Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus [warned]

[josko.ri]

additional evidence posted on August 3rd is labeled bold and red.
point #7 is changed, and points #14-18 are added, 2 of them from 2011.
Accused: Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus and various members of TOFU clan

The accused are suspected of: Account Sitting Abuse


Game number(s): Numerous, see comments.


Comments: Over the course of more than 1 year, Chariot of Fire has been taking turns for numerous players, mostly for Pedronicus, that he is teamed up with when those players are not away from the site and perfectly capable of taking their own turns. Chariot of Fire takes these turns while the other players are making moves in other games, making forum posts, and joining other games. Chariot of Fire does not take turns in other games at the same time giving more credence to the argument that the players are not actually incapable of making their turns; these players choose to not play their turns, expecting Chariot of Fire to do so for them. This has happened in numerous clan challenges and tournaments, spoiling the competitive nature and integrity of both.

The rules of the site spell out what is classified as Account Sitting Abuse:

Account sitting abuse

What is it

If the Account Sitter has a stake in these non-tournament/non-clan challenge games (as an opponent or teammate), and plays multiple games from start to finish using the Account for which they are Sitting as a communal account strategically play turns, knowing that Account Sitter will not be back to take any of these turns.

A user or group of users who loosely share their accounts among one another to improve their score and gaming by means of strategically allowing others to take their turns for them at specific times, or allowing well versed and ranked users to essentially play select games on their account for them to boost their score and rank.

The last paragraph above clearly spells out the main violation that Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus and various members of TOFU are breaking over, and over, and over again.

Please note that all of the examples below are games in which players have chosen to not play their own turns and allowed Chariot of Fire to do so for them instead. I have excluded games that it looks like legitimate account sitting is taking place (ie: when a player was on vacation/out of town).

Most of the account sitting abuse examples are from 2010, and I decided to report it now because until now I was not aware that this (sitting for a player that was earlier that day online and therefore able to take his turn) is account sitting abuse, but now I am aware, so I think that anyone who did it should be equally punished.

It is very important to add that sitting in 7 of those 13 examples were done with 5 or more hours left on timer (underlined), and 3 turns were done with more than 12 hours left on timer, so Chariot of Fire practically sometimes did not allow to original players to play their own turns, even when the player was later available to play his own turn (often proved by forum posting).

1. Game 6334960 2010-01-31 21:43:29 - Draq ended the turn and got spoils
2010-02-01 19:13:22 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro

Pedronicus posted on forum 4 times during that turn, including post just 1 hour before Chariot of Fire sat:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106318&p=2431564#p2431564
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106318&p=2431601#p2431601
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=108123&p=2432315#p2432315
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=107941&p=2432577#p2432577
New postby Pedronicus on Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 pm
It proves that he was perfectly available to play the turn in Game 6334960, but he chose to leave it for Chariot of Fire.

2. second from the same Game 6334960 2010-02-06 20:56:18 - Draq ended the turn and got spoils
2010-02-07 13:04:48 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro
8 hours left on timer

Pedronicus posted on forum several hours before Chariot of Fire sat and also 1 hour after Chariot of Fire sat:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=108657&p=2441602#p2441602
New postby Pedronicus on Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:32 am
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=108764&p=2442080#p2442080
New postby Pedronicus on Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:11 pm

he also posted 2 other posts in forums after his turn started, and before Chariot of Fire sat for him:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=108657&p=2441042#p2441042
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=108723&p=2441353#p2441353

3. Game 6607573 2010-03-14 23:03:02 - Blitzaholic ended the turn
2010-03-15 17:59:53 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro
5 hours left on timer

Pedronicus commented in forum 6 hours before Chariot of Fire sat:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=90332&p=2498529#p2498529
New postby Pedronicus on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:38 am

4. second from same Game 6607573 2010-04-01 12:46:30 - Blitzaholic ended the turn
2010-04-02 06:36:03 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro
6 hours left on timer

Pedronicus posted on forum 4 hours before Chariot of Fire sat:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112236&p=2525380#p2525380
New postby Pedronicus on Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:16 am

