[Abandoned] - European Revolution

[max is gr8]

This is where I think a trigger would be useful, if you hold a whole country you can attack it on the mini-map

[yeti_c]

This is where I think a trigger would be useful, if you hold a whole country you can attack it on the mini-map

Yeah I agree.

C.

[cicero]

Thanks to yeti for the heads up on this one ... I like it already. (Thanks for the £10 to say that too yeti.)

• Way too dark! If it were released like this the only thing that would save it from being ignored (by me) would be BOB's map opacity feature.
• I agree with others that there should be more territories, but I can't justify that desire by saying anything other than I have a feeling that geographic maps with higher numbers of territories require the most skill ... But let's not get off topic on that.
• I think that, if it is decided to increase the territory count, this could be done nicely with sea territories ... If you wish you could extend the minimap to include sea territories too ... (Other posters with better geographic knowledge will be able to suggest sensible divisions of the sea.]
• Legend wording ...

Using North Africa as the canvas ...
"Regions within a country can attack bordering regions in the same country & the country on the minimap.
Countries on the minimap can attack bordering countries on the minimap & regions in the same country."

For once, given it's importance to the gameplay and the reference to it in the legend wording, I think the minimap should be labelled "minimap".

Cicero

[yeti_c]

OK Latest update...



Added

• Region names
• Legend
• Attack rules *3
• Normandy
• Title & Sigs

What do you reckon? Are all the names correct?

Region Names
I think we have a slight clash with "English names" and "local names" -> i.e. Holland, Belgium, Lux. & France are all "English"...
Whereas Portugal, Spain, Germany & Italy are all local (I think someone will correct me shortly!)
So better names for those please.

Bonuses
What do you think?
We decided that as the mini<->main maps create a bottleneck so each area has 1 border - so thus the bonuses must stay fairly low.

Number of territories
Now 42 - with the addition of Normandy - Thus firmly entrenching France as Asia.

C.

[ZeakCytho]

To confirm, all counties are divided up at the start like a normal game, right?

You say that "minimap countries can attack bordering minimap countries." I think you need attack lines on the minimap to connect Britain and Ireland to other countries. I think Eire should connect to Britain and Britain should connect to Eire, Holland, and France.

I agree that bonuses need to stay fairly low, since they'll all be held very easily eventually. Spain, Germany, Britain, and Italy are all +3 right now. They all have 6 territories except for Italy, which has 5. You don't have any +2s on the map right now, so perhaps make Italy a +2. France I could see as a +5, just because it is so massive and borders almost everywhere, but given that it's very easy to defend once it's held, I'm not sure about this.

Perhaps change the name of Holland (the county) to The Netherlands? Since, unless I'm mistaken, Holland is just a part of the Netherlands. And it doesn't quite make sense for Holland (the country) to be the name used for Holland (the county), Belgium, and Lux. I think one (or both) of the Hollands needs to change...though I'm not sure to what. Maybe someone from the region could better speak on this.

Graphically, I agree that the map should be lightened. Also, is there going to be room for army numbers in the tiny counties like Lux. or minimap Holland? If you end up needing army circles, these places could be problematic.

[yeti_c]

Yes - attack lines for the islands in the minimap is a good idea - I knew I'd forgotten something...

Also agree with Britain attacking Ireland/France & Holland...

I'm not 100% sure we need the wording in the minimap area though.

Holland = The Netherlands - it's the same place...

However - as our "country" contains Holland, Luxembourg & Belgium -> Perhaps we should call that county "Benelux"

C.

[ZeakCytho]

According to Wikipedia, "Holland is a region in the western part of the Netherlands." It's not the entire Netherlands. But someone from that area (Zimmah, I think?) is more equipped to discuss it than me.

I think the wording in the minimap is necessary, but it's fine as you have it. I just realized, though, that the minimap countries are not labeled. Most people know what countries are where, but it couldn't hurt to label them in case someone somehow doesn't.

[yeti_c]

According to Wikipedia, "Holland is a region in the western part of the Netherlands." It's not the entire Netherlands. But someone from that area (Zimmah, I think?) is more equipped to discuss it than me.

I think the wording in the minimap is necessary, but it's fine as you have it. I just realized, though, that the minimap countries are not labeled. Most people know what countries are where, but it couldn't hurt to label them in case someone somehow doesn't.

The legend is coloured to show which countries are which in both the minimap and the main map.

C.

[Qwert]

sicilia its to close to Italy.
Also i don't understand point of attack homeland on mini map?

[fireedud]

sicilia its to close to Italy.
Also i don't understand point of attack homeland on mini map?

That's the only way to break into other countries. For example, say you conquer Ireland, you can not attack Great Britain, until you attack both homelands on the Minimap.

[lt_oddball]

Concept idea is good. Early 1600 - 1680's there were a lot of crises in europe which could give this a basis.

But regarding borders/bonuszones I'd suggest you to do it somewhat different.

By experience you should know that whomever gets a small bonuszone first and holds it ..has a VERY big chance of winning ..more still, if that small bonuszone is in a mapcorner (back = covered), even more still if the NEXT bonuszone after the smallest is relatively small too so to easily chew it bit by bit. (Compare classic risk map South america is better than Australia...as it is closer to Africa ).

Thus with THIS map people with a slight majority in Portugal and Ireland have a much better chance of winning.
To improve on game starting balance you better carve up the map into smaller bonuszones which affiliates somewhat to the big regional powers of those times;
Instead of Spain: castilia, Aragon and Bask.
Instead of France : Bourgundy, Brittany, (and help me out Picardy?)
Instead of Germany : Bavaria, Hessen, Prussia
And what about Denmark and Sweden ?! Pretty big regional influence those days
Instead of Italy: Venezia, Milan, Tuscany(Rome), Napels
Instead of Britain: Scotland (north sector), England (south sector incl wales)
Being dutch I'd suggest Netherlands(!) to be split only in 2; Holland and Flanders (luxemburg was dutch for a long time)

Those bonuszones can or should be split in 2 or 3 areas..

