How is what Jesus did different than 'suicide by cop'

Cronus · Post by **Cronus** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:26 pm

Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:28 pm

Martyrdom is different to suicide.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:31 pm

You could eat it but, there's no nutritional value and it doesn't taste good so why would you?

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:33 pm

Cronus wrote:Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.

Is this for real or are you just trying to have a little fun?

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:38 pm

Cronus wrote:Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.

This is ridiculous. I mean come on.

Suicide is a mortal sin because it connotates killing oneself to escape from the world.

Self-sacrifice is something very different. By your logic, a man who jumps on a grenade to save his squadmates is suicidal and deserves to go to Hell. Generally not the case. It's written somewhere in the Bible that there is no greater act of love than to sacrifice one's life for a friend.

Blastshot · Post by **Blastshot** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:43 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Cronus wrote:Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.
This is ridiculous. I mean come on.

Suicide is a mortal sin because it connotates killing oneself to escape from the world.

Self-sacrifice is something very different. By your logic, a man who jumps on a grenade to save his squadmates is suicidal and deserves to go to Hell. Generally not the case. It's written somewhere in the Bible that there is no greater act of love than to sacrifice one's life for a friend.

muy_thaiguy · Post by **muy_thaiguy** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:56 pm

Blastshot wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Cronus wrote:Jesus knew what was going to happen to him and that his rabble rousing was going to get him killed by the authorities and he knew exactly how it was going to happen. Jesus therefore did everything in order to insure his death by crucifixtion and is therefore a suicide and should have been sent straight to hell.
This is ridiculous. I mean come on.

Suicide is a mortal sin because it connotates killing oneself to escape from the world.

Self-sacrifice is something very different. By your logic, a man who jumps on a grenade to save his squadmates is suicidal and deserves to go to Hell. Generally not the case. It's written somewhere in the Bible that there is no greater act of love than to sacrifice one's life for a friend.

QFT

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:02 pm

Let me say now, I am not trying to be flippant. But here's my question.

Would suicide, in the service of the Lord, be considered martyrdom?

For example, if a man has the choice between killing himself and renouncing his faith.

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:02 pm

This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think

salvadevinemasse · Post by **salvadevinemasse** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:03 pm

Okay..
Jesus lied about being king of the Jews.. Therefore didn't he break 1 of the 10 commandments? *thou shalt not lie* I mean I could be mistaken but that is a commandment right?

So say you were king of the Jews, some jerk calls you out says your not the king when you clearly are.. But the Jews didn't kill him did they? Because he got knocked out from loss of blood so they considered him dead.. Is every one who ends up in a coma going to become another Jesus if they come back out? Damn thats A LOT of people who've been put to sleep to pay for our sins!

Why is it anytime that the dad wont pay child support, hes an asshole... Yet god knocks someone up and he doesn't have to? Thats such BS and any one who thinks its wonderful that god doesn't pay child support doesn't understand how hard a job it is to be a single parent. Only reason I know is because I have several friends who are going through it!

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:14 pm

Technically, he didn't ever call himself King of the Jews, the Romans called him that to ridicule him.

They saw his preaching about the "Kingdom of God" as an ego trip designed to undermine the Empire, which is why they crucified him.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:17 pm

Reminds me of the heavens gate guy.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:19 pm

vtmarick wrote: Would suicide, in the service of the Lord, be considered martyrdom?

For example, if a man has the choice between killing himself and renouncing his faith.

I'm not sure I can think of a situation in which service to the Lord required suicide.

In the example you cited, the best choice would be neither. Let your captors kill you and do with you as they wish.

But were there such a situation, suicide is clearly better than renouncing faith. However, suicide to escape torture, for instance, would be considered a sin.

nagerous wrote:This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think

We answered the original post, and at that pretty politely, given that it seems to be a snide post to begin with.

salvadevinemasse wrote:<the whole post>

Come again?

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:20 pm

unriggable wrote:Reminds me of the heavens gate guy.

I'm sure you probably knew this already, but just in case...one of the member's of that cult was the brother of the lady who played Lt. Uhura on Star Trek.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:21 pm

salvadevinemasse wrote:Okay..
Jesus lied about being king of the Jews.. Therefore didn't he break 1 of the 10 commandments? *thou shalt not lie* I mean I could by mistaken but that is a commandment right?