5. Game 6966958 2010-06-15 17:43:54 - Snowgun ended the turn
2010-06-16 05:06:56 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro
13 hours left on timer

Pedronicus was online, he posted 5 posts on Jan 16 from 12:23 and 12:39 am , with last post 4.30 hours beforre Chariot of Fire sat:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=118736&p=2641477#p2641477
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=119976&p=2641830#p2641830
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=119974&p=2641836#p2641836
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=118847&p=2641848#p2641848
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=119469&p=2641851#p2641851
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=118847&p=2641854#p2641854
New postby Pedronicus on Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:39 am

in addition, he posted 2 posts several hours later, but before it was ending time of his turn:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=114366&p=2642529#p2642529
New postby Pedronicus on Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:51 am
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=114366&p=2642630#p2642630

6. Game 7425721 2010-08-14 15:46:01 - Iron Maid ended the turn
2010-08-15 11:51:33 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro

Pedronicus commented 6 posts in forum from Aug 14 9.00 pm to Aug 15 3.36 am, 8 hours before CoF sat:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=122159&p=2730187#p2730187
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=123573&p=2730331#p2730331
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=124316&p=2730474#p2730474
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=124261&p=2730505#p2730505
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=123573&p=2730514#p2730514
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=124317&p=2730526#p2730526
Postby Pedronicus on Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:36 am

during that turn period, Pedronicus also played a turn in this game:
Game 7425670: 2010-08-14 21:18:53 - Iron Maid ended the turn
2010-08-14 21:19:58 - Pedronicus got bonus of 2 troops added to USA Bunker 2
The turn was played just 1 minute after Pedronicus came to turn, so he was perfectly available to play his turns and comment on forums multiple times. this turn was played on the time when it was possible to play the turn in Game 7425721, where Chariot of Fire sat for him.

7. Game 7505239
2010-09-17 11:02:01 - Bruceswar ended the turn
2010-09-17 18:53:03 - Pedronicus: CoF covering for Pedro next 24 hours
16 hours left on timer

so he played the turn when it was 16 hours left, and Pedronicus posted very long post 1.30 hours before Chariot of Fire sat, which proves that he was perfectly available to play the turn in Game 7505239, as he had enough time for writing the long post:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126969&p=2782852#p2782852
Postby Pedronicus on Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:32 pm

Pedronicus also posted forum comment 4 hours after Chariot of Fire sat for him, so he was online both before and after Chariot of Fire sat for him, and within the time for playing his turn:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126969&p=2783327#p2783327
Postby Pedronicus on Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:23 pm

from Chariot of Fire's wall: http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... nicus1.jpg
from Pedronicus' wall: http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... ariot3.jpg
by Pedronicus, Sep 17, 7.26 pm: "running out of time in that 13 colonies game. just over and hour left"
response by Chariot of Fire, Sep 17, 7.33 pm: "do u want to go ahead and play it mate. I cd do it in time, but haven't had chance to study it properly. it's approaching 2 am here n i've loads to cover b4 i sleep"
then Pedronicus played the 13 colonies Game 7639055 2010-09-17 19:41:17 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 5 regions

by Pedronicus, Sep 18, 12.34 pm: "I'm leaving now. I ll let you know when i am back at the controls. Thanks ever so much for agreeing to account sit mate."


so, from all quoted above it is obvious taht Chariot of fire was fully aware that Pedronicus is not away when he sat for him in Game 7505239. when he sat in that game it was 16 hours left on timer and in Game 7639055 it was 2 hours left on timer. obviously, he didnt want to go sleep (he said it is 2 am there) and leave to Pedronicus to make bad move. if he was really sitting for Pedronicus then he would take the turn with 2 hours left on timer, not only the one with 16 hours left on timer. to be thing worse, Pedronicus walled him just 30 minutes after he sat, asking him to sit in 13 colonies game also, and CoF replyed if he want to go ahead and play it. so Pedro wanted that CoF sit for him in 13 colonies also, and CoF refused because of being tired. (Pedro's wish to leave the turn to CoF is main point here). next day (Sep 18th) Pedro walled CoF that he is leaving, so it is no doubt that Pedro was here full available to take his turns on Sep 17, but he chose to leave it for CoF to gain tactical advantage. or maybe better say that CoF did not want to leave the turn for Pedro, probably being affraid that he will make bad move.


