Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

[cairnswk]

yes - i was hoping that if i ran out of time i would get to go straight after, and i would have forted kom wilhelm but it was chained forts
so now im stalking that game and hoping i can get in there!

EDIT:
pheeeewwwww that was a close one!
i was about 10seconds away form not winning, but i got it - paitence payed off. and that earned me 68points.

Mmmm. i only got about 38 from my mine.

[cairnswk]

Re-worked Version 27. I'm sure this will make for much more interesting gameplay.

Lots of changes:
Please note - bonuses have to be re-worked as well as starting neutral numbers.
1. Re-arranged airport - you can only leave the airport and go towards the town now.
2. re-arranged Das Dorf.
3. added a road (BurgerStrasse - Bs1-9) to the castle as another route up there, this road is in the book, but i did not use it before and it was not used in the movie
4. Checkpoints and Inn re-arranged - you can attack any one of the four Inn positions in the Inn box bordering four checkpoint.
5. Battery AA can only attack bordering positions i.e. Platz 1-4 positions and (Strasse) S6 & 7
6. Cable cars made easy to mount to the castle.
7. Helipad on works between Das Schloss (Helipad B) and Flughafen (Helipad A)
8. possible change to snow tracks - changing to feet prints in snow

[Herakilla]

the poll options are confusing to me. are you basically asking if we want to be able to or not be able to kill players? because i think this should remain an objective only map but im not sure which one to vote for lol

[cairnswk]

the poll options are confusing to me. are you basically asking if we want to be able to or not be able to kill players? because i think this should remain an objective only map but im not sure which one to vote for lol

read what the poll says herakilla and make your decision on that. its' quite simply really.
if you want to have termintor and assassin games on this map, then vote for the option that says to allow these game types.

[t-o-m]

kom wilhelm seems way too haard to get to - how many neutrals?
24+18
i also dont think that anyone will be using the helipads

[cairnswk]

kom wilhelm seems way too haard to get to - how many neutrals?
24+18

make a suggestion as to what you think would be more appropriate.

i also dont think that anyone will be using the helipads

maybe not, but they are there if you need a quick zip or down to oo from the castle.

[t-o-m]

kom wilhelm seems way too haard to get to - how many neutrals?
24+18

make a suggestion as to what you think would be more appropriate.

miligalaza could be 6 and kom could be 12.
then people from the Pvt's could squabble.
helipads maybe 15?
i also dont understand Inn, what attackes what?

[MOBAJOBG]

*jaw drops wide open* ...Das Schloß V27 is easily the most challenging of all CC's maps available.

[seamusk]

cool. you decided to give the tower a kind of all seeing power. But can it attack the chutes then?

kom wilhelm went from too easy to get to super hard. I think like t-o-m says, maybe a touch easier. Though I think it should be a lot.

I'm not sure if that Das SchloB bonus will come into play or not. But its certainly feasible now. Only gameplay will tell.

I really like the addition of the new path to the castle and the rework of the town. The town always seemed a bit too tight. I like how the road goes through town now instead of just to town.

If there is a way, I'm not sure I like that the new route to the castle goes through a deploy spot. I'd rather it meet up with neutrals. Kind of puts that player in an advantage or disadvantage depending on how you look at it.

The battery is almost too limited now. Though its ok. But it basically just functions as a territory and not so much as a battery.

You say you can only leave the airport and go towards town but can't you just jump on the helipad and go to the castle instead?

I think this looks a lot more balanced at first glance. As I've said before, this is a great map and I really like the objective oriented map. You've done a great job revamping this pretty quick!

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Cairnswk,

Very nice values for the neutrals; however, I might recommend switching the helipads to 13 each to make it more feasible to use them. At 18 each, to travel requires conquering 36 armies...no longer is it convenient...it is a burden. However, I do believe 13 each (26 total) would create enough army loss to satisfy the advantage of quickly moving across the map. Reasoning: Though you took out the bombardment on parachute trail, the bonuses are smaller but it is a guaranteed bonus once obtained (unless I missed something - If so...I apologize). I am also unclear on what it means to be a killer neutral on the helipads - please explain this when you get a chance. Other than that, I believe this map has defintely changed for the better. The road to the castle and the cable car set up will create nice alternatives. You also made movement around the airport and the R1-R8 more feasible...before I just ignored moving through all those neutral 2s. I like the 18 neutral bonus on the one object on the far right. It's an objective game - it should not be dominated within 4 rounds. The 18 neutrals will force a more strategic strategy (can't just move around with a giant load in spot or else opponent will take a previously obtained bonus while you depleted on the neutral 18).

