberia</component>
     <component>Guinea</component>
     <component>Senegal</component>
     <component>Mauritania</component>
     <component>Western Sahara</component>
     <component>Morocco</component>
  </components>
  <bonuses>
     <bonus quantity="3">1</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="6">3</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="9">5</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="12">7</bonus>
     <bonus quantity="15">10</bonus>
  </bonuses>
</collection>
<country>
...
</country>

Not sure if this is the most elegant way to do it...

explain it like in the others with e.g. i don't know what it is now

lack is talking about this:

Coleman wrote:Suggestion Idea:
Simple X for Y Bonuses

Description:
Lets say I have a group of 15 territories, lets call them power plants. I want to be able to do this:
3 Power Plants +1 Army
6 Power Plants +3 Armies
9 Power Plants +5 Armies
12 Power Plants +7 Armies
15 Power Plants +10 Armies

Why It Should Be Considered:
Technically this is possible with the current xml but it is impossible to do without millions of lines of code on our end using combinations of positive and negative bonuses. There should be a better way.

Lack Label (Mod Use): [Yes]

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:06 pm

Wisse, some of the [No] proposals are good material for future XML updates. I guess we were not clear about this, but the intention was to come up with a small batch of useful changes doable in a week or two. We didn't intend to establish a comprehensive XML to-do list.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:54 pm

glee wrote:Suggestion Idea: Overruling continent bonus

Description: The idea is to have continent bonuses based on different criterias where the lesser criterea is overruled by one that gives a greater bonus. (See example below)

Why It Should Be Considered: The idea came up because of an idea about a poker map consisting of cards spread out on a table. You get your bonus from your best five card poker hand. To make this possible without the bonuses getting rediciously high one continent bonus has to take out an other one. Along with the suggestion about holding x territories out of y possible it would be possible to use this idea for a map.

I'm sure other ways of using this new feature will come up.

Lack Label (Mod Use):

This is an excellent suggestion!! I would love to see the poker map work, and with the possible addition of thise and the approved "components" suggestion it COULD work.

It would be helpful on many other maps too that currently would have to be coded in a complicated manner. For example: Connect 4. If you own 7 in a row you would just write in the XML the bonus for 7 in a row and it would override the bonuses for 4, 5, and 6 in a row.

It's currently possible to work out the math for most overriding bonuses I can think of in the XML, but something more complicated like poker wouldn't work.

Anyway it may be tough to implement so I don't have my hopes up. Also- I like all of the suggestions that lack said YES to. And I can definitely see why he said NO to most of the others.

XML Modifications and Variations

Re: XML Modifications and Variations

Re: XML Modifications and Variations

Re: XML Modifications and Variations

Re: XML Modifications and Variations