Freedom Is Not Free [Winner: freyme]

by **Kinnison** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:21 am

Hmmm. See, I'd been assuming they didn't, and that they were just used to determine the 6 drops each round (lowest total points). But you're right, it doesn't specify. Heck, it doesn't even imply, one way or the other. Any inference drawn seems to be in the mindset of the reader.

I can see pros and cons to each method. But if it becomes a democracy (heh), I'd vote for not carrying them forward, so the final winner has earned ALL their points solely against their foes who have shown the ability to survive that far in.

There is something to be said for carrying points forward, but I'd have liked to see players sorted by site score, with shrinking divisions, rather than shuffled into chosen or random divisions in that case. *ding* Hmmm. New tournament idea... lemme play with it some more, I like it.

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:26 am

Yeah, I knew you'd been thinking that. It was your comment yesterday about having enough points to advance that made me think we were on different wavelengths there.

by **freyme** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:53 am

I think the points should start over each round as one group could have easier competition and 1 or 2 people get all the points. For instance on page 4 it looks like 1 person got kicked out and took last in all the games, therefore the other 5 have a higher statistical probability of getting more points.

Trying to use the big words since I am paying so much money to get my finance MBA that I have to make it worth the money. :lol:

by **jennifermarie** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:12 am

tentamu explained that the groups were to be shuffled each round, and the points would start over. the groups are to be shuffled to avoid "battle fatigue" from playing the same person for hundreds of games.

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:32 am

OK fair enough then
that means that barterer2002, freyme, kinneson, and Godd have all clinched advancement with the final two games just deciding if cazmat can catch scottie for the final advancement slot in the Orange Group

by **Kinnison** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:32 pm

barterer2002 wrote:OK fair enough then
that means that barterer2002, freyme, kinnison, and Godd have all clinched advancement with the final two games just deciding if cazmart can catch scottie for the final advancement slot in the Orange Group

Not quite. I agree with you in general, but the specifics, no. There's only 5 groups... with 4 in the next round, and so on... so the 6 drops will have to come from overall scores. scottie should be safe, especially with victory in the penultimate game... I'll root for cazmart to make the cut, because... well, I've just played 21 games with you guys, don't wanna lose any of you now.

by **BaldAdonis** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:37 pm

Kinnison wrote:Hmmm. See, I'd been assuming they didn't, and that they were just used to determine the 6 drops each round (lowest total points). But you're right, it doesn't specify. Heck, it doesn't even imply, one way or the other. Any inference drawn seems to be in the mindset of the reader.

You could say the same thing about deciding who gets dropped. Is it the lowest in each group, or the lowest six overall? All we know is that six get dropped each round. I suppose lowest six overall makes sense for future rounds, but in the first it could go either way.

by **jennifermarie** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:01 pm

for first round, it is the lowest of each group

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:24 pm

OK so Kinnison brings up a fair point here. Are we dropping 5 after the first round since there are only 5 groups or are we dropping the lowest six scores? Well I guess you said the lowest of each group but who's the 6th is it the 5th place team with the lowest score?

by **BaldAdonis** on Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:36 pm

barterer2002 wrote:OK so Kinnison brings up a fair point here. Are we dropping 5 after the first round since there are only 5 groups or are we dropping the lowest six scores? Well I guess you said the lowest of each group but who's the 6th is it the 5th place team with the lowest score?

We'll have to drop 6, so that we still have 6 player games, so in future rounds, it'll have to be by overall score. Unless one player is dropped from each group, and then the next lowest, but I think this is a bad idea, as it punishes the players in balanced groups, ie. a group where everyone gets 40-50 points would still lose a player, even though none of them were in the bottom six overall.

by **ogr8cdd** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:49 am

I joined this game from another Thread that JenniferMarie posted, and didn't see the original thread. May I say WOW. Thanks the JenniferMarie for taking on the big job. I was not even sure of the format.

I love the idea of 21 of the same games going, makes for a huge battle and a new look at strategy each time you get to your game. GREAT IDEA.

(Hate moans, and this isn't one)
I think it is just an oversite. As I joined from another thread, I don't think I have been added to a team on Page 1. I take it I am in the CYAN team.