Great job again.

[grunion]

I agree, vastly improved, especially w/r/t lower bonuses and more neutrals on the first objective. Do you really mean Kontrollurm can bombard _all_ positions or really all _airport_ positions? The second seems for better gameplay, but if that's your intent please reword the instructions. It's still hard for me to tell what borders what in the airport area. I vote objective only, I like the uniqueness of this map mainly for that reason.

[cairnswk]

kom wilhelm seems way too haard to get to - how many neutrals?
24+18

make a suggestion as to what you think would be more appropriate.

miligalaza could be 6 and kom could be 12.
then people from the Pvt's could squabble.

OK...taken in to consideration, but my idea was to make the militärlager very hard to get first up and that the privates would have to chip away at it.

helipads maybe 15?

OK.

i also dont understand Inn, what attackes what?

CP1 or CP2 can attack any and all of the four Inn1 Inn2 Inn3 Inn4

[cairnswk]

*jaw drops wide open* ...Das Schloß V27 is easily the most challenging of all CC's maps available.

So...good or bad???

[cairnswk]

cool. you decided to give the tower a kind of all seeing power. But can it attack the chutes then?

That is something that would be possible, if players vote to have terminator or assassin games.
Otherwise it will only be able to attack airport terts....sorry i have yet to fit that in....the part about the airport.

kom wilhelm went from too easy to get to super hard. I think like t-o-m says, maybe a touch easier. Though I think it should be a lot.

Kewl that is up for grabs, but your addition of comment leans me to lower to that neutral amount.

I'm not sure if that Das SchloB bonus will come into play or not. But its certainly feasible now. Only gameplay will tell.

Yes i have to look at that in more detail. Do you have any suggestions for those bonuses??

I really like the addition of the new path to the castle and the rework of the town. The town always seemed a bit too tight. I like how the road goes through town now instead of just to town.

Kewl

If there is a way, I'm not sure I like that the new route to the castle goes through a deploy spot. I'd rather it meet up with neutrals. Kind of puts that player in an advantage or disadvantage depending on how you look at it.

Yes that road will go to the neutrals. i simply haven't done that yet.

The battery is almost too limited now. Though its ok. But it basically just functions as a territory and not so much as a battery.

Well i didn't want to give it them/it too much power ealy in the game, thus the neutrals on CP and Inn are higher.

You say you can only leave the airport and go towards town but can't you just jump on the helipad and go to the castle instead?

no, that is one-way to the town, and you have to fight your way back to the airport from there.
I looked at all the games that had been started from the previous map, and one thing that concerned me was that people were conquering the airport too early to gain those bonuses. Thus this change.

I think this looks a lot more balanced at first glance. As I've said before, this is a great map and I really like the objective oriented map. You've done a great job revamping this pretty quick!

Thanks, but please give it some more consideration in future versions to help get this up again and a good balance this time.

[cairnswk]

Cairnswk,

Very nice values for the neutrals; however, I might recommend switching the helipads to 13 each to make it more feasible to use them. At 18 each, to travel requires conquering 36 armies...no longer is it convenient...it is a burden. However, I do believe 13 each (26 total) would create enough army loss to satisfy the advantage of quickly moving across the map. Reasoning: Though you took out the bombardment on parachute trail, the bonuses are smaller but it is a guaranteed bonus once obtained (unless I missed something - If so...I apologize). no, there is nothing missed...it is a guaranteed bonus for all players, provided some players remeber to use it. I did notice someone had not used the bonus in one game previously.

OK, t-o-m suggested 15 neutrals for the helipads, so i will meet you both at 14 - at this point in time.

I am also unclear on what it means to be a killer neutral on the helipads - please explain this when you get a chance.

killer neutrals terts - after you have conquered the territory and made your move, it reverts to however many neutral numbers it started with on the next player's turn. that way someone has to conquer this all over again, but also means that your chance to use this territory as troop movement fortification tert is gone.
A really hard challenge.
xml is written :
<neutral killer="yes">18</neutral> )at present that notation in the legend says they will be 18.
so, do debate the value of those helipads, as they will mean difficult times.

Other than that, I believe this map has defintely changed for the better. The road to the castle and the cable car set up will create nice alternatives. You also made movement around the airport and the R1-R8 more feasible...before I just ignored moving through all those neutral 2s. I like the 18 neutral bonus on the one object on the far right. It's an objective game - it should not be dominated within 4 rounds. The 18 neutrals will force a more strategic strategy (can't just move around with a giant load in spot or else opponent will take a previously obtained bonus while you depleted on the neutral 18).
Great job again.