8. Game 7625896
2010-09-23 21:37:48 - loes ended the turn and got spoils
2010-09-24 20:10:07 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro

during that turn Pedronicus posted in many places in forums 4 times, including post made just 1 hour before Chariot of Fire sat for him!:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=120687&p=2792688#p2792688
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=118971&p=2792717#p2792717
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=127451&p=2792742#p2792742
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=127477&p=2793900#p2793900
Postby Pedronicus on Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:06 pm


9. Game 8032911 2010-12-01 13:25:57 - pilot16 ended the turn
2010-12-02 04:08:01 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 5 regions
9 hours left on timer

during that turn, Pedronicus posted in forum 4 times, 3-5 hours before Chariot of Fire sat for him:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=132202&p=2895199#p2895199
viewtopic.php?f=91&t=115010&p=2895393#p2895393
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=132202&p=2895421#p2895421
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=132224&p=2895429#p2895429
New postby Pedronicus on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:46 am


Those are 9 examples where Chariot of Fire did sitting abuse when sat for Pedronicus, and here are examples when he did the same abuse when sitting for other players from TOFU clan:

10. second from the same game Game 7505239
2010-09-19 20:53:34 - ManBungalow ended the turn
2010-09-20 16:50:14 - OutSider: CoF for OS

OutSider made post forum comment here during that turn:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=125134&p=2786119#p2786119
by OutSider on Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:54 pm


11. third abuse from the same game Game 7505239
2010-10-10 08:54:13 - killmanic ended the turn
2010-10-10 11:09:20 - Dako: CoF for Dako next 24 hours while he flies back to Vodkaland

not only that Dako had 22 hours left when CoF was sitting, but also Dako made forum comment here 12 hours before the turn would be over, so obviously Dako was far away from missing that turn, if Chariot of Fire left the playing chance to Dako:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=128534&p=2819762#p2819762
New postby Dako on Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:15 pm

12. Game 7592386
2010-10-07 05:54:35 - karelpietertje ended the turn
2010-10-08 04:15:08 - Iron Maid: Clock running down. CoF for IM

during that turn, Iron Maid posted in forum here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=122693&p=2815138#p2815138
Postby Iron Maid on Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:23 pm

Iron Maid also played multiple turns in 1v1 games several times during that day, without a sitter notification,
Game 7755595 2010-10-07 16:31:23 - Iron Maid received 2 troops for holding Meso-America
2010-10-07 23:14:52 - Iron Maid received 2 troops for holding Meso-American (5 hours before Chariot of Fire sat for him)
that private game was joined by Iron Maid on 6th of October so it shows that he wasnt planning to go on any vacation soon.
Game 7755591 2010-10-07 20:09:27 - Iron Maid received 5 troops for 15 regions
2010-10-08 00:25:34 - Iron Maid received 3 troops for 10 regions. this turn was played by Iron Maid (not a sitter notification) 3 hours before Chariot of Fire sat for him in Game 7592386, what proves that he was perfectly available to play the turn in the poker game.
in addition, that was decisive turn in the game when 2 players were killed and 2 sets cashed so obviously Iron Maid left it to Chariot of Fire to decide the game instead of him. That was the only turn in the game in which Iron Maid "needed" sitter.

13. Game 9043142
2011-05-19 04:17:40 - kevlove102 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-20 04:13:27 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions

during the time of turn sonicsteve played some of turns in other games without sitter notification:
Game 9083396 2011-05-19 16:16:36 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 10 regions
Game 9073777 2011-05-19 17:41:17 - chemefreak ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-19 17:47:47 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions. This turn is played just 6 mninutes after sonicsteve's turn began in that game, what proves that he was near computer on that time ready to play speed turns.
That was round 1 in Game 9043142, so obviously sonicsteve left it to Chariot of Fire to play it for him. in addition, sonicsteve is moderator, so he should be the first to not break any rule.


