UK Big Brother racism row

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:53 am

One of the house mates (white) was evicted for using the N word from the UKs Big Brother today.

She said it apparently in a joking way (while dancing to an R 'n B song) to a black housemate.

Obviously after the previous Big Brother racism row in the celebrity version this has once again made the news.

Was it the right action? Can racism be tolerated in any shape - even a joking manor? What would have happened if a black house mate used the word - is there a difference?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6729673.stm

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:58 am

ok it might have been a joke but after the sensitive issue following racist bullying of shilpa shetty in celebrity big brother I believe the right action was taken in this incident.

strike wolf · Post by **strike wolf** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:00 am

This is a hard one for me to call so I just voted for the third option.

Dariune · Post by **Dariune** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:02 am

Personally i think this PC stuff is getting a little out of hand.
So i voted no.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:03 am

Meh. Stupid bitch shouldn't have been silly enough to use the word on the box. They were all obviously aware of the previous racism row, and anyone with an ounce of sense in their head must have known that they could not tolerate any language of that kind being used even in jest. Channel 4 had no choice, really, else they'd have faced further and more intense criticism. Whatever the motivation (which I'm sure was innocent), she was a prime idiot.

firth4eva · Post by **firth4eva** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:04 am

Guiscard wrote:Meh. Stupid bitch shouldn't have been silly enough to use the word on the box. They were all obviously aware of the previous racism row, and anyone with an ounce of sense in their head must have known that they could not tolerate any language of that kind being used even in jest. Channel 4 had no choice, really, else they'd have faced further and more intense criticism. Whatever the motivation (which I'm sure was innocent), she was a prime idiot.

they could have covered it up

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:05 am

I don't really watch BB, but my girlfriend said that the girl was really annoying; and the BBC says that she was a Tory and a drama student, which in book is grounds enough for evicting her without her also being a member of the KKK. So I voted yes, with a pinch of salt.

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:15 am

firth4eva wrote:
Guiscard wrote:Meh. Stupid bitch shouldn't have been silly enough to use the word on the box. They were all obviously aware of the previous racism row, and anyone with an ounce of sense in their head must have known that they could not tolerate any language of that kind being used even in jest. Channel 4 had no choice, really, else they'd have faced further and more intense criticism. Whatever the motivation (which I'm sure was innocent), she was a prime idiot.
they could have covered it up

Apparently it didn't go out live on T.V. but you know what the papers are like, they would have found out some way and it would have looked even worse.

I personally agree with Guiscard that Channel 4 had no option but to boot her after the row the last time, personally I think worse things happened on previous Big Brothers, but I don't think we should tolerate the use of this kind of language on T.V.

I'm not Black, and I accept that there is an argument from Black culture that they have moved to reclaim the word and give it new meaning to empower them, but I still feel uncomfortable with its widespread use in T.V, films and Music.

Its not a word I would use, jokingly or not, and not one I want to hear on T.V.

(Not that I would hear it on Big Brother as I don't watch it at all, no siree.

)

hammockboy1 · Post by **hammockboy1** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:18 am

America's will start in July, wonder if the same thing will happen

WE have had threatened murders before

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:27 pm

Yeah, she had to go. They were warned of this action, espeicially since the last show.

But, the black house mate should also have been evicted, since she has numerously used this slur, and i am offended by this casual use of an offensive term.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:13 pm

I haven't seen the footage yet (though I gather it won't be shown until tonight) but this strikes me as an open-and-shut case, anyway - the girl had to go. But I get the impression this situation is different from the Shilpa Shetty one, as that was straightforward racism.

flashleg8 wrote:I'm not Black, and I accept that there is an argument from Black culture that they have moved to reclaim the word and give it new meaning to empower them, but I still feel uncomfortable with its widespread use in T.V, films and Music.

I gather the girl who used the word used it in the familiar manner that (some) black people use it with each other. I can't say I've ever seen a convincing argument for why black people should try to "reclaim" the word. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I can't imagine what form an argument would take to convince me.

At any rate, this is one obvious consequence of attempting to reclaim it - you can't have one rule for some, and one rule for others. People who aren't black will think it's OK for them to use it too.

If what Norse says is true (and I haven't checked yet), then soon we will see complaints from the usual suspects about how the white girl has been unfairly treated.

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:25 pm

Stopper wrote:If what Norse says is true (and I haven't checked yet), then soon we will see complaints from the usual suspects about how the white girl has been unfairly treated.

Stupid Kaizer Soze, sticking his nose in everywhere. Just can't shut the guy up, it's always 'racism this' or 'racism that'... goddam him.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:26 pm

firth4eva wrote:
Guiscard wrote:Meh. Stupid bitch shouldn't have been silly enough to use the word on the box. They were all obviously aware of the previous racism row, and anyone with an ounce of sense in their head must have known that they could not tolerate any language of that kind being used even in jest. Channel 4 had no choice, really, else they'd have faced further and more intense criticism. Whatever the motivation (which I'm sure was innocent), she was a prime idiot.
they could have covered it up

It was her own fault for being stupid enough to say it. Anyway, it will get them more viewers.

strike wolf · Post by **strike wolf** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:28 pm

Having heard everyone's opinion, it sounds like because of earlier claims of racism that they did have a legitimate reason for evicting her. It just another example of how a small incident can seem like a huge deal when it's linked to a similar event.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:33 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:
Stopper wrote:If what Norse says is true (and I haven't checked yet), then soon we will see complaints from the usual suspects about how the white girl has been unfairly treated.
Stupid Kaizer Soze, sticking his nose in everywhere. Just can't shut the guy up, it's always 'racism this' or 'racism that'... goddam him.

