[GP] Undo, Redo, Mulligan, Take Back Options

[DaGip]

New postby blakebowling on Fri May 16, 2008 6:14 pm
right just install bob and you will get a confirm screen

Like i said before I am not allowed to install anything on my computer at work...so if there was another way cause i also have the touchy mouse problem as well just a little accidental movement and armies are placed somewhere else at the last second. And also In the real game in person this would never happen so i don't believe that accidental drops are really part of the game.

It's part of the CC online game, just one of those things that differentiates CC from Risk. If Lack decides to change the army drop to be less accident prone then I am all for it, at the same time if he doesn't do anything about it I am alright with that as well. I think the Undo Button is a little much for CC as you have already placed your armies. The only way I can possibly see this being fair is if the programming gave you a second chance somehow to confirm the location and number of armies you are going to drop.

[Renee_W]

Being mistake prone is NOT a feature.

[cicero]

This whole thread centres around a player making mistakes ...
But surely we all make mistakes? I make mistakes, you make mistakes, we all make mistakes.

If the design of the player/game interface was seriously flawed in some way then we could fix it. (Though not, as Andy points out, by using something as clumsy as a confirmation dialog.) I don't think it is seriously flawed.

If the design of the player/game interface though not seriously flawed could be changed, improved in some people's subjective opinion, by an extra level of reassuring security then a plug in/add on could be produced to add this. I think we have this in BOB.

If BOB doesn't do quite what we would like it to do then by all means post a feature suggestion in the BOB thread.

If the feature suggestion doesn't get taken supported by the community and implemented ...

... well we all make mistakes.


I guess what I'm saying in the end is: "Is it really something in the CC half of the interface that is causing these mistakes? [And which should be fixed by the CC half.] Or is it something in the player half? [Which can only realistically be addressed by the player.]".

[DaGip]

This whole thread centres around a player making mistakes ...
But surely we all make mistakes? I make mistakes, you make mistakes, we all make mistakes.

If the design of the player/game interface was seriously flawed in some way then we could fix it. (Though not, as Andy points out, by using something as clumsy as a confirmation dialog.) I don't think it is seriously flawed.

If the design of the player/game interface though not seriously flawed could be changed, improved in some people's subjective opinion, by an extra level of reassuring security then a plug in/add on could be produced to add this. I think we have this in BOB.

If BOB doesn't do quite what we would like it to do then by all means post a feature suggestion in the BOB thread.

If the feature suggestion doesn't get taken supported by the community and implemented ...

... well we all make mistakes.

I guess what I'm saying in the end is: "Is it really something in the CC half of the interface that is causing these mistakes? [And which should be fixed by the CC half.] Or is it something in the player half? [Which can only realistically be addressed by the player.]".

I would have to answer that as it is a player's mistake and not CC's. As annoying as it is to make a mistake (misread, wrong location, trick mouse, etc.) it really isn't the realm of ConquerClub to have to accommodate for people's own mistakes. I have done it, you have done it, we have all done it, and we can all remember the worst friggin' times in which we have made those mistakes. Mine are burned into my brain, but they are very few in number. Sometimes the misdrop actually works in your favor through happenstance (the other players may have been expecting you to drop exactly where you wanted to drop and then--BOOM!--there's 20 guys half way across the board! Everybody has to adjust their strategies according to your blunder, and it might actually help you win. That has happened more often to me than a losing drop. But I tend to really remember the losing misdrops more than the winning misdrops.)

And I am sorry, but I have to disagree with it not being a feature, because it is. It's one of those things that can make your CC experience very memorable.

Undo Button--no
Bank Option--Yes! http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... =4&t=50961

[Renee_W]

I'll reiterate mistakes are NOT a feature. There are mistakes caused by player intent not being wise and by player use of the interface generating results that do not match player intent. CC should do everything it can to prevent mistakes that do not match player intent if such solutions do not allow players to undo mistakes that were player intent. Not many mistakes offer this opportunity but deployments in sequential can be undone before any other actions are taken without given the player an advantage by doing so.

[DaGip]

I'll reiterate mistakes are NOT a feature. There are mistakes caused by player intent not being wise and by player use of the interface generating results that do not match player intent. CC should do everything it can to prevent mistakes that do not match player intent if such solutions do not allow players to undo mistakes that were player intent. Not many mistakes offer this opportunity but deployments in sequential can be undone before any other actions are taken without given the player an advantage by doing so.

It's not a feature in the sense that Conquer Club offers or supplies it, but it is a feature of the nature of the game. Humans make mistakes and they misdrop troops on Alcatraz, or they accidentally misread a territory. That is a feature in my book and it is one of many nuances that differentiates CC from table top Risk.

Making a crucial move in a CC game should never be done in a rush-type of situation, no matter how excited you get to make the move.

With me, I knew my computer at work had a touchy hair triggered mouse, so I just should have waited the extra hour until I got home to make the play, but I was so excited to win the game that I took the chance and played on the company computer anyway. Then, of course, the inevitable misdrop situation occurred and I lost that friggin' game! I didn't sleep all night, that's how emotionally upset I was over losing that stupid game! It's just a game, but your emotions get so worked up over misdrops like that that you want to smash the computer to bits (or wish there was an Undo Button feature).

I can see how people would like a Do Over, but the reality is that the system in place is fine. The mistakes are being made by the players and NOT the site.

What is the main feature of Conquer Club, Risk, Monopoly, going to the movies, etc..? The main feature of any of these things is to be entertained or amused. Misdropping troops doesn't sound all that amusing, until you let the shock wear off a bit, and then those are the moments that make your CC experience all that more memorable.

