Tribal War - Florida v14.2 [31 Jan 2012] pg27

[lostatlimbo]

Also, I agree with the lopsided 1v1 issue. Hope that gets resolved soon as well! :)

[thenobodies80]

Ok, I checked your numbers and mostly I come out with the same results of ender.

These are the 3 best layout I suggest you to make what you want to do.

First of all it's necessary that all your territories are coded as neutral, where you'll have starting positions they will be underlying neutrals, so they will be ignored if the starting position is assigned to a player.

Option 1: 42 starting positions, 14 groups of 3 regions, max positions 3

In a 2,3 and 4 players game each player will start with 9 regions, to be precise:
2 players total 18 regions (3x3xpl) assigned and 39 neutrals
3 players total 27 regions (3x3xpl) assigned and 30 neutrals
4 players total 36 regions (3x3xpl) assigned and 21 neutrals
in a 5,6 or 7 players game each player will start with 6 regions:
5 players total 30 regions (3x2xpl) assigned and 27 neutrals
6 players total 36 regions (3x2xpl) assigned and 21 neutrals
7 players total 42 regions (3x2xpl) assigned and 15 neutrals
in a 8 players game each player will start with only 3 regions:
8 players total 24 regions (3x1xpl) assigned and 33 neutrals

Option 2: 44 starting positions, 11 groups of 4 regions, max positions 2

In a 2,3,4 and 5 players game each player will start with 8 regions, to be precise:
2 players total 16 regions (4x2xpl) assigned and 41 neutrals
3 players total 24 regions (4x2xpl) assigned and 33 neutrals
4 players total 32 regions (4x2xpl) assigned and 25 neutrals
5 players total 40 regions (4x2xpl) assigned and 17 neutrals
in a 6,7 or 8 players game each player will start with 4 regions:
6 players total 24 regions (4x1xpl) assigned and 33 neutrals
7 players total 28 regions (4x1xpl) assigned and 29 neutrals
8 players total 32 regions (4x1xpl) assigned and 25 neutrals

Option 3: 40 starting positions, 8 groups of 5 regions, max positions 2

In a 2,3 and 4 players game each player will start with 10 regions, to be precise:
2 players total 20 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 37 neutrals
3 players total 30 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 27 neutrals
4 players total 40 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 17 neutrals
in a 5,6,7 or 8 players game each player will start with 5 regions:
5 players total 25 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 32 neutrals
6 players total 30 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 27 neutrals
7 players total 35 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 22 neutrals
8 players total 40 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 17 neutrals


I think that if you can change a bit your current starting neutrals (for example from current 13 to 12) you can do something similar with 45 regions and 9 groups of 5 or 15 groups of 3.

Honestly right now we should understand what is the layout you like more.

Nobodies

[thenobodies80]

So?

[Ishihara]

a few notes on the gameplay, after sending congrats to the designers for a great new map (looks great, plays great)... I have only finished 12 games on it, but a few things:

- bonus structure: I'm ok with leaving the Creek as a +3, but Choctaw needs to stay a +2.. . the panhandle areas are the easier bonuses to hold, so having the value increase west to east makes sense...
- tomahawks, arrows and the Spanish bonuses have only come into play for me during a nuclear game or in desperation, when the neutral 3 has been knocked down to a 1... with the varied ways to get a bonus on this map, a player going for a neutral 3 has rarely happened, so that bonus value probably is just fine...
- haven't played this in singles yet, but I can understand the complaint about bonuses on the drop... it plays great for dubs/trips, a little busy on quads (but then, what map isn't)...

again, great work guys... now let's hurry up and get this out of beta so we can use it for clan wars...

[V.J.]

The only correction you can make to that currently is to put an upper limit on the number of starting positions given to any player. You could then set this to, say, 8 and get

2 players: = 8 territories
3 players: = 8 territories
4 players: = 8 territories
5 players: = 8 territories
6 players: = 7 territories
7 players: = 6 territories
8 players: = 5 territories

ender516, I tried the upper limit with <positions max="8"> but that didn't work. any suggestions?

[V.J.]

Ok, I checked your numbers and mostly I come out with the same results of ender.

These are the 3 best layout I suggest you to make what you want to do.

First of all it's necessary that all your territories are coded as neutral, where you'll have starting positions they will be underlying neutrals, so they will be ignored if the starting position is assigned to a player.

Option 3: 40 starting positions, 8 groups of 5 regions, max positions 2

In a 2,3 and 4 players game each player will start with 10 regions, to be precise:
2 players total 20 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 37 neutrals
3 players total 30 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 27 neutrals
4 players total 40 regions (5x2xpl) assigned and 17 neutrals
in a 5,6,7 or 8 players game each player will start with 5 regions:
5 players total 25 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 32 neutrals
6 players total 30 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 27 neutrals
7 players total 35 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 22 neutrals
8 players total 40 regions (5x1xpl) assigned and 17 neutrals


I think that if you can change a bit your current starting neutrals (for example from current 13 to 12) you can do something similar with 45 regions and 9 groups of 5 or 15 groups of 3.

Honestly right now we should understand what is the layout you like more.

Nobodies

Nobodies, we like your suggestion with 40 starting positions. Now, when I tried in xml <positions max="8"> it didn't work. Your suggestion?

[thenobodies80]

Why max=8?
In the quote example you should have 8 positions, each one with 5 components (territories) into it and set the max option to 2.
Like in this example:

<positions max="2">
<position>
<territory>territory A</territory>
<territory>territory B</territory>
<territory>territory C</territory>
<territory>territory D</territory>
<territory>territory E</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>territory F</territory>
<territory>territory G</territory>
<territory>territory H</territory>
<territory>territory I</territory>
<territory>territory L</territory>
</position>
.
.
.
etc
etc
</positions>

Remember that positions are given out randomly, so be careful to group together your territories into positions.