14. Game 7510177 2010-09-04 19:59:04 - loes ended the turn and got spoils
2010-09-05 18:17:41 - Pedronicus got bonus of 1 troops added to Brago
no sitter notification! but I have doubts that this turn was played by Chariot of Fire. here is why:
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... riot4a.jpg
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... riot4b.jpg
Chariot of Fire's wall: by Pedronicus, Sep 05, 1.23 am: "to be honest Si, there are 3 games that at this moment in time are live and I'm off to the regionals (poker) tomorrow and I have no idea I'll be home before the time runs out. Could you take my turn on my 3 games at the top of my list? Thanks"
Pedro's wall, response by CoF, Sep 05, 9.41 am: "yep, no worries, can cover. gl in yr poker finals"
Pedroncius was able to play the turn in Game 7510177 on the time when he walled CoF. so I would like if multihunters can check if the turn was played by Pedro, or by coFwithout sitter notification. the most important fact here is intention of both players. Pedronicus' intention is to leave to CoF the turn which he was able to play. he played some turns in other games, but left him other games where he wasnt sure what to do. Chariot of Fire's intention was to be ready to sit in a game, when he was aware that Pedronicus was able to play this turn at earlier time. so, no matter if Pedro was back to play his turn or not, the intention of both players to abuse account sitting rules is what makes them guilty in this case.


15. from Chariot of Fire's wall: http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... ariot1.jpg
by Shatners Bassoon, Dec 06, 9.10 pm: "8033024..i'll let you catch this...it's been the day from hell for me...i really didn't think things could get any worse!"
Game 8033024 2010-12-06 10:33:59 - Koganosi ended the turn and got spoils
2010-12-07 08:45:18 - Shatners Bassoon received 2 troops for holding Scandinavia
no sitter notification. I would like that multihunters check if Shatners Bassoon played his turn, or CoF did it, like requested in wall post from SB. again, similar like point #14, the intention of leaving the turn for CoF, when SB was available to play the turn, is what makes him guilty. various TOFU members said publicly in the C&A thread vs me that in their opinion being exhausted is not valid reason to not play your own turn and leave it for a sitter.


16. Game 7856676 2010-12-11 11:52:27 - sjnap ended the turn
2010-12-11 20:38:44 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro
from Chariot of Fire's wall: http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... pedro2.jpg
by Pedronicus, Dec 11, 6.32 pm: "I'm going now. Left europa for you just in case your dice can swing some sort of advantage"
I think nothing need to be added there, everything is obivous. Pedronicus was going to vacation, but he was at home when it was 19 hours left for his europa turn. he chose to not take it and to leave it for CoF so he can get tactical advantage by playing it. with receiving the wall post from Pedro, CoF was aware that Pedro was online and able to play his turn, but he chose not to do it and leave it for him.


17. Game 8687933 2011-03-25 01:51:45 - fgasparini ended the turn
2011-03-26 00:41:28 - Dako: CoF for Captain Slack
during that turn period, and before CoF sat for him, Dako posted 11 froum posts. these posts were written on March 25th, at 10 am, and 3,4,5,6 pm. obviously, Dako chose to leave the turn for CoF, becasue he had plenty of time that day to make multiple forum posts, but did not play the turn and left it for CoF. also, it is obvious that Dako was not on vacation that day, so I would like if hunters can check if CoF was logged on his account while Dako's moderators privileges were not removed, and therefore made other rule abuse.
here are Dako's posts from the turn time, before CoF sat for him:
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=140977&p=3080974#p3080974
Postby Dako on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:23 am
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=141036&p=3080975#p3080975
viewtopic.php?f=438&t=140929&p=3081182#p3081182
viewtopic.php?f=438&t=140929&p=3081308#p3081308
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=140977&p=3081422#p3081422
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=139589&p=3081425#p3081425
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=141019&p=3081430#p3081430
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=141078&p=3081452#p3081452
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=141019&p=3081505#p3081505
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=141019&p=3081511#p3081511
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=141019&p=3081558#p3081558
Postby Dako on Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:45 pm
(some of the posts are from Clan leaders association forum, but multihunters are able to read that forum and check it)



