The Dawn Of Ages - Quenched

[Kabanellas]

-Hellnor can only be reached by ports. Sea Dragon will only bombard Raider's Haven

-Well, I tried to do something like that (drawing some sort of fence), it just doesn't work at this scale..... What if I plant an 's' in each settlement?

Click image to enlarge.

[Kabanellas]

Waiting for Foundry guidance....

[RedBaron0]

You've got a very interesting map which also looks very complicated. I'm sure it'll be great to play once in circulation, but it'll be a little slow to pick up a following. Perhaps playing with the legend, trying a couple different configurations might make it a little easier to understand is something you can consider. I don't think it's bad at all, but not everyone reads map legends when playing, relying on BOB for everything.

The other part of it is there is a Midgard map that kinda fills that Tolken niche, but other than that there are only a few maps that involve magic or magical races. (AOR is a notable exception)

Do what you can to drum up support, and the people will come and take a look.

[porkenbeans]

You've got a very interesting map which also looks very complicated. I'm sure it'll be great to play once in circulation, but it'll be a little slow to pick up a following. Perhaps playing with the legend, trying a couple different configurations might make it a little easier to understand is something you can consider. I don't think it's bad at all, but not everyone reads map legends when playing, relying on BOB for everything.

The other part of it is there is a Midgard map that kinda fills that Tolken niche, but other than that there are only a few maps that involve magic or magical races. (AOR is a notable exception)

Do what you can to drum up support, and the people will come and take a look.

This was my concern as well. If the size of the legend was reduced, it would make for a more popular map. There are just so many different symbols, and this is what makes it complicated. Not that there is anything wrong with that per say, but you could pick up more interest if there were at least 50% less symbols to deal with. However, my favorite maps ARE the complicated ones, so do what you think is right. Check out Prohibition Chicago. It is a complicated map, but not so complicated that it needs 15 different symbols.

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Baron and Porken!

Well, I just don’t know where to cut it off. I find every feature/symbol important to the map both in gameplay and concept.

-I need to have a settlement for every race (Elves, Humans, Orcs, Raiders) – 4 symbols
-every Settlement has to combine with its own military Training Ground – 4 symbols more
-I can’t leave out the Dwarfs - 1 symbol
-neither both Towers – 2 symbols

Other symbols will just spice the history and game-play a bit

-House of Gods
-Raiders’ Haven

I still believe that this is not so complicated that a player couldn’t get into it by reading the legend for a while.

[RedBaron0]

You're probably right Kab, take a look at it again when you get to work primarily on graphics.

As for gameplay, You've assured there can't be a bonus dropped on the start with your starting neutrals. 32 available territories to be divided among the players will mean no matter the game everyone starts with a 3 army territory bonus. Good stuff

It's going to take time to figure out, I keep looking back and forth to make sure I understand it. So the more you explain it to all of us, the more and more we'll all get it. Just from the look of the map the only gameplay issue I can see is the House of the Gods. There isn't any compelling reason to go out there, it's just an +1 auto deploy that can bombard the 2 towers. You can get armies out there, but they can't get off the island. It'd be a nice place to hide... but could create a massive stalemate issue since a player that gets stuck out there can get cards by killing the killer neutrals, or bombarding the towers. Someone out there can just build up cashing card sets and the game could go on forever. Allowing a way off the island that makes sense would be a good idea. A suggestion on that, one of the things that might be missing here that is Tolkenish are the Eagle's; maybe a spot on the mountains for a Eagle's nest or rookery?

Of course I could have missed something that allows for a way off the island. Keep up the good work!

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot Baron

I think the HOG (house of gods) will be a pretty balanced feature.... will give 1 a/d bonus (that you can’t take out of there) - on the other side to reach it you’ll have to kill 3+2 neutral troops. Its owner could keep getting a card against any tower, but it’s not like he or she can’t be reached, only 3 neutral killers stand between them and any other power....

As for the Eagles... well... and what about the Ents (those huge ancient trees that destroyed Isengard) – Tolkien world id far too rich to be all represented here

[porkenbeans]

Those trees are my favorite. I just love the whole premise behind them. How they can just set back and watch as the eons roll by. I would love to see them represented somehow, even if they were not a part of the game play, per say. That would go towards their premise of not getting involved, in the petty, insignificant wars and squabbles, of everyone else.