Let me know if you need more info or if it's clear
Nobodies

[V.J.]

Why max=8?
In the quote example you should have 8 positions, each one with 5 components (territories) into it and set the max option to 2.
Like in this example:

<positions max="2">
<position>
<territory>territory A</territory>
<territory>territory B</territory>
<territory>territory C</territory>
<territory>territory D</territory>
<territory>territory E</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>territory F</territory>
<territory>territory G</territory>
<territory>territory H</territory>
<territory>territory I</territory>
<territory>territory L</territory>
</position>
.
.
.
etc
etc
</positions>

Remember that positions are given out randomly, so be careful to group together your territories into positions.

Let me know if you need more info or if it's clear
Nobodies

I just say that I used that MAX before and didn't work. I understand what you are saying and I'll try it out as soon as I get some time. I'm still shaken by stripping my Premium membership and accusations that I have multi accounts. Great reward for paying membership and mapmaking for this website

[V.J.]

Lack, can you update our map with this XML so we get this out of BETA? This should fix the starting positions issue:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/30/3202881/finalxml-v8.xml

[thenobodies80]

Sent to lackattack!

[V.J.]

I'm still not convinced this positions max works, but lets see.

[thenobodies80]

What's the problem with it? What doesn't work? I don't get what you mean....
I see that you didn't wrote the xml like in the example I did, right now you have 43 SP with a max of 8 positions for each player.

[natty dread]

Ok, so that will just give 8 regions per player in 2-5 player games... what's the point in that? Making the map full of neutrals in 2-3 player games?

Sorry, I haven't followed the discussion.

[Seamus76]

Ok, so that will just give 8 regions per player in 2-5 player games... what's the point in that? Making the map full of neutrals in 2-3 player games?

Sorry, I haven't followed the discussion.

From what we've seen there are a lot of bonuses on the drop with the number of current starting territories, especially for 1v1 games. We're trying to keep those down as much as possible.

[V.J.]

What's the problem with it? What doesn't work? I don't get what you mean....
I see that you didn't wrote the xml like in the example I did, right now you have 43 SP with a max of 8 positions for each player.

Isn't this simpler if it works? To lower 1 vs 1 to 8 fields per player and not 14

[thenobodies80]

Isn't simpler, just different.
The xml is valid so it will work.

[V.J.]

Isn't simpler, just different.
The xml is valid so it will work.

Can you let us know when it's uploaded so we can test 1 vs 1? Thank you!

[thenobodies80]

Lackattack has rightly pointed out that the xml file I have sent to him is exactly the same is currently online. What you changed?

After looking at it i think I figured out where the problem lies.
If you want that players start with 8 regions you have to code all the starting positions with a underlying neutral (a neutral added in the region tag, like when you want a region start neutral from the start).
Starting positions overrides neutrals so if a starting position is assigned the territory will be given, if not assigned it will start with the neutral value you coded.

As it is now, your code will work in the same way of your previous one. Is not the max position the problem but the fact that unassigned starting positions go into the starting pot if not coded as neutrals

Let me know if the above explanation is not clear.

[V.J.]

Thanks thenobodies80! Hope this works, here is the new version:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/30/3202881//finalxml-v10.xml

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO-2012-01-31:
- Updated the starting positions in the XML to be the correct 8 terrts for 1v1 games. Also added dashes to the terrts names to be the same as they are listed on the map
- Added clarification to the Canoe 2, so that it reads "Attacks Shell Mound and CH-2 only"
- Added line at bottom to highlight this map as being CC's 200th map

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v14.2 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

v14.2 - Small (630x600)

Click image to enlarge.

XML
http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/30/3202881//finalxml-v10.xml

[thenobodies80]

Just a thing about the new xml version.
Right now you have only BA-1,BA-3,TH-3,Castillo de San Marcos,Conquistador,TH-2,TH-1,Shell Mound Ruins,BA-2,TM-4,AP-4,CH-2 and AP-3 coded as neutral.

Do you know that starting positions are given out randomly? With your current xml your players won't start with 8 regions because you have 43 starting positions with a max 8.
For example in a 1vs1 game with all the above regions assigned as starting positions you still have 43-8-4=31 regions that are given out randomly (31/3=10+1 neutral) so each player can start with 18 territories. If you want each players start with only 8 regions you have to code all your starting positions with a coded neutral in the <territory> tag. If you don't add the neutral tag, when not assigned they come into the starting pot.

Are you sure that the code you posted is what you want?

[Seamus76]

In a 1v1 game we want each player to start with 8, so I guess the code we posted is not what we want. V.J. will have to work on this tomorrow and re-post a new version.

[thenobodies80]

Ok, in this case V.J. you have just to be sure that all the territories have the <neutral> tag (with the value you want into it) after the coordinates one - see the example below - everything else looks good.

Code: Select all

    <territory>
       <name>Alberta</name>
       <borders>
          <border>Alaska</border>
          <border>Northwest Territory</border>
          <border>Ontario</border>
          <border>Western United States</border>
       </borders>
       <coordinates>
          <smallx>90</smallx>
          <smally>90</smally>
          <largex>120</largex>
          <largey>111</largey>
       </coordinates>
       <neutral>10</neutral>
    </territory>

[V.J.]

Here is the new file thenobodies80! hopefully I understood this time

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/30/3202881//finalxml-v11.xml

[thenobodies80]

Yeah, it seems to me you got it.
Sent to the turtle!

Nobodies