That was sheer laziness on my part - for anyone who wants to know, I meant the likes of Garry Bushell, Richard Littlejohn, Nick Griffin and so on...

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:00 pm

Guiscard wrote:Meh. Stupid bitch shouldn't have been silly enough to use the word on the box. They were all obviously aware of the previous racism row, and anyone with an ounce of sense in their head must have known that they could not tolerate any language of that kind being used even in jest. Channel 4 had no choice, really, else they'd have faced further and more intense criticism. Whatever the motivation (which I'm sure was innocent), she was a prime idiot.

hear hear

What an absolute and utter fuckwit. I haven't watched BB at all this year but i read the transcript. i don't think the girl to whom she addressed this insensitive verbiage was too happy about it. Would you use it in a jokey way to a black person you hardly knew? Would you use it ever at all?
I mean Ice Cube uses it all the time but that doesn't greenlight me to call him that the next time we meet. if i did i would exepct to find a cap popped into my ass without hesitation.

Dariune · Post by **Dariune** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:09 pm

find a cap popped into my ass without hesitation

That just brings up the funniest images in my head

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:17 pm

Stopper wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:
Stopper wrote:If what Norse says is true (and I haven't checked yet), then soon we will see complaints from the usual suspects about how the white girl has been unfairly treated.
Stupid Kaizer Soze, sticking his nose in everywhere. Just can't shut the guy up, it's always 'racism this' or 'racism that'... goddam him.

That was sheer laziness on my part - for anyone who wants to know, I meant the likes of Garry Bushell, Richard Littlejohn, Nick Griffin and so on...

Some great examples given there. Anyone who thinks that consistency in judgement on these issues must be a right wing nut-bag. Them damned white devils.

I couldn't care less about this particular case, but it's another example of poor quality entertainment, spectaclising no-brainers to appease half-wit viewers.

note Im not sure if spectaclising is a word.

debra79 · Post by **debra79** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:42 pm

I'm not black, so obviously the word means less to me than it would a "coloured" person, but I think it depends on the context in which it was spoken as to whether or not it really was intended as an insult. But that's just me, and I don't easily get offended by the words of others.

Why the hell do we use the word "coloured" to describe dark skinned people, by the way? We're all coloured!

Jenos Ridan · Post by **Jenos Ridan** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:17 pm

flashleg8 wrote:Can racism be tolerated in any shape - even a joking manor? What would have happened if a black house mate used the word - is there a difference?

Racism cannot be tolerated. But that PC stuff has to stop.

If a black person said it, I doubt it would be treated the same.

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:27 pm

Just watched the programme on Channel 4 just now, and to be honest they had no choice after all the controversy earlier this year. I thought it was a little harsh as she didn't intend to be insulting and it looks like she was grown up with people calling each other that. But she had to go.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:33 pm

Norse wrote:Some great examples given there. Anyone who thinks that consistency in judgement on these issues must be a right wing nut-bag. Them damned white devils.

I didn't say they'd advocate consistency in judgement, but I suppose I did imply that they're right-wing nut-bags who might make the most of an issue like this. Which is what I meant. Unless you'd differ, as the tone of your response suggests you would. In which case, you should come right out with it, instead of making half-arsed insinuations.

debra79 wrote:I'm not black, so obviously the word means less to me than it would a "coloured" person, but I think it depends on the context in which it was spoken as to whether or not it really was intended as an insult. But that's just me, and I don't easily get offended by the words of others.

I'd disagree. I think the meaning of the word in question is well-understood by everyone who uses it, regardless of the context.

debra79 wrote:Why the hell do we use the word "coloured" to describe dark skinned people, by the way? We're all coloured!

They don't, and given that you aren't South African, according to your profile, I don't know why you think anyone does - in polite company, at any rate.

debra79 · Post by **debra79** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:42 pm

What is not being South African got to do with the price of fish in China? Although my partner's family are from Africa, so don't shoot your mouth off before you know a person's full history.

And communication is a two way process, where the message sent is not always the same message received. Words have no meaning without context, but you're quite welcome to disagree, that's what's great about this wonderful wide world we live in.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:52 pm

debra79 wrote:What is not being South African got to do with the price of fish in China? Although my partner's family are from Africa, so don't shoot your mouth off before you know a person's full history.

And communication is a two way process, where the message sent is not always the same message received. Words have no meaning without context, but you're quite welcome to disagree, that's what's great about this wonderful wide world we live in.

The only English-speaking country where dictionaries do not define the term "coloured" as "offensive" is South Africa. But more to the point, all English-speakers (except in South Africa) know to be careful if they're going to use the term "coloured". Only greatly advanced age will prevent you from being thought of as trying to be deliberately racist.

Furthermore, I don't give a flying f*ck where your partner's family comes from, and don't see why it's relevant.

That's what the price of fish in China has to do with it.

I can't be bothered with your second paragraph. Bollocks to your attempts at propitiation, when you've been deliberately provocative in your first.

debra79 · Post by **debra79** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:55 pm

Umm....ok-ay!! I have no idea what you're getting on your soap box about. I haven't said anything deliberately provocational at all. I know the term "coloured" is offensive, and I was merely wondering why people even use that term to segregate people when we're all coloured!

I think you're a tad touchy and only read what you want out of my post. I make no apologies for your incomprehension. I think what you interpreted as racism was actually intended as sarcasm, hence the use of talking marks around the word....so I repeat, the message sent is not always the message received...and it's even more likely to occur in written messages.

UK Big Brother racism row

Should the housemate have been evicted?

UK Big Brother racism row

Re: UK Big Brother racism row