All Your Base Are Belong To Us

[Victor Sullivan]

Once the new XML is uploaded, let it play out, then we can discuss other options

-Sully

Here's the thing...the idea of holding all 4 level 3 tech's now requires you to kill 54 neutrals. I think what should have happened was the silo's and dna labs get bumped up to 5 and each of the tech levels would get bumped up 1 tops. Then you would be protecting(barring incredible dice, which does happen)from the manual deploy first round elimination. This would give you a total of 45 neutrals to go through to get all tech levels. But it would also allow for the strategy where one goes after the opponents base early on. AND it doesn't leave it up to chance as much. Before to go for someone base you had to kill off 10 neutrals total then whatever they had in their base. Now you have to kill off 18 neutrals plus whatever they have in their base. Really all it does is allow for more dice fails and evens out the playing field for less strategic players. This allows for far too much chance in my humble opinion.

this could work out fine but i don't like the dna/nuke going all the way to 5. maybe just 4.

so that means 4 on the dna/nuke, 3 on tech 2 lvl 1, 4 on tech 2 lvl 2 and 3 on tech 3 lvl 1.
so some guy deploying all his troops on a terit near a nuke would have 19 troops (18 attacking) to kill 4,3,4,3 plus whatever is on the base.
i think that's pretty decent and to be honest if you leave your base undefended despite knowing it's a losing condition, then it's your own fault.
just deploy 4 troops on it and normally you should be safe from an attack like 18v4,3,4,3,5.
it will still allow people to go for an early elimination and farm unsuspecting noobs that leave their base undefended but not so early as it was before.

ok, if nobody has any other issues and sully also agrees we'll go this way and see what happens.

the less the better i liked it as it was origionally...but i understand why it was changed.

I still think I'd rather see how this set-up goes first. Really, for all of Level 3, Row 2 techs, you only need to take 3+2+3+10+1+1+1+1=22 neutrals. Anywho, I'm not against your idea (as I want to make this map the best it can, too!), I just want to test out this neutral set-up. We have plenty of beta time, so we might as well use it, eh?

-Sully

[s3xt0y]

I still think I'd rather see how this set-up goes first. Really, for all of Level 3, Row 2 techs, you only need to take 3+2+3+10+1+1+1+1=22 neutrals. Anywho, I'm not against your idea (as I want to make this map the best it can, too!), I just want to test out this neutral set-up. We have plenty of beta time, so we might as well use it, eh?

-Sully

I thought it was tech pairs, the win condition should be written more clearly if it is just all the level 3 row 2 techs...that changes things a lot because then you have a buffer to protect your win condition. That would make things interesting...

s3xytime!

[DiM]

actually i intended to have the whole tech 3 as a winning objective, not just the last row as i understand it is coded now.
but this could work also.

anyway i'm thinking another way to solve this.

what if we make the neutrals as they were in the first version, but instead make the last row attack the bases.

so tech 3 lvl 1 has 2 neutrals and does not attack bases.
tech 3 lvl 2 has 3 neutrals and attacks bases.

and for the objective you must hold the entire tech 3 (lvl 1+lvl2)
also make the dna/nukes 4 neutrals

this means that in manual deployment there will be 18vs 4,2,3,2,3+whatever is on the base. it's still possible to make an early rush for the enemy base but only if you have great dice and the opponent leaves his base undefended.

[lostatlimbo]

That makes a lot more sense to me. :)

All the other tech levels attack from the bottom row, would have made sense for Level 3 to do the same and made it a bit harder to take those out from the get go.

[Victor Sullivan]

actually i intended to have the whole tech 3 as a winning objective, not just the last row as i understand it is coded now.
but this could work also.

Ah! Okay, I guess I totally misinterpreted that (not sure how... )

anyway i'm thinking another way to solve this.

what if we make the neutrals as they were in the first version, but instead make the last row attack the bases.

so tech 3 lvl 1 has 2 neutrals and does not attack bases.
tech 3 lvl 2 has 3 neutrals and attacks bases.

and for the objective you must hold the entire tech 3 (lvl 1+lvl2)
also make the dna/nukes 4 neutrals

this means that in manual deployment there will be 18vs 4,2,3,2,3+whatever is on the base. it's still possible to make an early rush for the enemy base but only if you have great dice and the opponent leaves his base undefended.

