Religion of peace wants death for French first lady

[tzor]

That's right! Death to Carla Bruni-Sarkozy! Iranian newspaper says French first lady deserves to die

Kayhan, a newspaper headed by a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, reiterated those statements Tuesday, writing that, "this woman with a bad history supports an Iranian woman who has committed adultery during marriage and is an accomplice to the murder of her husband who is sentenced to death, and in fact she [Bruni-Sarkozy] also deserves death."

If this isn't proof that Islam is a religion stuck in the stoning ages, I don't know what is!

[jimboston]

Yes. Proof.

When the leader of a formal religion or leader of a branch of that religion says such a thing it is proof for sure that at least his-branch... i.e. all those who fall under him and support him... are guilty of the same belief.

There may be some branchs of Islam that don't agree with this.

Those that support this should be bombed to the stone ages... since their belief system coincides with that time period it is onely appropriate.

[heavycola]

Those that support this should be bombed to the stone ages...

So... death to those who call for death to carla bruni?

[john9blue]

are you saying that all the inhabitants of a certain region support this idea? i mean what are you going to do about this anyway? you're going to start condemning people for their beliefs instead of their actions?

[john9blue]

Those that support this should be bombed to the stone ages...

So... death to those who call for death to carla bruni?

and death to those who call death to those who call death to carla bruni

etc.

[john9blue]

and i think to myself, what a wonderful world

[Army of GOD]

Wait. So you're taking Iran and saying they think so fucked up because of Islam?

C'mon tzor...you're smarter than this (I hope).

[natty dread]

[Army of GOD]

So you're taking Iran and saying they think so fucked up because of Islam?

Also, I realize this sentence is a grammatical nightmare, but I'm too tired to care.

[tzor]

So many people telling me what I said. Let's recap this, shall we?

Kayhan, a newspaper headed by a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

He is a reprentative of the Supreme Leader, a man who claims to be a "Grand Ayatollah." As such it is an offical as any pronoucement from any other official publication of a major religious leader, like the Pope, for example. It therefore reflects the core and findamental beliefs of the Islamic sect that is in Iran.

As "Vali faqih", or Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa ruling stating that the decisions of the Vali faqih "in all the matters that concerns Muslims and Islam," are "the will and decision of the whole nation."

What if this was a statement from a Vatican City newspaper concerning the American first lady. I would bet you all would be all over this like horse flies on a cow patty!

P.S. Technically speaking the age of stoning began in the bronze age. It can get confusing at times.

[Army of GOD]

Christianity/Catholicism had 700 years more than Islam to mature into a proper religion.

Imagine we were in the year 1300...you wouldn't be sucking the nuts of Christianity anymore.

[tzor]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

[2dimes]

Bummer. So did you have to get yours removed?

[tzor]

And before I forget ...

Birgitta Birgersdotter (1303 – 23 July 1373; also Birgitta of Vadstena, Saint Birgitta, Saint Bridget (or Brigid) of Sweden, or in Swedish den heliga Birgitta) was a mystic and saint, and founder of the Bridgettine Order after the death of her husband of twenty years. She was also the mother of a saint—Saint Catherine of Vadstena.

Those 1300's ... like any other times ... were times of great men and women.

So, where is the Islamic Brigitta? Oh yea, she is going to be burried alive and then stoned to death.

[tzor]

Bummer. So did you have to get yours removed?

Only dogs lick their own nuts ...


... because they can.

[heavycola]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

Catholics were torturing people, burning heretics and fucking over indigenous peoples what, 400 years ago? How long did catholicism take to grow up? I realise you will pretend you haven't read this, because you have me on "ignore".

[Phatscotty]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

Catholics were torturing people, burning heretics and fucking over indigenous peoples what, 400 years ago? How long did catholicism take to grow up? I realise you will pretend you haven't read this, because you have me on "ignore".

It's kind of hard to "wait around" when our civilians are the targets....

[Army of GOD]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

[Maugena]

I suggest you stop trying to point out reasons why Islam is horrible.
You need to look at your own religion in a non-biased way before you can even begin to criticize others.

You're just proving to me that you're failing at step 1.
Just do us all a favor and get over religion.
The world has enough lies as it is.

[Phatscotty]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

A serious post from AOG!?

it's not just a few. infidels are still beheaded in front of crowds. women are still stoned. hands are still cut off. Womens rights, just forget about it. Thats the way they want to live, that is their business. That is not the way we live.

Obviously, with 10,000+ mosques in our country, we are not the ones with the problem and there is no lack of tolerance in America and have many people trying to build more and more and more mosques and spread their faith everyday without fear. It's called freedom.

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

Everytime we get whacked, we are going to try to the best of our ability to hold those accountable who are responsible. Corruption, elitism, bankers, lobbyists, campaign donors are not going away any time soon. maybe we can try to cut that back, perhaps by electing HONEST people??? I know republicans and democrats do not have a clue as to how...

I also think we need major foreign policy change. We have failed and interefered too much in the middle east. We needto take responsibility, except my country keep electing EXPERT LIARS. I know the republicans didn't get it. It is painfully clear the Democrats do not get it. I am going to explore more how the Tea party feels about it.

Ultimately, the American people are at fault, in the end. We keep sending them back to congress, election after election....All it takes is some back bone and for people to get involved and support the kind of people who say they will put their life on the line to make these changes. someone who is not interested in money or power.

[Baron Von PWN]

So many people telling me what I said. Let's recap this, shall we?