Accidental misdrops are not a direct feature, but an indirect. And not having a system in place to allow people to Do Over, therefore, makes accidental misdrops a feature of CC.

If CC had an Undo Button feature, then the accidental misdrops would no longer be a feature in Conquer Club.

I enjoy the misdrop feature that is indirectly manifest in Conquer Club, and I would even like to see a map that embraces these exact features that annoy so many!

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 63&t=51429

[cicero]

I'll reiterate mistakes are NOT a feature. There are mistakes caused by player intent not being wise and by player use of the interface generating results that do not match player intent. CC should do everything it can to prevent mistakes that do not match player intent if such solutions do not allow players to undo mistakes that were player intent. Not many mistakes offer this opportunity but deployments in sequential can be undone before any other actions are taken without given the player an advantage by doing so.

Renee

Of course mistakes are not a 'feature' of the Conquer Club gaming experience. I agree.
In my previous post the point I was trying to make was that if the mistakes were caused by flaws on the CC side of the player/game interface then it would be right that CC took action to redress this.

However it seems to me that the mistakes we are discussing are caused by flaws on the player side of the interface. In which case it really is the player that needs to take action to redress this.

I'm not trying to make this personal, so please read this as constructive comment base on my own experience:
I've played about 150 games I think. I've misdeployed maybe once or twice. It's not a big deal. Sure it's annoying at the time, but I recognise it as my own mistake and take more care. I'm a BOB user which offers confirmations for deployment, auto-attack and phase end. As it happens I play with only the phase end confirmation switched on. [Misdeployment is so rare for me that I don't want a confirmation box every turn. And I know where the auto-attack button is; it's the one with "auto attack" on it . But I keep phase end on since I do occasionally forget to take a card or, in big sweeping games, make all my attacks on one front only to forget those on another front.]

If there are players who mis-deploy much more frequently than I, and hence it is spoiling their game experience, I really think it should be down to the player to address this.

[Renee_W]

Making a crucial move in a CC game should never be done in a rush-type of situation, no matter how excited you get to make the move.

Like speed games with only 5 minutes to take your turn? That's all i play.

If there are players who mis-deploy much more frequently than I, and hence it is spoiling their game experience, I really think it should be down to the player to address this.

Why should the interface not be improved just because players can work around it?

[Thezzaruz]

Why should the interface not be improved just because players can work around it?

Because ineptitude is the players fault and not the sites?

[Renee_W]

Misreading similar unfamiliar Russian names is not ineptitude.

Having the page automatically refresh and undo your settings is not ineptitude.

[Mr_Adams]

Basic idea:

Be able to undo a fortification if you catch the mistake before you attack again.
For attacking part of turn only (As it can be done already in unlimited fortification, and could be abused in adjacent/chained.)

Only available in sequential, as it can be abused in free style.

Why?

Because I'm sick of attacking Peru, and then accidentally fortifying there, when my next attack need to be North Africa.

I just lost a game to a cook, in whic I could have won if this were possible....

[Thezzaruz]

Firstly I'd say that you should read up a bit on the terminology. You have never been allowed to attack after you have fortified.

And secondly, IMO mistakes should be punished. If you don't pay attention you will screw up and I've done it as have most others, just deal with it.

[FabledIntegral]

I disagree, because this would be abused in freestyle speed games.

[Mr_Adams]

true...

[blakebowling]

Firstly I'd say that you should read up a bit on the terminology. You have never been allowed to attack after you have fortified.

I think he means when you move right after attacking.

[dustn64]

I disagree, because this would be abused in freestyle speed games.

^ reason why it will be closed in a few minutes ^

[blakebowling]

it could also be a game option(haha i've said that a lot in here)

[Thezzaruz]

I think he means when you move right after attacking.

He probably does, that's why I told him to get it right (it's called "advancing" btw).

[lord voldemort]

no way..just dont be crap

[White Moose]

Firstly I'd say that you should read up a bit on the terminology. You have never been allowed to attack after you have fortified.

He means advance the troops, then attack again.

[spicyblue]

Why should the interface not be improved just because players can work around it?

Because ineptitude is the players fault and not the sites?

Does it even matter whose fault it is? I think everyone can agree that mis-deploys happen, however infrequent (and are almost always the player's fault. Except for the case of freestyle games does it even matter if you can undo deploy? Even if you deployed exactly where you thought you wanted, then after taking a second look at the map you see a better place shouldn't you be able to undo that deploy... I know when I'm playing the board game with friends I always allow them to undo their deploy (before they attack).

When I win a match I want it to be because I played better, not because my opponent misread the map.

[spicyblue]

I think the undo button is worth it, but only in sequential games and only to undo deployment and only before any attack is made. The fact mis-deploys happen, even if it's your own careless fault. I can't get through a day w/o using ctrl+z 200 times.... and 198 of those mistakes were my won fault, that doesn't take away from the fact that the undo was useful, and as long as it's fair I think it should be added.

[cicero]

Merged:

undo - posts 28 December 2007 to 30 December 2007 (and today) - first post here
UNDO DROP - posts 15 May 2007 and 19 May 2007 (and today) - first post here

With thanks to spicyblue who helpfully posted in both (today) and bumped them to the top of the pile

Cicero

[Megadeth666]

A redo button when, you made a bad deploy and said "OH CHIT I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT".
An Edit button when, you write something in comments and said"OH FLUCK I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT"
Probably been asked before but I could not find a thread.

[killmanic]

A redo button when, you made an attack and said "OH CHIT I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT".
An Edit button when, you write something in comments and said"OH FLUCK I DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT"
Probably been asked before but I could not find a thread.

umm the redo one could be abused, i attacked 20 vs 10 and lost, wish that didnt happen let me undo that and try again