[/quote]thanks.
I think Kom. Wilhelm needs at least 18 to be taken.

What would you give as neutral value for militärlager??

[cairnswk]

I agree, vastly improved, especially w/r/t lower bonuses and more neutrals on the first objective. Do you really mean Kontrollurm can bombard _all_ positions or really all _airport_ positions? The second seems for better gameplay, but if that's your intent please reword the instructions.

Yes i mean the airport only...so will reword.

It's still hard for me to tell what borders what in the airport area.

Which areas?

I vote objective only, I like the uniqueness of this map mainly for that reason.

Kewl. thanks.

[mwaser]

I'm enjoying the exotic map but could someone look at http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=2490464 and tell me why I haven't won? I have all four of the objectives . . . .

[cairnswk]

I'm enjoying the exotic map but could someone look at http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=2490464 and tell me why I haven't won? I have all four of the objectives . . . .

you have to hold all the territories for one turn, if you still have them on the start of your next turn, you'll win.

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Cairnswk,

I missed the 24 on militarlager and to be honest, without the ability to run BOB inspect on this makes it very hard for me to ascertain what snow terits can attack what. If one must attack militarlager prior to the 18 objective point right next to it...I still agree with 24; however, without playing it I dont know how it will pan out. Perhaps 24 will allow a player to come back if the dominant player screws up forts and deploys...OR perhaps it will just slow the game.

Idea for battery: Make it so you can bombard parachute trail, have 15 neutrals on it but have -10 army loss forcing the person to fort off if they cannot afford such loss. Just an idea

Regards

[seamusk]

That is something that would be possible, if players vote to have terminator or assassin games.
Otherwise it will only be able to attack airport terts....sorry i have yet to fit that in....the part about the airport.

excellent. I am one of the folks who likes the you cannot die idea. One idea along these lines, to sort of go back to one of the major issues that started the revamp. What about having TWO locations you cannot be killed in. Say the village homes and chutes. or something along those lines. One reason the artilleries were such a problem was that once you got beat up elsewhere there was only one place to recover. Just a thought. It may not be practical but since the town bonus isn't connected to the homes, feasible. Just another idea you can use if you feel you need to I guess.

Yes i have to look at that in more detail. Do you have any suggestions for those bonuses??

Well, the challenge I see is that folks are gonna just sit and build in their homes until they have enough to break it and then bum rush it anyhow. I think lowering the neutrals does encourage the fray to start earlier. I'd say 15 is a reasonable mark for the mil. area and maybe 12 for kom?

Yes that road will go to the neutrals. i simply haven't done that yet.

Excellent!

I looked at all the games that had been started from the previous map, and one thing that concerned me was that people were conquering the airport too early to gain those bonuses. Thus this change.

aye. i'd agree with this upon recollection of the games I played.

Keep it up. A map like this, as complex as this, and as original as this is tough to balance. I think you are doing a good job and I really respect how you are listening to folks and yet making the smart decisions that a map maker should make. good work.

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Good point with turtling and bum rushing the objective points seamusk. I join his opinion.

[bryguy]

1) I like the new ammount of neutrals at places. It makes it a little harder to get stuff.
2) Thanks so much for taking out all but 1 of the bombardments at the entrance area!! the path to the top is great to
3) The "Das Dorf" thing is confusing, could u either explain it better or just tell me what its for?
4) I like the idea of have another bombardment on the path to the airplane. It kinda (to me) can simulate your being under enemy fire (if your being attacked by it)



OVERALL

its MUCH better now!!!!

[mwaser]

Pardon another ignorant (but hopefully not stupid ) question . . . .

I couldn't start a Das Schlos game. Is that because I'm ignorant or because it's temporarily unavailable -- and if temporarily unavailable, will it be back soon (I hope! )

[AllReadyDead]

I posted before and said i loved the map. I've been going back joining all that i can because i can't start a new one (hope to see it back up). I just want to know if you're changing a lot about the maps play (bombard points and not being able to eliminate a player) because i'm already very upset that you'd change anything at all. Also, what bombards the starting positions now since AA and AB can't ? The Kontrolltrum ?

[cairnswk]

Pardon another ignorant (but hopefully not stupid ) question . . . .

I couldn't start a Das Schlos game. Is that because I'm ignorant or because it's temporarily unavailable -- and if temporarily unavailable, will it be back soon (I hope! )

only temp unavaialble for re-construction as you can see...it will be back