Though I feel like we should make the objectives just as viable as elimination via assaulting the losing condition. That's why I liked the original solution (the way I was thinking of it, anyway). As it stands in your proposal, that doesn't seem to be the case. And with both rows of Tech Level 3 as an objective (which encompasses the territories that assault the bases) I feel like that would be hard to do. See my point?

-Sully

[DiM]

Though I feel like we should make the objectives just as viable as elimination via assaulting the losing condition. That's why I liked the original solution (the way I was thinking of it, anyway). As it stands in your proposal, that doesn't seem to be the case. And with both rows of Tech Level 3 as an objective (which encompasses the territories that assault the bases) I feel like that would be hard to do. See my point?

-Sully

think about it like this, you're in a fog game and you want to take out your opponent. so you get to tech3 lvl 2 with plans of attacking him. but when you get there you realise his base is heavily forted so you switch your plans to taking and holding the whole tech3 for an objective win.

[s3xt0y]

I like that but I'm almost starting to fall for the 10. The win condition behind the wall of tens just feels like such a sweet win

[Victor Sullivan]

Though I feel like we should make the objectives just as viable as elimination via assaulting the losing condition. That's why I liked the original solution (the way I was thinking of it, anyway). As it stands in your proposal, that doesn't seem to be the case. And with both rows of Tech Level 3 as an objective (which encompasses the territories that assault the bases) I feel like that would be hard to do. See my point?

-Sully

think about it like this, you're in a fog game and you want to take out your opponent. so you get to tech3 lvl 2 with plans of attacking him. but when you get there you realise his base is heavily forted so you switch your plans to taking and holding the whole tech3 for an objective win.

I suppose, but it would be a fair stack of neutrals.

I like that but I'm almost starting to fall for the 10. The win condition behind the wall of tens just feels like such a sweet win

-Sully

[zimmah]

UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A SELECT START.

[tec805]

UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A SELECT START.

The only way to beat it...

[Victor Sullivan]

Erm, did this thread just turn into a Playstation 1 game?

-Sully

[bragsie]

just gotta say, this is a great game, lots of different win scenarios, missed the tech level 3 objective and thought i would get a win but still lost,
the idea of making the level 3s to 10 maybe a little too hard, maybe a 6 instead and then a 4 for level 2, making the level3 second row the ones that can take a base out.
could also bump up tech level 2 for the bombards to maybe 4, might start people trying to get there troop count up before assaulting, e.g assaulting level 1s first.
would mean 20 neutrals before you can attack somebody elses base

[jammyjames]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

[DiM]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

it's a problem with clickable maps not with this map.

[pamoa]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

it's a problem with clickable maps not with this map.

well it's the only single map with this kind of problem
so it is also something to do with the way it's coded

[drunkmonkey]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

it's a problem with clickable maps not with this map.

well it's the only single map with this kind of problem
so it is also something to do with the way it's coded

Exposing a bug and causing a bug are two different things.

[DiM]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

it's a problem with clickable maps not with this map.

well it's the only single map with this kind of problem
so it is also something to do with the way it's coded

as far as i've been told it is not something that VS can fix within the xml and certainly it has nothing to do with the graphics i did.

most likely we made something that doesn't quite fit all right with the clickies but we don't know what that is since we made everything according to foundry standards. the only person that can fix or at least pin point the exact problem is the guy that designed the clickies since he has access to the code and can see what's not working.

i pmed sherkaner and told him about the people that can't use his script with this map. hopefully he'll take a look at it and find a solution. if there's anything we (me +sully) can fix we'll get right to it.

[Bruceswar]

Actually British Isles had this problem. I forgot what caused it offhand, but it was fixed.

[sherkaner]

About the Clickable Maps-issue:

Probably some character in a name that is somehow confusing (probably the VIRUS-territory), gonna look into it. Haven't played the map yet though, I guess I will have to now.

[nolefan5311]

Perhaps this has already been addressed, I haven't read the whole thread, but the legend indicates that holding all the Tech Level 3's for either human or alien wins the map. However, you only need to hold the 3.2's, and not all 8. Maybe the legend needs to be updated to clear that up?