Once again THANKS to JM for the great work.

p.s. I like the idea of bottom 6 overall being dropped.

by **GatorFan5963** on Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:33 pm

freyme wrote:I think the points should start over each round as one group could have easier competition and 1 or 2 people get all the points. For instance on page 4 it looks like 1 person got kicked out and took last in all the games, therefore the other 5 have a higher statistical probability of getting more points.

That's one reason I think the eliminations should be the lowest 6 scores. In the green group, we had one person who didn't play, and consequently got booted first in each game and scored 0 points overall. If there is going to be one elimination per group, everyone else in the group is safe automatically. I think it should be the lowest 6 scores overall, so points will still matter in all the groups. I just don't think anyone should get an automatic pass to the next round.

by **jennifermarie** on Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:27 pm

i'll take it to a poll

Option 1: lowest person in each group drop
Option 2: lowest 6 scores dropped, and scores are cumulative

by **freyme** on Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:37 pm

I say lowest 6 scores each round get eliminated and scores start over each round.

by **Kinnison** on Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:56 pm

*chuckle*

I hate to say it, but I agree with freyme. Cumulative scoring runs into problems when you have folks get an advantage from a deadbeat or the like.

If you insist on one of your two options, go for 6 lowest... I don't see it working any other way, with the irregular number of players in later rounds. But I would prefer resetting scores.

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:11 am

I think I would tend to agree with Kinnison and Freyme at this point. Whereby the lowest 6 scores are dropped each round but scores reset. However, given the choice of the two I'll vote for the second option.

by **jennifermarie** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:03 am

alright new poll, above 2 options plus lowest 6, but reset every round

by **freyme** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:22 am

It is okay to agree with me once in a while Kinnison. Just don't make it a habit.

by **Kinnison** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:14 pm

*snort* Okay, you got me, that was poorly stated. "I hate to disagree with the Tournament Moderator, but I must agree with freyme's opinion on this matter..."

How's that? :lol:

by **freyme** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:57 pm

That's much better Kinnison

by **biteme143** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:59 pm

Hey my group is done with there 21 games. I don't know if you want the scores or if you had it already?

by **GatorFan5963** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:59 pm

As Kinnison pointed out, there are only 5 groups to start with. We can't just drop the lowest score per group, because that would leave 25 players, and 25 doesn't divide evenly by 6. A lot of people have been discussing this as if there were 6 groups, but there aren't. I assumed there were, but then I tried to check the standings of all "6" groups to see approximately how many points it will take to stay in the tournament if the lowest 6 scores are dropped. I was surprised to find out there are only 5 groups.

With only 5 groups, it really doesn't seem possible to just drop the lowest score in each group. Maybe we could drop the lowest in each group and one more, but I think it should be the lowest 6 overall. In a competitive group, it could turn out that everyone gets about 40-50 points, where another group could have two or even three people with scores under 20. By dropping the lowest 6 scores overall, the players who are most capable of competing would be kept in the tournament.

BTW, I found out that if the lowest 6 scores are eliminated, then 28 points will be enough to make it to the next round. A player with a lower score than 28 may still have a chance, depending on how things go in the games that haven't been finished. There are a lot of unfinished games in the green group, and there are no standings yet in the cyan group. A lot could happen, but if the lowest 6 scores are dropped, then 28 points clinches a spot in the next round.

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:11 pm

Kinnison wrote:Not quite. I agree with you in general, but the specifics, no. There's only 5 groups... with 4 in the next round, and so on... so the 6 drops will have to come from overall scores. scottie should be safe, especially with victory in the penultimate game... I'll root for cazmart to make the cut, because... well, I've just played 21 games with you guys, don't wanna lose any of you now.

<edited to add emphasis to a fairly critical point, after the first response>

Kinnison commented on this already actually

by **Gilligan** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:00 pm

Gilligan wins 1354525

by **jennifermarie** on Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:29 am

seems like option #3 is the most popular...of course, there are only 14 posts, and many more people are in this tourney, so get the people that are in your tourney games to vote!