Account Sitting Abuse - josko.ri [warned]

[Chariot of Fire]

Terrance, what on Earth are you talking about? That sentence of mine that you've chosen to highlight is written in the past tense. It refers to a time eight months ago when relationships between TOFU and KORT were starting to sour as we took offence at josko telling our clan members how they should have played their turns. To try and keep things on a friendly basis as there was still a long road ahead in terms of the number of games we still had to play we did what we could to mend the relationship. See Game 7592356 gamechat for instance. We also chose not to pursue the fact the opposition were entering an absent member into team games and having josko play his turns. These things we did in the interests of harmony (though Game 7592354 will soon tell you it didn't last long!). So, we completed a challenge which neither clan enjoyed and which we'd never want to repeat - yet at the time we elected not to file a report regarding tactics that we considered underhand.

Turn the clock forward eight months and in that time I've received a number of PMs from other clans saying "Hey, did you have a problem with josko sitting other accounts?" to which my answer was "Well, yes we did". There then came this C&A report lodged by another clan to which I added the circumstances of events that took place last year.

On the weight of our evidence alone I don't believe a report filed in 2010 would have had much gravity, but when added to problems encountered by both THOTA and G1 in 2011 then it's probably not too ridiculous to conclude that there has existed a long-standing and systematic abuse of sitting privileges and is why, several months down the line, we have elected to add our concerns.

Telling a player EXACTLY what to do with their turn or severely dominating other clan members' gameplay is more or less the same as logging into their account and playing for them.

If you believe this to be true then you really have no business to be posting on this topic, as this remark is just plain wrong.

[nikola_milicki]

is this by any chance moving to the next stage? werent 10 pages enough to get real and accept that there was abuse?? if not this thread is just time wasting and silly.. everybody shud be spending their energy on deciding just how serious this abuse was and what would be the proper punishment, also what do we do with all the clan challenge games they've been messing with.. and most importantly come up with some way of preventing this crap from happening in the future..

[nippersean]

"Telling a player EXACTLY what to do with their turn or severely dominating other clan members' gameplay is more or less the same as logging into their account and playing for them.

Nope - one is against the rules, the other isn't.

End of story.

[tec805]

I can now see that the only way to truly gauge the skill of a clan would be for all clan challenges to consist of 1v1 fog games where no account sitting was allowed. Period. Any other variation would be open to corruption or at least not be an accurate reflection of how good a clan as a whole actually is.

Your point is understood, but your example is truly silly. 1vs1 is so obviously skewed towards the first player on so many maps that people would complain about losing because they almost always lost when going second. Team games help in balancing that out of course.

Tearing the system apart to stop abuse sitting (or any other form of cheating) is like telling people all freeways should become single lanes because some people break the speed limit. We are involved in a contest with other people, someone will always find a way to gain an advantage, if that method is deeming "cheating" or "abusive" then punish that person when they are caught.

[greenoaks]

is this being looked at by the C&A people. it has been 11 pages and no verdict

[ljex]

is this being looked at by the C&A people. it has been 11 pages and no verdict

more pages does not = quicker verdict...it actually makes the verdict come slower because they have to read through more posts on the topic. Furthermore while it has been 11 pages how many pages a thread is has no bearing on long the thread has been open time wise.

[InsomniaRed]

is this being looked at by the C&A people. it has been 11 pages and no verdict

I'm positive this is being looked at very seriously, but I do know that king a is away for a few days and that most likely is adding to the hold-up on top of the fact that this is quite a hefty case to investigate.

[Dako]

Do not expect it to be resolved on the next week as well. I have a gut feeling the case is not that simple.

[patrickaa317]

I'm not going to lie or pretend that I read through all the pages but from what I saw on the first few posts, if someone is on their account plays all their games except 2 or 3 due to "missing game chat"; then will run out of time due to waiting for game chat; is that really "at risk for missing a turn"?

I realize a lot of us require team chat to succeed in games but at what point do we allow not having communication in advance an excuse for being able to use a sitter due to "being at risk"? Perhaps, better planning should take place to get team chat out there before only 5-6 hours remain or the player will just have to make their own choices.