18. Game 9157574 2011-06-05 11:21:34 - Terry Nutkins ended the turn
2011-06-05 12:16:00 - Dako: cof for dako (sunday only)
23 hours left no timer!
Dako posted 12 posts on forums from 3 hours after CoF sat to 10 hours after CoF sat. that would be 20 hours left on timer to 13 hours left on timer. it proves he was perfectly available to play his turn, if CoF left him some time to do it and did not sat with 23 hours left on timer. Dako's posts are here:
viewtopic.php?f=527&t=97965&p=3200512#p3200512
New postby Dako on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:28 pm
viewtopic.php?f=295&t=146543&p=3200528#p3200528
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=132387&p=3200532#p3200532
viewtopic.php?f=441&t=136588&p=3200538#p3200538
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=146554&p=3200541#p3200541
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=132387&p=3200943#p3200943
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=143424&p=3200954#p3200954
viewtopic.php?f=527&t=97965&p=3200964#p3200964
viewtopic.php?f=442&t=143424&p=3200971#p3200971
viewtopic.php?f=443&t=132387&p=3201084#p3201084
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=146496&p=3201091#p3201091
viewtopic.php?f=472&t=146539&p=3201098#p3201098
New postby Dako on Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:47 pm



That is evidence that I found in researching some Chariot of Fire's games in challenges where result was tough, so with knowing him I expected that he will do account sitting abuse in those games to gain tactical advantage, and I think the facts stated above prove that the abuse was really done. I believe that his account sitting abuse is much bigger than the evidence above proves because I also found many games where he did not post any notification in game chats when he was sitting for someone:

1. Game 8441498 2011-02-27 07:29:30 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro, Sunday only
Game 8529306 2011-02-27 07:32:22 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for holding Japan - no sitter notification
Game 8529351 2011-02-27 07:43:02 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 5 regions - no sitter notification

2. Game 8631053 2011-03-15 06:44:39 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro, today only
Game 8631138 2011-03-15 06:47:24 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 3 regions - no sitter notification
Game 8631121 2011-03-15 06:51:40 - Pedronicus received 2 troops for holding Connecticut - no sitter notification

Above games show examples of cases in which Chariot of Fire sat for players without announcing in some games (and if he didn't sit in those games, then abuse is even bigger, as he and Pedronicus were playing on his account at the same time). Since Chariot of Fire doesn't announce his sitting in every game, I believe his abuse is much bigger than the evidence shows, but I can't find evidence when he sometimes hides the fact that he is sitting.

[Ace Rimmer]

Chariot of Fire is on vacation for another ~3 weeks, so do not expect a reply from him anytime soon.

[josko.ri]

Chariot of Fire is on vacation for another ~3 weeks, so do not expect a reply from him anytime soon.

Pedronicus and the others accused are here so they can explain why Chariot of Fire took their turns when they were here able to play it by themselves at earlier time.

[eddie2]

sorry what josko give it a rest mate. lets look at your report 95 percent of it is more than a year old. due to previous cases you cannot bring it up now.

this is the only part that can be looked at.

13. Game 9043142
2011-05-19 04:17:40 - kevlove102 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-20 04:13:27 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions

during the time of turn sonicsteve played some of turns in other games without sitter notification:
Game 9083396 2011-05-19 16:16:36 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 10 regions
Game 9073777 2011-05-19 17:41:17 - chemefreak ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-19 17:47:47 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions. This turn is played just 6 mninutes after sonicsteve's turn began in that game, what proves that he was near computer on that time ready to play speed turns.
That was round 1 in Game 9043142, so obviously sonicsteve left it to Chariot of Fire to play it for him. in addition, sonicsteve is moderator, so he should be the first to not break any rule.