[Kabanellas]

one could always say that they are represented in Logoth by that one way assault…

[RedBaron0]

Ok, then the only concern I have with HOG is going to be, if you're out there, if you lose the rest of your territories on the map, you effectively lose the game, and can be killed at leisure by another player. I'm just afraid if that happens regularly, you'll get those players that are stuck out there just deadbeating since they know they can't win.

[AndrewB]

Exactly same thing happens in San Francisco, to whoever is locked in Alcatraz and several other maps (WWII Ardenes etc).

At least here u need to conquer HOG first, where as Alcatraz is dealt from the beginning.

[RedBaron0]

True, if you choose to go out there, you'll run that risk.

[iancanton]

we must not have 2 or more regions, like house of gods and sea dragon, that trap their troops and can assault nothing at all. an example is where red has house of gods, green has sea dragon and blue has everything else: if blue deadbeats, then neither red nor green can win by normal means and the only thing they can do is keep deploying and wait for the other player to miss 3 turns, which might take years.

we can solve this one by making house of gods and sea dragon able to bombard each other, or by letting hellnor and sea dragon assault the ports (two-way, not one-way). of course, there are other ways too!

ian.

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Ian! I'll sort it out soon.

[paulk]

Looks interesting. I like the look of the map.

[Kabanellas]

we must not have 2 or more regions, like house of gods and sea dragon, that trap their troops and can assault nothing at all. an example is where red has house of gods, green has sea dragon and blue has everything else: if blue deadbeats, then neither red nor green can win by normal means and the only thing they can do is keep deploying and wait for the other player to miss 3 turns, which might take years.

we can solve this one by making house of gods and sea dragon able to bombard each other, or by letting hellnor and sea dragon assault the ports (two-way, not one-way). of course, there are other ways too!

ian.

What if the House of Gods can bombard the sea Dragon as well... This way, if blue deadbeats, red will be able to kill green from the House of Gods.

P.S - thanks Paulk!

[iancanton]

that will do it!

ian.

[Kabanellas]

ok, latest update with recently purposed changes:

Version 13

Click image to enlarge.

[iancanton]

the stalemate problem has been solved!

i'd been looking at this map for over a week (not continuously!) before i realised that the mountains, all (except one) of which have an army circle, weren't playable regions (for example, i mistakenly thought that edin-na-zu could be one-way assaulted by damkianna mountain gateway). maybe something in the wording of the legend needs changing: i'd replace dwarves' gateways can one way assault the regions they're built in by dwarves' gateways can one-way assault the surrounding region, to emphasise that each gateway is surrounded by only one region and cannot assault anything else (ignoring the tunnels). in the legend, a little drawing of a mountain range beside the words unplayable area might also be helpful.

having said that, i commend andrewb for his work in applying his bonus calculator to this map. the result is a series of small bonuses that create varied gameplay opportunities. with various bombardment schemes and one-way attacks, kabanellas has clearly ensured that there are many ways to win and, even by examining the map closely, i find it hard to fault the chances that are available from any starting point.



ian.

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot Ian! I’ll go for that suggestion and change the actual legend

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, this map is very dear to me. It was a passionate project to start and work on, I’m tremendously grateful to AndrewB for all his guidance throughout all this process. He is indeed a great partner for someone to have.

It wouldn’t be fair not to extend my thanks to porkenbeans for the huge interest demonstrated for this project, reflected in some very good ideas on how to give a more dramatic and appealing look to the background parchment, which resulted very beautiful in the end.

[porkenbeans]

[AndrewB]

Thx everyone! And most importantly to Kabanellas for this awesome work!

[Kabanellas]

Posting Version 14:

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[Kabanellas]

...what more does it take for the Graphics stamp?

[RedBaron0]

Patience.

Everyone will keep looking at the maps and find those little things to quick fix.... like the "L" in Tower of Control on the small map is partially missing, I think it's just blended with the border or was typed lower case by accident. And any other nitpicks like... the burntish looking part is very close to the dwarves tunnel path in the Tower of Doom territory and blending together. The dwarves path going under the mountains in the same area could be little brighter and more noticeable. And perhaps the background on the bottom of the map is smidgen too dark making the text kinda hard to read, especially on the smaller map.

Just some quick fixes, nothing major.