If I felt I couldn't take a turn unless I had clear, exact instructions laid out; I would think that I should probably avoid that map.

Again I understand that it is important to be on the same page as a team but if you can just not play a game because you don't know what to do, then have a high rank "sitter" step in and take the turn, let's just be able to join the same team ourselves so that we don't have to log in and out of peoples accounts.

Example quads game:
patrickaa317, patrickaa317, patrickaa317, patrickaa317 VS otherguy1, otherguy2, otherguy3, otherguy4

From what I understand, that is basically what is happening anyway.

[nippersean]

yup. If you don't get feedback, just play yer turn = that's how me and every one i know play it.

[jj3044]

yup. If you don't get feedback, just play yer turn = that's how me and every one i know play it.

I agree completely. I can't tell you how many times I have had to take clan/challenge game turns without input from my teammates... mostly because I only check CC once a day. If there is no feedback, I take my turn.

[lokisgal]

I have to say I agree . If you log on and you know you cant get back before your team mates comment in chat then you just take your turn. We suffered this in our challenge with Empire only from what I can see from on player - Lord Voldemort.
If you can take turns in the am then miss a turn 10 hours later but then be back 12 or 13 hours later well thats not the 24 hours that you are supposed to be away for
Sorry but being drunk ,playing baseball, I didnt know what to do are all lame excuses. If youre not good enough to figure out what to do on your own then you shouldnt be in that game. My mistake was not filing a public report on that.
In anycase no matter what the outcome here is I think CC has to do some very hard looking into baby sitting.

[jj3044]

I have to say I agree . If you log on and you know you cant get back before your team mates comment in chat then you just take your turn. We suffered this in our challenge with Empire only from what I can see from on player - Lord Voldemort.
If you can take turns in the am then miss a turn 10 hours later but then be back 12 or 13 hours later well thats not the 24 hours that you are supposed to be away for
Sorry but being drunk ,playing baseball, I didnt know what to do are all lame excuses. If youre not good enough to figure out what to do on your own then you shouldnt be in that game. My mistake was not filing a public report on that.
In anycase no matter what the outcome here is I think CC has to do some very hard looking into baby sitting.

Loki, please stop taking this off-topic. If you have a problem with anything that happened in our challenge, open a C&A report, but I can tell you that we are all getting sick of hearing about it. I took a turn for LV when it was an hour from missing, not knowing that he had set his alarm to get up an hour before the turn expired. As such, he came online while I was taking the turn for him. Either file a complaint, or drop it. This is not about LV, this is about Josko. The circumstances are waaaaaaaaaay different.

[Denise]

I have to say I agree . If you log on and you know you cant get back before your team mates comment in chat then you just take your turn. We suffered this in our challenge with Empire only from what I can see from on player - Lord Voldemort.
If you can take turns in the am then miss a turn 10 hours later but then be back 12 or 13 hours later well thats not the 24 hours that you are supposed to be away for
Sorry but being drunk ,playing baseball, I didnt know what to do are all lame excuses. If youre not good enough to figure out what to do on your own then you shouldnt be in that game. My mistake was not filing a public report on that.
In anycase no matter what the outcome here is I think CC has to do some very hard looking into baby sitting.

Loki, please stop taking this off-topic. If you have a problem with anything that happened in our challenge, open a C&A report, but I can tell you that we are all getting sick of hearing about it. I took a turn for LV when it was an hour from missing, not knowing that he had set his alarm to get up an hour before the turn expired. As such, he came online while I was taking the turn for him. Either file a complaint, or drop it. This is not about LV, this is about Josko. The circumstances are waaaaaaaaaay different.

Loki, jj is right. You claim this is an example of sitting abuse, but you are wrong. It is as John said, the circumstances are completely different. That you don't feel LV's excuse is good enough is irrelevant, because that is an opinion and subjective. Why is a day of semi-pro baseball less of an excuse than any other? I thought that you having the last word in this thread about 5 pages ago would end it. I agree that this is off topic. If you want to debate it further, I respectfully suggest taking it to PM. Though I personally don't see what the point would be.

