It gets worse, apparently one of the women has ceased to cooperate with the authorities and her lawyer (and btw, who the heck is paying him? That guy is famous in Sweden and has been involved with high-profile cases in the past, getting his services is expensive. What's more, he represented the alleged victims pretty much as soon as the first accusations were raised).
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.
Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.
It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.
Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.
True- and torture is now a term of debate.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.
Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.
True- and torture is now a term of debate.
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.
Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.
True- and torture is now a term of debate.
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
I'm pretty sure that being held indefinitely without trial is not a reasonable punishment.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Symmetry wrote:It's disgusting. Speaking out against torture will get you fired, but actual torture won't.
Well, he was concerned that there may have been torture, but he wasn't sure, since the security agencies in charge/involved in such an affair aren't very transparent.
True- and torture is now a term of debate.
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
I'm pretty sure that being held indefinitely without trial is not a reasonable punishment.
You beat me to it there.
And BBS, he may not be beaten or waterboarded, but he is being held isolated, kept locked up for 23 hours per day, not allowed to exercise beyond spending the remaining hour/day walking around a room, he's not given any bedding and has lately had to sleep naked and present himself naked to the wardens in the morning. Last I heard he's also regularly "checked up on" at night to "make sure he's still alive".
Isolation, sleep deprivation, demeaning treatment, that doesn't sound anything like reasonable treatment for a suspect, even if he had been convicted it wouldn't be.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.
Or...you know...do the right thing.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?
From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.
Or...you know...do the right thing.
Would you say that he did the right thing?
Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.
Or...you know...do the right thing.
Would you say that he did the right thing?
Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.
Would you say that it's right for people to engage in treason if they're releasing state secrets?
BigBallinStalin wrote:Ah, I'll make note in personal notebook not to double-cross the US Intelligence Community.
Or...you know...do the right thing.
Would you say that he did the right thing?
Based on what I know of the situation, yes I would. Of course, I'm just guessing because I have access to only very limited information. Certainly, he did not do the right thing for HIMSELF. The military does not look kindly on being embarrassed.
Would you say that it's right for people to engage in treason if they're releasing state secrets?
I think it's entirely situational. If the state secrets entail the government doing illegal things, then I would say that it is treasonous NOT to release that information.
Sometimes, I think the Washington Post reporters would be sitting in prison somewhere if the Watergate scandal had broken in today's mindset.
Last edited by Woodruff on Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?
From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.
He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.
Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
BigBallinStalin wrote:
He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?
From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.
He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.
Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.
Well, they wouldn't want him committing suicide, now would they?
BigBallinStalin wrote:He's in solitary confinement for treason. This seems to me to be a reasonable punishment.
As far as I know, the prisoner isn't being beaten, water boarded, etc.
Manning is not in solitary confinement for treason. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted for any crime. I agree that his treatment is punishment, but he is still an innocent man until proven guilty. Perhaps the punishment should start after a fair trial? Until then, we can only agree on the fact that he's being punished without trial, right?
From what I've read from newspaper articles, he was booked with disseminating classified information. It would be pretty dumb for them to throw this charge on him, and then let him escape the US by not imprisoning him.
He's being held awaiting trial. Whatever evidence there is against him should be tested in court before punishment begins. As you have noted, solitary confinement is being used as punishment. This without any conviction.
Nobody is arguing that he should be allowed to flee the US. Being stripped naked every night and held in solitary for 23 hours a day is a different matter. That is punishment, and has nothing to do with him escaping custody.
Well, they wouldn't want him committing suicide, now would they?
I really shouldn't... Oh fuck it.
BBS, you're trolling. Now stfu.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