[Winged Cat]

Game 10082643 - I'm not sure, but going for the final tech level victory felt a little too fast. Maybe give the final techs a few more neutrals?

Also, Game 10118605 says I won via "Alien Extermination", but the other game (same thing, but I won wthe alien techs instead of the human) says I held the "Human Eradication" and "Infiltrate, Research, Destroy" objectives. Shouldn't either side list the same number of objectives? (I.e., if winning via human techs is only 1 objective, then winning via alien techs should only be 1 objective.)

[Victor Sullivan]

Game 10082643 - I'm not sure, but going for the final tech level victory felt a little too fast. Maybe give the final techs a few more neutrals?

Also, Game 10118605 says I won via "Alien Extermination", but the other game (same thing, but I won wthe alien techs instead of the human) says I held the "Human Eradication" and "Infiltrate, Research, Destroy" objectives. Shouldn't either side list the same number of objectives? (I.e., if winning via human techs is only 1 objective, then winning via alien techs should only be 1 objective.)

That just means you had an Alien base and a Human base when you held all of the level 3 techs. I wouldn't worry about it too much

-Sully

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

Just a note - When attacking from alien tech 2.2.1 (VIRUS) to tech level 3 STO clickable maps do not function.. you have to use drop-downs otherwise the screen crashes..

it's a problem with clickable maps not with this map.

well it's the only single map with this kind of problem
so it is also something to do with the way it's coded

I could be wrong, but I believe British Isles has the same problem crossing over Hadrian's Wall in at least one of the spots.

[Teflon Kris]

Game 10082643 - I'm not sure, but going for the final tech level victory felt a little too fast. Maybe give the final techs a few more neutrals?

Also, Game 10118605 says I won via "Alien Extermination", but the other game (same thing, but I won wthe alien techs instead of the human) says I held the "Human Eradication" and "Infiltrate, Research, Destroy" objectives. Shouldn't either side list the same number of objectives? (I.e., if winning via human techs is only 1 objective, then winning via alien techs should only be 1 objective.)

That just means you had an Alien base and a Human base when you held all of the level 3 techs. I wouldn't worry about it too much

-Sully

Nah = that cant happen - only one base per player.

5 Ways of winning from wither side:

1. & 2. Hold all 4 of the bottom level 3s on the same side (either).

3. Destroy enemy base from top level 3 spot.

4. Hold land-based auto-deploy spots (DNA / Nuke) corresponding to your base.

5. Have more troops when the round limit is up (if there is one).

Same chance of winning whether you are human or alien.

Only issue here is that the legend doesn't specify bottom 4 level 3s only required for conditions 1 & 2 - some people might understand it as 4 level 3 pairs.

[Victor Sullivan]

Game 10082643 - I'm not sure, but going for the final tech level victory felt a little too fast. Maybe give the final techs a few more neutrals?

Also, Game 10118605 says I won via "Alien Extermination", but the other game (same thing, but I won wthe alien techs instead of the human) says I held the "Human Eradication" and "Infiltrate, Research, Destroy" objectives. Shouldn't either side list the same number of objectives? (I.e., if winning via human techs is only 1 objective, then winning via alien techs should only be 1 objective.)

That just means you had an Alien base and a Human base when you held all of the level 3 techs. I wouldn't worry about it too much

-Sully

Nah = that cant happen - only one base per player.

He had more than one when he held the objective (he assaulted them from the top row of Tech Level 3).

5 Ways of winning from wither side:

1. & 2. Hold all 4 of the bottom level 3s on the same side (either).

3. Destroy enemy base from top level 3 spot.

4. Hold land-based auto-deploy spots (DNA / Nuke) corresponding to your base.

5. Have more troops when the round limit is up (if there is one).

Same chance of winning whether you are human or alien.

Only issue here is that the legend doesn't specify bottom 4 level 3s only required for conditions 1 & 2 - some people might understand it as 4 level 3 pairs.

This is true. I'm formulating a new plan for neutrals, starting positions, etc. I've been busy up the UFHole, so it might be a bit yet.

-Sully