Thou shalt not bear false witness

He didn't say he was, nor did he say he was son of god.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:25 pm

nagerous wrote:This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think

Apparently, you're still a little dazed after those piledrivers you received from Jerry Lawler.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:28 pm

luns101 wrote:
unriggable wrote:Reminds me of the heavens gate guy.
I'm sure you probably knew this already, but just in case...one of the member's of that cult was the brother of the lady who played Lt. Uhura on Star Trek.

Uh, so? I never watched star trek.

luns101 wrote:
nagerous wrote:This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think
Apparently, you're still a little dazed after those piledrivers you received from Jerry Lawler.

You must still be dazed from the lies you've been told by Jerry Falwell.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:28 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I'm not sure I can think of a situation in which service to the Lord required suicide.

In the example you cited, the best choice would be neither. Let your captors kill you and do with you as they wish.

But were there such a situation, suicide is clearly better than renouncing faith. However, suicide to escape torture, for instance, would be considered a sin.

So there are absolutely no circumstances where one can choose, of their own free will, to end their lives and make it to paradise (or at the very least purgatory)?

salvadevinemasse · Post by **salvadevinemasse** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:29 pm

Okay, your right.. Although my mom read it 5 times and always said thou shalt not lie was in it.. but maybe that was her way of keeping us on the right path?

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:30 pm

vtmarik wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:I'm not sure I can think of a situation in which service to the Lord required suicide.

In the example you cited, the best choice would be neither. Let your captors kill you and do with you as they wish.

But were there such a situation, suicide is clearly better than renouncing faith. However, suicide to escape torture, for instance, would be considered a sin.
So there are absolutely no circumstances where one can choose, of their own free will, to end their lives and make it to paradise (or at the very least purgatory)?

It depends on motive, I suppose. If the motive is anything other than self-sacrifice, I'd have to say no. But I'm not the one who'll be judging you.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:30 pm

The ten commandments are vague so they can be used for seemingly unimportant things and so they can easily be avoided. I'm pretty sure the son of god thing was added later, he was simply called son of god first by his apostles.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:34 pm

unriggable wrote:
luns101 wrote:
unriggable wrote:Reminds me of the heavens gate guy.
I'm sure you probably knew this already, but just in case...one of the member's of that cult was the brother of the lady who played Lt. Uhura on Star Trek.
Uh, so? I never watched star trek.

luns101 wrote:
nagerous wrote:This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think
Apparently, you're still a little dazed after those piledrivers you received from Jerry Lawler.
You must still be dazed from the lies you've been told by Jerry Falwell.

The defender of Christian-haters everywhere has arrived!

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:35 pm

luns101 wrote:
unriggable wrote:
luns101 wrote:
unriggable wrote:Reminds me of the heavens gate guy.
I'm sure you probably knew this already, but just in case...one of the member's of that cult was the brother of the lady who played Lt. Uhura on Star Trek.
Uh, so? I never watched star trek.

luns101 wrote:
nagerous wrote:This thread is funny because the complete concept of the thread is absurd yet all the Jesus Freaks got their knickers in a twist that their "great Lord" had been insulted. Totally worth it I think
Apparently, you're still a little dazed after those piledrivers you received from Jerry Lawler.
You must still be dazed from the lies you've been told by Jerry Falwell.
The defender of Christian-haters everywhere has arrived!

No you just accept these ideas by default because thats what you were taught as a child, like defenders of any religion. I could probably get a child to believe in the space teapot while I'm at it.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:38 pm

unriggable wrote:No you just accept these ideas by default because thats what you were taught as a child, like defenders of any religion. I could probably get a child to believe in the space teapot while I'm at it.

Obviously, you didn't read my testimony in previous threads.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:39 pm

luns101 wrote:
unriggable wrote:No you just accept these ideas by default because thats what you were taught as a child, like defenders of any religion. I could probably get a child to believe in the space teapot while I'm at it.
Obviously, you didn't read my testimony in previous threads.

I did but not much of it relied on non-biblical accounts. Besides, you seem to reject the gnostic tales, which are equally valid.

How is what Jesus did different than 'suicide by cop'

How is what Jesus did different than 'suicide by cop'

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