It's only a bit of mapwork, but the gaming effect is noticable !
Please do so.

[yeti_c]

So are you saying have sub country bonus zones?

So for instance - france has 3 little continents in it (worth say 1 each)? (total = 4?)

C.

[ZeakCytho]

I don't like the concept of splitting continents, but I'm all for adding Denmark and Sweden. This map could use some more territories, IMO.

You could try doing a bonus structure similar to the New World, where you get some kind of bonus for the number of counties held within each country. This gives some more incentive for people to go after the larger continents, and gives them a chance against people who start in smaller areas. Someone starting in Ireland or Portugal will get the country bonus quickly, but will be matched soon by someone in France going just for county bonuses. That being said, I don't think +1 for 2 counties is quite right for this map...Maybe +2 for 4? This requires you to hold more to get each incremental increase. Or, if you do add Denmark and Sweden, and the map does become large, then +2 for 5 counties could work. Though, since you get +1 for every three territories anyway, perhaps this is useless.

[yeti_c]

I really don't think this map needs any more territories.

C.

[gimil]

It also doesnt need advance XML features jsut forthe hell of it. No one noticed that were keeping it simple and regular?

[yeti_c]

It also doesnt need advance XML features jsut forthe hell of it. No one noticed that were keeping it simple and regular?

Agreed - I don't think we need to add any more complexity to the map - we already have enough for the player to understand without adding extra bumpf.

C.

[ZeakCytho]

Yeah, it was just a thought to help balance the map. I'm all for simpler maps

However, there is definitely a distinct advantage to starting in Portugal, Ireland, or the Netherlands, and a disadvantage for starting anywhere else. Are 3 good starting points enough to make it balanced? It seems that, as it is now, the luck of the drop plays a very significant role in the course of the game. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

[yeti_c]

Yeah, it was just a thought to help balance the map. I'm all for simpler maps

However, there is definitely a distinct advantage to starting in Portugal, Ireland, or the Netherlands, and a disadvantage for starting anywhere else. Are 3 good starting points enough to make it balanced? It seems that, as it is now, the luck of the drop plays a very significant role in the course of the game. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

Hence why the bonus is low - it's a lot to fight through for a +1 -> you might be better off going for 12 territories more than an actual bonus.

C.

[ZeakCytho]

Yeah, it was just a thought to help balance the map. I'm all for simpler maps

However, there is definitely a distinct advantage to starting in Portugal, Ireland, or the Netherlands, and a disadvantage for starting anywhere else. Are 3 good starting points enough to make it balanced? It seems that, as it is now, the luck of the drop plays a very significant role in the course of the game. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

Hence why the bonus is low - it's a lot to fight through for a +1 -> you might be better off going for 12 territories more than an actual bonus.

C.

Mmm...true...God a playtesting area would be nice. When will we see an updated graphics version?

[yeti_c]

Yeah, it was just a thought to help balance the map. I'm all for simpler maps

However, there is definitely a distinct advantage to starting in Portugal, Ireland, or the Netherlands, and a disadvantage for starting anywhere else. Are 3 good starting points enough to make it balanced? It seems that, as it is now, the luck of the drop plays a very significant role in the course of the game. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

Hence why the bonus is low - it's a lot to fight through for a +1 -> you might be better off going for 12 territories more than an actual bonus.

C.

Mmm...true...God a playtesting area would be nice. When will we see an updated graphics version?

You just did - check page 4. (or page 1)

C.

[Ruben Cassar]

Guys the map is too dark. You need to make it lighter. Also I don't like seeing Italy's heel cut out of the map. It just doesn't look right since it's a playable country. Can this be added?

Just by looking at the instructions on the map and not reading all the posts in the thread I have not been able to understand the attack routes yet. Maybe these should be explained better. You must hold a whole country to attack another one or a territory can attack a country?

[gimil]

Guys the map is too dark. You need to make it lighter. Also I don't like seeing Italy's heel cut out of the map. It just doesn't look right since it's a playable country. Can this be added?

Just by looking at the instructions on the map and not reading all the posts in the thread I have not been able to understand the attack routes yet. Maybe these should be explained better. You must hold a whole country to attack another one or a territory can attack a country?

Im not extending a map jsut for the sake of adding italys boot. It'll just add alot of uneeded dead area.

Ill dont want to lighten the map again, Im trying not to have tbold colours, dark it part of the theme.

[Ruben Cassar]

Guys the map is too dark. You need to make it lighter. Also I don't like seeing Italy's heel cut out of the map. It just doesn't look right since it's a playable country. Can this be added?

Just by looking at the instructions on the map and not reading all the posts in the thread I have not been able to understand the attack routes yet. Maybe these should be explained better. You must hold a whole country to attack another one or a territory can attack a country?

Im not extending a map jsut for the sake of adding italys boot. It'll just add alot of uneeded dead area.

Ill dont want to lighten the map again, Im trying not to have tbold colours, dark it part of the theme.

Ok I can understand not adding Italy's heel, although I don't like it/ You have a point there. But seriously gimil the map is a bit too dark. It's as if my monitor was not working properly. In fact you gave me a shock the first time I saw it!

[gimil]

It must be your monitor! everything is clear and distint on my screen.

[Ruben Cassar]

It must be your monitor! everything is clear and distint on my screen.

Haha. Many people must be having problems with their monitors then Gimil! :p