US Public Schools... suck.

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:09 am

.. The state of US public schools - a terrifying video for parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

... It's a long video (40 mins), but well worth watching if you've got kids.

... We spend more per public school kid than nearly any other nation, and yet we absolutely suck when compared to our peers overseas.

... Misuse of money, union monopolization, irrelevance of school performance and no competition among schools ... It's a complete mess and it's screwing our kids.

...

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:18 am

Nobunaga wrote:.. The state of US public schools - a terrifying video for parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

... It's a long video (40 mins), but well worth watching if you've got kids.

... We spend more per public school kid than nearly any other nation, and yet we absolutely suck when compared to our peers overseas.

... Misuse of money, union monopolization, irrelevance of school performance and no competition among schools ... It's a complete mess and it's screwing our kids.

...

US kids aren't being screwed, but they aren't getting the best deal either. They still do remarkably well, just not as well as other comparable systems. Competition between schools is probably not hugely relevant though- most kids just go to the school that's closest. Some might have options, but only between a small handful.

john9blue · Post by **john9blue** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:20 am

i'm more happy than ever that i got to go to a private high school... although i can't really say whether it would have had a significant impact on my intelligence.

nietzsche · Post by **nietzsche** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:21 am

I can't imagine having a son and having to send him to a public school.. *shivers*.

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:26 am

I'm no fan of public schools (graduated from one in upstate New York), but to put the blame solely on it is ridiculous. We have a lot of problems that other countries don't, pretty much because the US is unlike most other countries.

Oh, and at 4:31: "I think I did WELL*."

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:33 am

Personally, I think all current math teachers in Columbus Ohio should be fired. They are a plague upon the earth and make nietzsche cry.

thegreekdog · Post by **thegreekdog** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:50 pm

Army of GOD wrote:I'm no fan of public schools (graduated from one in upstate New York), but to put the blame solely on it is ridiculous. We have a lot of problems that other countries don't, pretty much because the US is unlike most other countries.

Oh, and at 4:31: "I think I did WELL*."

I'm with Little Tebow on this one. Most definitely, the public schools in the U.S. are a waste. However, I also went to public school (a pretty shitty one) and I turned out pretty good... I mean well... weller? gooder?

There are a lot of other factors to consider with respect to education in the United States apart from public schools. The most important thing I can think of is parental guidance.

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:56 pm

Teachers unions.

Dun

Parents can spend more time preparing their children. However, many parents feel like they are paying so much for school that it will/should be taken care of.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:03 pm

Nobunaga wrote:.. The state of US public schools - a terrifying video for parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

... It's a long video (40 mins), but well worth watching if you've got kids.

... We spend more per public school kid than nearly any other nation, and yet we absolutely suck when compared to our peers overseas.

... Misuse of money, union monopolization, irrelevance of school performance and no competition among schools ... It's a complete mess and it's screwing our kids.

...

This has come up before.

The BIGGEST reason why the US seems to spend so much more on education per student is that we don't separate out special education students. Many countries put them into entirely different categories, part of their social service system. Other countries don't even try to educate many of the most highly disabled or developmentally delayed. Also, few have the high percentages of youth in jail that we do. When they do, they don't bother trying to educate them.

THEN... most of those countries are not tied up in court every year fighting young earth creationists, those wanting all sex education removed from schools an the myriad of other political battles our schools must face. Part of that is the result of our diversity, but part is just sheer stupidity and a mindset that began with the 80's conservatives that the "answer" to all the protests and whatnot was to simply not build up science education, in particular to avoid most natural science education.

Add in issues of race, religion, etc and you have one system that tries to do a bit of everything for all kids. The "no child left behind" was the conservative answer... very clearly designed to turn out robots, under the theory that only those at the top really need a good education,e veryone else just needs to be drilled in the basics.

notyou2 · Post by **notyou2** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:23 pm

We place our special children in the same classes as all the other kids in Canada.

When you have a school system that is constantly interfered with by the religious right, what do you expect?

Kids coming out that are told evolution is a hoax.

When science is placed in the back seat and religion is driving the bus, should you expect more from the students? Kids aren't stupid, they know when they are being mislead or outright lied to. They come to the conclusion that their education is a farce and they lose interest. At least I believe that is what is happening in some situations. Others go to school everyday hungry. Or in pain, and their parents can't afford to fix their ailments. This all adds up to a poorly performing system.

john9blue · Post by **john9blue** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:07 pm

yes, children dislike school because they feel that the knowledge being offered to the does not conform to the modern scientific consensus

you crack me up, NY2...