Kayhan, a newspaper headed by a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

He is a reprentative of the Supreme Leader, a man who claims to be a "Grand Ayatollah." As such it is an offical as any pronoucement from any other official publication of a major religious leader, like the Pope, for example. It therefore reflects the core and findamental beliefs of the Islamic sect that is in Iran.

As "Vali faqih", or Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa ruling stating that the decisions of the Vali faqih "in all the matters that concerns Muslims and Islam," are "the will and decision of the whole nation."

What if this was a statement from a Vatican City newspaper concerning the American first lady. I would bet you all would be all over this like horse flies on a cow patty!

P.S. Technically speaking the age of stoning began in the bronze age. It can get confusing at times.

lol Tzor you are getting seriously pathetic. You are taking the extreme leaders of the more strict and fundamentalist sect of Islam (not even the largest one) and applying that view to the whole religion.

So this guy has pronounced that his opinions are the opinions of the whole country and you take him seriously?

Great analysis Tzor!

[heavycola]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

A serious post from AOG!?

it's not just a few. infidels are still beheaded in front of crowds. women are still stoned. hands are still cut off. Womens rights, just forget about it. Thats the way they want to live, that is their business. That is not the way we live.

Obviously, with 10,000+ mosques in our country, we are not the ones with the problem and there is no lack of tolerance in America and have many people trying to build more and more and more mosques and spread their faith everyday without fear. It's called freedom.

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

I kind of agree with you (gasp, shock, horror etc etc), but remember the election protests in Iran earlier this year? Ahmedinnerjacket is a lunatic, but he's sanctioned by Ayatollah Hameini. The election was rigged, and there were huge protests... although Hameini called the result 'divine judgement' or something. Protesting civilians were shot dead by government troops, there were allegations of torture, opposition politicians locked up... The point is that Iran is basically a theocratic dictatorship, not a democracy, and a lot of Iranians are fucked off about it. There appears to be real popular hunger for change and reform, and the Ayatollah's pronouncements and Iran's behaviour do not reflect on the country and its people as a whole. Moderate Islam exists there, and it is being repressed.

As for the Muslims building mosques in the US - presumably they are Americans too, right? Islam is a broad church, just like xianity. So when you talk about 'them' and 'us' do you mean 'Americans (including american muslims)' vs 'middle east muslims' or do you mean 'american non-muslims' vs 'american muslims''?

[Baron Von PWN]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

A serious post from AOG!?

it's not just a few. infidels are still beheaded in front of crowds. women are still stoned. hands are still cut off. Womens rights, just forget about it. Thats the way they want to live, that is their business. That is not the way we live.

Obviously, with 10,000+ mosques in our country, we are not the ones with the problem and there is no lack of tolerance in America and have many people trying to build more and more and more mosques and spread their faith everyday without fear. It's called freedom.

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

Which Muslims do people notice? The fucking crazy bat shit insane ones. How often do we hear about the Azerbijanis, Kahzaks, Turkmen, Indonesians, Turks, Morocans ect doing something nuts? What Tzor and others have shown on these fora is a pretty serious selection bias. They only pay attention to muslims who reinforce their view that muslims are dangerous murderers. Muslims who speak out against terrorist or wish to promote more moderate islam in say a community center are accused of secretly being extremists in favor of killing every single westerner.

[heavycola]

What Tzor and others have shown on these fora is a pretty serious selection bias. They only pay attention to muslims who reinforce their view that muslims are dangerous murderers. Muslims who speak out against terrorist or wish to promote more moderate islam in say a community center are accused of secretly being extremists in favor of killing every single westerner.

Amen. And isn't that itself an extremist point of view? ALL muslims are teh evill!!!

[tzor]

lol Tzor you are getting seriously pathetic. You are taking the extreme leaders of the more strict and fundamentalist sect of Islam (not even the largest one) and applying that view to the whole religion.

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎ Shī‘ah, sometimes Shi'a or Shi'ite), is the second-largest denomination of Islam, comprising anywhere between 10% or one-tenth to 13% of the total Muslim population in the world. Shia Muslims—though a minority in the Muslim world—constitute the majority of the populations in Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Iran, and Iraq, as well as a plurality in Lebanon and Yemen.

As stated above, an estimate of approximately 10–13% of the world's Muslims are Shi'a, which corresponds to about 130–190 million Shi'a Muslims worldwide. Shi'a Muslims also constitute over 30% of the population in Lebanon, over 45% of the population in Yemen, over 35% of the population in Kuwait, 20–25% of the population (primarily Alevi) in Turkey, 20% (primarily Bektashi) of the population in Albania, 20% of the population in Pakistan and 20% of population in Afghanistan. They also make up at least 25%-31% of the Muslim populations in India, 15-20% in the United Arab Emirates, Syria and Saudi Arabia, although the total number is difficult to estimate due to the intermingling between the two groups and practice of taqiyya by Shiites.

Shi'a Islam is divided into three branches. The largest and best known are the Twelver (اثنا عشرية iṯnāʿašariyya), named after their adherence to the Twelve Imams. They form a majority of the population in Iran, Azerbaijan, Bahrain and Iraq. Other smaller branches include the Ismaili and Zaidi, who dispute the Twelver lineage of Imams and beliefs.

The Twelver Shi'a faith is predominantly found in Iran (90%) , Azerbaijan (85%), Bahrain (75%), Iraq (65%), Lebanon (35%),[21] Kuwait (35%), Albania (20%), Pakistan (20%), Afghanistan (20%). and India (25%-31%) of its Muslim population.

So they are not the biggest. Doesn't mean they can be dismissed. Especially after Iran gets nukes.