That is evidence that I found in researching some Chariot of Fire's games in challenges where result was tough, so with knowing him I expected that he will do account sitting abuse in those games to gain tactical advantage, and I think the facts stated above prove that the abuse was really done. I believe that his account sitting abuse is much bigger than the evidence above proves because I also found many games where he did not post any notification in game chats when he was sitting for someone:

1. Game 8441498 2011-02-27 07:29:30 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro, Sunday only
Game 8529306 2011-02-27 07:32:22 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for holding Japan - no sitter notification
Game 8529351 2011-02-27 07:43:02 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 5 regions - no sitter notification

2. Game 8631053 2011-03-15 06:44:39 - Pedronicus: CoF for Pedro, today only
Game 8631138 2011-03-15 06:47:24 - Pedronicus received 3 troops for 3 regions - no sitter notification
Game 8631121 2011-03-15 06:51:40 - Pedronicus received 2 troops for holding Connecticut - no sitter notification

where is the speed game to back this up.

it is not against site rules to not announce sitting. where is info of them forum posting or playing speed games during this period. at present the only part you can actually prove is more than 12 months ago and that is not valid. unless you can prove these parts or other stuff more up to date this c and a report is spurious and revenge for the warning you recieved for stuff that has been happening in the last couple of months.

[Timminz]

Chariot of Fire is on vacation for another ~3 weeks, so do not expect a reply from him anytime soon.

Pedronicus and the others accused are here so they can explain why Chariot of Fire took their turns when they were here able to play it by themselves at earlier time.

Of course they can.

Privately, so that you can't see what their defense is.

[HairyP]

I saw this coming from a mile away, just slap them with a Warning and end this.

[josko.ri]

lets look at your report 95 percent of it is more than a year old. due to previous cases you cannot bring it up now.

not true eddie, 5 of 13 examples are older than 1 year, so less than 50%. even if it is all old data, does it change or minorize the fact that abuse was done?

This turn is played just 6 mninutes after sonicsteve's turn began in that game, what proves that he was near computer on that time ready to play speed turns.

where is the speed game to back this up.

eddie2, please read what is written before you post nonsense. I said that he was ready to play speed TURNS, not speed GAMES. speed turns means playing the turn in casual game with 23:54 hours left on timer. speed games are games with only 5 minutes for turn. with that statement I wanted to show he was near computer because he played his turn in other game on the time his turn began. even without that, it is clearly proven that sonicsteve played his turns in 2 games earlier during that day, when he was available to play the turn in Game 9043142, but he rather chose to not play it and leave it to Chariot of Fire.

it is not against site rules to not announce sitting.

nor I said it is. I just said that it is obvious that he does not always announce his sitting, because 3 of those turns were played at the same time, and only in 1 is sitter notification.

at present the only part you can actually prove is more than 12 months ago and that is not valid. unless you can prove these parts or other stuff more up to date this c and a report is spurious and revenge for the warning you recieved for stuff that has been happening in the last couple of months.

well, 8/13 cases are from period earlier than 12 months ago, so please first consider right facts before posting lie. this report is not revenge, it is made with expectation that every player will be equally treated with the word of law, no matter if his name is josko, Chariot, or some third. if 100 players are found in secret diplomacy then 100 players would be punished. so, if more players are found in doing account sitting abuse, then more players should be warned, otherwise I do not see a point of existing the account sitting rules.

[eddie2]

maybe i miss understood what you were going on about with sonicsteve but was there not a post to say

2011-05-31 04:19:20 - sonicsteve: CoF for Sonic (on hols til 6/6)

this game was a tournement game so he was allowed to play it and join it up within the rules of the site. but never mind.

[Bones2484]

How are you getting some of the turn information on these games? For some reason the logs aren't showing up for me, nor is there a link to view the entire game log like I'm used to seeing. Is it a problem on my machine or can no one see these to verify?

[Ace Rimmer]

How are you getting some of the turn information on these games? For some reason the logs aren't showing up for me, nor is there a link to view the entire game log like I'm used to seeing. Is it a problem on my machine or can no one see these to verify?

The turn information is archived and deleted 14 days after end of the game. They do not show up for anyone.

[Bones2484]

How are you getting some of the turn information on these games? For some reason the logs aren't showing up for me, nor is there a link to view the entire game log like I'm used to seeing. Is it a problem on my machine or can no one see these to verify?

The turn information is archived and deleted 14 days after end of the game. They do not show up for anyone.

How was I able to view them when I made the report on Josko? Or how is Josko able to find it for this report?