[ljex]

I have to say I agree . If you log on and you know you cant get back before your team mates comment in chat then you just take your turn. We suffered this in our challenge with Empire only from what I can see from on player - Lord Voldemort.
If you can take turns in the am then miss a turn 10 hours later but then be back 12 or 13 hours later well thats not the 24 hours that you are supposed to be away for
Sorry but being drunk ,playing baseball, I didnt know what to do are all lame excuses. If youre not good enough to figure out what to do on your own then you shouldnt be in that game. My mistake was not filing a public report on that.
In anycase no matter what the outcome here is I think CC has to do some very hard looking into baby sitting.

here i thought you already reported LV for this and it was ruled he didn't break the rules. Sometimes you think you will be back and then something comes up...cant tell you how many times that has happened to me in my games.

[lord voldemort]

again loki...
are you actually that upset??


seriously...file a report...
It goes like this
Step 1: click indicated button


Step 2: Fill in title (I even recommended one)


Step 3: This is tricky...and will require some effort by you...as well as a nice story...Fill in this form detailing what I did and the games Involved...And the people involved...as I dont think it was all of my empire buddies.


Step 4: This one is obvious...click the button


Hope this clears the issue up

[HardAttack]

lol LV.

[lokisgal]

No lovo im not that upset dont flatter yourself so much. I
It was not one turn It was mulitple times . I still have all the screen shots from the mulitple times his flag was changing back and forth sometimes as much as 4 times in a 24 hour period.

Im using this just an example of how much this goes on with in clans and as ive said every time ive posted its nothing against Empire I dont know wh,y unless you all feel there is some tooth to what I say, that you all have to come rushing in.

As I keep saying this is just an example of how clans do this all the time and thats it.

[jj3044]

No lovo im not that upset dont flatter yourself so much. Im just merely pointing out another example of this sort of thing.
you doth protest yet again to much

Apples and hand grenades loki...

[lord voldemort]

No lovo im not that upset dont flatter yourself so much. Im just merely pointing out another example of this sort of thing.
you doth protest yet again to much

do i need to remind you of the dead horse being brutally beaten??

[lokisgal]

you guys dont read well do you

get a life its AN EXAMPLE and acct sitting abuse is sitting abuse. Doesnt matter if its 10 times or 100 . Ive been nice about
Now back to the topic at hand and learn to read the word

EXAMPLE

[lord voldemort]

How the f*ck is it relevant to josko sitting for members of kort?
He was allegedly sitting others in his clan to gain an advantage to him being a better player.

you keep saying I let others take my turns..on 1 map where I am one of the stronger players? Not to mention having a valid excuse for needing a sitter.
Do you see the difference??
Now...take my advice in simple easy to read picture form...or STFU. Im sick of having my name dragged around in the mud with your bullshit

[patrickaa317]

How the f*ck is it relevant to josko sitting for members of kort?
He was allegedly sitting others in his clan to gain an advantage to him being a better player.

Agreed. I think this thread needs to be locked unless more evidence or discussion around Josko will be added.

[Dako]

No lovo im not that upset dont flatter yourself so much. I
It was not one turn It was mulitple times . I still have all the screen shots from the mulitple times his flag was changing back and forth sometimes as much as 4 times in a 24 hour period.

I can create a screenshot of your profile with any flag on it, even with decepticons emblem.

[lokisgal]

How the f*ck is it relevant to josko sitting for members of kort?
He was allegedly sitting others in his clan to gain an advantage to him being a better player.

you keep saying I let others take my turns..on 1 map where I am one of the stronger players? Not to mention having a valid excuse for needing a sitter.
Do you see the difference??
Now...take my advice in simple easy to read picture form...or STFU. Im sick of having my name dragged around in the mud with your bullshit

ease up lovo if you actually read what I say it is relevent to this entire discussion about josko as it has to do with where do we draw the line for what is acceptable for baby sitting.

Its a much larger issue than just josko as has already been pointed out multiple times in this thread. Its something that seems to be pretty rampant in lot of clans thats the point Im trying to make. I keep using the word EXAMPLE and Ive said multiple times its not personal