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:13 pm

john9blue wrote:yes, children dislike school because they feel that the knowledge being offered to the does not conform to the modern scientific consensus

you crack me up, NY2...

Yea, I don't even know what he's talking about. In some schools (pretty much ONLY in the south), they teach creationism, but I doubt they teach it in public schools in New York city. In my school, we didn't even come close to creationism.

Lootifer · Post by **Lootifer** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:15 pm

Not that I agree with what he's saying John, but you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'

john9blue · Post by **john9blue** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:15 pm

Lootifer wrote:Not that I agree with what he's saying John, you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'

i went to catholic high school and we learned about evolution. every student was fully aware that christianity and evolution were compatible. some of the things i read online about "the religious right hijacking education" just make me facepalm. if there's a problem, it has to do with public education itself, and not the religious right.

notyou2 · Post by **notyou2** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:23 pm

My point is interference by outside forces, in the case of my example, it is religious interference. I think this issue is further widespread than just the US south. Wasn't there a big debate on this very issue in California recently?

I realize the catholic church recognizes evolution, but I do not believe that is the case for many religious groups in the US.

I also believe the funds for schools in many areas in the US are not dispersed fairly and evenly and it is the poor and disadvantaged that suffer due to this practice.

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:24 pm

Lootifer wrote:Not that I agree with what he's saying John, but you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'

Whether it's a 'problem' or not is trivial (it'll exist no matter what), but I agree with this.

Wasn't there a point earlier in the US' history where we had the best education? I feel like it had to have been the 50s/60s, but religion was pretty damn prevalent then too.

Aradhus · Post by **Aradhus** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:29 pm

My high school had one of the worst records in the Uk. A majority of the kids came from two run-down impoverished areas. The libs in local government would always harp on about underprivileged kids not being given a fair shot. They would pump more and more money into the school. We had so much shit, kids from other schools would come to use it because their posh little schools didn't have the equipment we had.

All the money in the world didn't help a lick, the teachers were still terrible, they didn't care, and the kids couldn't a f*ck either, and even if they did, they were so fucking stupid it wouldn't matter.

Aradhus · Post by **Aradhus** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:49 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Not that I agree with what he's saying John, but you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'
Whether it's a 'problem' or not is trivial (it'll exist no matter what), but I agree with this.

Wasn't there a point earlier in the US' history where we had the best education? I feel like it had to have been the 50s/60s, but religion was pretty damn prevalent then too.

Might have been prevalent, but it didn't have a political agenda until the 80s.

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:56 pm

Aradhus wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Not that I agree with what he's saying John, but you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'
Whether it's a 'problem' or not is trivial (it'll exist no matter what), but I agree with this.

Wasn't there a point earlier in the US' history where we had the best education? I feel like it had to have been the 50s/60s, but religion was pretty damn prevalent then too.

Might have been prevalent, but it didn't have a political agenda until the 80s.

You remember Prohibition?

Aradhus · Post by **Aradhus** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:57 pm

No I was born in 1980.

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:58 pm

Aradhus wrote:No I was born in 1980.

EXACTLY

Metsfanmax · Post by **Metsfanmax** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:00 pm

Lootifer wrote:Not that I agree with what he's saying John, but you guys do spend a LOT of money on education and the MAIN difference between the US and the rest of the 1st world is it's view on religion... Does beg the question, just sayin'

http://begthequestion.info/

Aradhus · Post by **Aradhus** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Aradhus wrote:No I was born in 1980.
EXACTLY

GET OFF MY LAWN

Lootifer · Post by **Lootifer** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Does the US spend more than most on education though? I did some digging and here are the results:

source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE. ... /countries

Note that that is the average spend per student expressed as a percentage of gdp per capita...

Data has been averaged (where available) across 2007-2010 and across primary and secondary spend...

nietzsche · Post by **nietzsche** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:23 pm

That graph is helpful but deceiving.

If Cuba and the US percentage was 30% for both that would mean that the US spent say 2,000dls per student while Cuba spent 50dls.

Equipment is gonna cost the same if it comes from China. So the US stills spends a lot more than any other country in education per student.

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