[Leehar]

viewtopic.php?p=3240222#p3240222

Done!

Now the [load entire chat] and [load entire log] links only appear when there is more to load.

Furthermore the game chat now shows 50 lines that are actually visible.

If you can't see the load chat button, that means there's no chat to load?

[Bones2484]

If you can't see the load chat button, that means there's no chat to load?

That'd be fantastic if I'm looking for chat information, but I'm not. I'm looking to validate information such as:

2011-05-19 04:17:40 - kevlove102 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-20 04:13:27 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions

The Load Entire Log is not visible for me, and I was wondering if that's the same for everyone.

[eddie2]

If you can't see the load chat button, that means there's no chat to load?

That'd be fantastic if I'm looking for chat information, but I'm not. I'm looking to validate information such as:

2011-05-19 04:17:40 - kevlove102 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-20 04:13:27 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions

The Load Entire Log is not visible for me, and I was wondering if that's the same for everyone.

not loading for me either thats why i said it is invalid i dont think mods even keep records back that far to check this info

[Leehar]

If you can't see the load chat button, that means there's no chat to load?

That'd be fantastic if I'm looking for chat information, but I'm not. I'm looking to validate information such as:

2011-05-19 04:17:40 - kevlove102 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-20 04:13:27 - sonicsteve received 3 troops for 7 regions

The Load Entire Log is not visible for me, and I was wondering if that's the same for everyone.

not loading for me either thats why i said it is invalid i dont think mods even keep records back that far to check this info

But I think it was possible to see those things previously as Bones mentioned they did with the Josko case and as it was done here
It's why I mentioned my link, since I think it's quite possible that this is another side-effect from that bug-fix lack did yesterday/this morning

[josko.ri]

How are you getting some of the turn information on these games? For some reason the logs aren't showing up for me, nor is there a link to view the entire game log like I'm used to seeing. Is it a problem on my machine or can no one see these to verify?

yesterday when I was completing the evidence, everything worked well. today I also cannot load whole log in multiple games. hopefully it can be fixed.

[Bones2484]

How are you getting some of the turn information on these games? For some reason the logs aren't showing up for me, nor is there a link to view the entire game log like I'm used to seeing. Is it a problem on my machine or can no one see these to verify?

yesterday when I was completing the evidence, everything worked well. today I also cannot load whole log in multiple games. hopefully it can be fixed.

Yea, looks like Lack did something last night as Leehar said. Thanks!

[Chuuuuck]

I would just like to re-iterate that CoF is out of town for a few more weeks on vacation. A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation.

I implore the mods to not make any assumptions or decisions until the accused all have a chance to look at this and defend themselves. I trust they will do this and make a fair judgement.

Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.

[josko.ri]

I would just like to re-iterate that CoF is out of town for a few more weeks on vacation. A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation.

I implore the mods to not make any assumptions or decisions until the accused all have a chance to look at this and defend themselves. I trust they will do this and make a fair judgement.

Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.

may I just ask why this is going to be non public defense? here is your post from other C&A thread:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859&start=210#p3214443

However, I do believe that the C&A hunters should make the entire defense public for it to be picked apart by the court of public opinion. If speculation or anything else starts happening then they should keep it on topic and ask people to stick to facts, however, they should give the public a chance to review and acknowledge the defense. I think this because this site does not go out and actively look for cases of abuse on their own, they leave it up to the community as a whole to bring cases to them, then, in addition to that, they leave it up to the community to amount evidence against the accused for them to punish someone. It makes absolutely no sense that you rely on the community to come up with all of the evidence, but then you don't let them see the defense to make their argument against it. Pretty one sided if it is not made public, you show the accused the accusations against them and all of the evidence, but you don't provide the accusers the defense and the chance for rebuttal.

so, what happened that you changed your opinion, and something that you previously had supported to be public, now you support to be secret?

[BoganGod]

I would just like to re-iterate that CoF is out of town for a few more weeks on vacation. A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation.

I implore the mods to not make any assumptions or decisions until the accused all have a chance to look at this and defend themselves. I trust they will do this and make a fair judgement.

Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.

Very reasonable request there chuuuuck, just seems a bit far fetched to hope people will listen. After the way joski and by association kort were hounded(largely by members of tofu) in a recent thread. Now that the accusation of account sitting abuse(seems more like account sharing) has been made against tofu members, imagine some will enjoy having the boot on the other foot.

Expect to see a lot of people in glass houses type comments in here.

An etiquette question here. Is it normal to accuse in public, and defend against accusations in private. Seems a bit underhand almost. Is it a tactic to try and keep the damage to the clans reputation in thread to a minimum? Yes I can understand that CoF is away, are all the co accused away as well? If not, why would such a here to now very vocal in public clan be silent on such a serious accusation?

Can only imagine how irritating it must have been to joski and kort, with the length of time it took for a ruling. Time which a lot of people used to put the boot in, and attempt to rewrite history a fair bit. Can understand Tofu trying to avoid this, just maybe don't like the way they are going about it.

I've played against and with CoF often. I don't understand how he would find the time to share accounts/abuse sitting, considering the amount of time he devotes to taking his turns and been a competent team mate by consensus seeking in chat.

Am hoping these tit for tat threads won't become a regular thing.

[Night Strike]

so, what happened that you changed your opinion, and something that you previously had supported to be public, now you support to be secret?

Probably because since you were allowed to get away with it, they might as well do it as well.

[Commander9]

Am hoping these tit for tat threads won't become a regular thing.

Well, from what I understand, this is just the beginning as Josko said that he is going to make more accusations. Should be interesting.

[Leehar]

Am hoping these tit for tat threads won't become a regular thing.

Well, from what I understand, this is just the beginning as Josko said that he is going to make more accusations. Should be interesting.

I has been oft-said that the account-sitting of this type is pretty prevalent in the clan scene, and now that precedent has been set with the josko it should be no surprise that more cases like this will come out of the woodwork whether it be vindictive as bogan suggests, or just an attempt to bring clarity on the whole situation and equate similar acts to each other

[josko.ri]

Am hoping these tit for tat threads won't become a regular thing.

Well, from what I understand, this is just the beginning as Josko said that he is going to make more accusations. Should be interesting.

The rules need to be enforced equally for everyone, what is the point of rules if not?. If nobody else did this kind of account sitting abuse, then why you are affraid that new reports will be done? then it does not exist evidence to write new reports.

[Commander9]

I has been oft-said that the account-sitting of this type is pretty prevalent in the clan scene, and now that precedent has been set it should be no surprise that more cases like this will come out of the woodwork whether it be vindictive as some say, or just an attempt to bring clarity on the whole situation and equate similar acts to each other

I do agree that there's a need for clarity, although from what I've seen, I'm not completely sure he realizes the line between account sitting and account abuse. I was accused of being a cheater and doing the 2nd option with misinformation on live chat (which is something that I really do not appreciate due to it's nature), so I am just a bit curious how this will develop. In a way, I'm a bit afraid that Pandora's box has been opened and there's going to be a lot of threads without any basis... But that's just my opinion. I am expecting a couple of quite fun weeks for the Multi Hunters.

The rules need to be enforced equally for everyone, what is the point of rules if not?. If nobody else did this kind of account sitting abuse, then why you are affraid that new reports will be done? then it does not exist evidence to write new reports.

Josko, I think you have misunderstood what I have wrote. Yes, rules definitely need to be the same for everyone, but you have to realize that throwing accusations at people, especially when those accusations really do not have a strong basis, is something that is normally not very appreciated. I do understand your concerns and I do understand that you've been unhappy with your report, but making random accusations does not help anyone - it only antagonizes you and makes people to listen even less to what you have to say.

As I have stated in live chat, I do not have anything to be afraid off or worry and I do believe that most of the people in this site feel the same way about themselves. Cheating & abuse does have it's purpose, as you have said, but you also have to realize that people who are working there are volunteers and that it's not something that they do for fun. I firmly believe that reporting cheating is necessary and all such occasions have to be dealt with, but I also believe that there's no need to start accusing everyone around just because you have been reported.