+2500 Games (Colonels and above)

[rabbiton]

i want this because it makes people more agressive and more willing to make a daring move for a quick kill.

individual kills are relatively easy to envision and execute. for me the biggest challenge is in managing the forces of all players simultaneously so that i end up on top. this is what it's all about for me. sometimes to kill is daring, sometimes to not kill is more daring. some of the best moves are non-aggressive. scoring by kills will result in too many 'unnatural' moves that aren't so much daring as induced by the scoring mechanism.

so... just my opinion, but i wouldn't sign up for the tournament as specified.

[DiM]

i want this because it makes people more agressive and more willing to make a daring move for a quick kill.

individual kills are relatively easy to envision and execute. for me the biggest challenge is in managing the forces of all players simultaneously so that i end up on top. this is what it's all about for me. sometimes to kill is daring, sometimes to not kill is more daring. some of the best moves are non-aggressive. scoring by kills will result in too many 'unnatural' moves that aren't so much daring as induced by the scoring mechanism.

so... just my opinion, but i wouldn't sign up for the tournament as specified.

so you're saying you'd only sign up if it is standard instead of terminator?

remember we're talking about escalating games so even if they are terminator they'll probably finish like a standard game with the cash kill cash kill combo.


also i doubt people will make unatural moves that spoil the game just to get ahead in the league. remember we're talking about players with high ranks here. we're not talking about some noob that goes all suicidal just to kill somebody and ruin the whole game.

[Uberwald]

I would agrea although it does enhance the terminator effect where some points are better than none

[AAFitz]

its not a matter of being bitchy.... its just a matter of ease... the line has to be drawn somewhere, and 2500 is the place as 2000 is in the 2000 games

it eliminates the need for discusion... only way to do it.

I do hope i get back to this level soon, but its so much easier to play the games I play at 2300 or so...

the post above was directed at roadwarrior who (excuse me if i'm wrong) seemed very outraged by the fact that masli dared to drop bellow 2500 and thus he made the game unfair for roadwarrior who will potentially lose 2 more points. that's why i said he was bitchy.

the main reason i participate in the cc2000 and cc2500 games is to get some tough competition.
the fact that a guy reached 2500 then dropped bellow doesn't mean he's a poor player. i'd be very happy to play a game with you fitz because i know you're a good player and i have a lot to learn, should i perhaps put you on ignore cause you're bellow 2500 now? this is silly.

aside from the tough competition cc2500 provides it also provides the safety of score. it guarantees that you don't lose 50 points but rather something like 22-24 in the worst case. masli's drop means if i play a 1v1 now i will lose 22 points instead of 20 do those 2 extra points matter so much? of course not. what's he supposed to do, deadbeat the games to not upset the majors?

yes he won't join any more games until he has 2500 but that's all.


btw i have an ongoing cc2000 game that started 2 months ago. back then all 5 people were captains, 2 remained captains i jumped to major and the other 2 dropped to 1253 and 1479. what am i supposed to do? tell them to give up to protect my score?
btw fitz, you're eliminated in that game so pray that i win otherwise you'll drop 40 points.

I do apologize, my point was... that the cc 2000 games are for people with 2000 points, and these are for 2500 points.... it just makes it easier, because the line makes the decision... and I did think you were refering to khaz's suggestion.

Im only posting because the same discussion was had at the inception of cc2000 games... 2000 was the bench mark, and noone's complained since... some have dropped below 2000 in games, and its to be somewhat expected... in these, probably more so, If i thought i was going to drop huge points, I wouldnt make a ton of them, and Id also expect to be watched more carefully to make sure I wasnt going to win.

Anyways, im grabbing that pw either way in a week or so. And im starting a few games

[DiM]

I would agrea although it does enhance the terminator effect where some points are better than none

i like terminator games because as you said some points are better than none and because in my opinion further reduces the luck factor in a game.
it happened so many times in escalating games to come 1 army short of killing somebody and thus i lost the game despite eliminating 2,3,4 other people. with this setting even if i come up 1 army short i can still say i won a few points or at least limited my loss.

[DiM]

Anyways, im grabbing that pw either way in a week or so. And im starting a few games

if you do perhaps you'll join the tourney

[rabbiton]

also i doubt people will make unatural moves that spoil the game just to get ahead in the league.

why not? if i'm playing a tournament, i'm playing a tournament not a game. and i play to win.

i recently got to the finals of a long tournament barely winning a game, because the scoring system rewarded 2nd, 3rd, etc. i lost a lot of cc points in that tournament and there were a lot of wacked games. interesting, but not my cup of tea really.

if you say that people won't make that much use of it, why not avoid the issue altogether?

if you come up 1 army short you lose. makes going for the kill all the more daring, eh? also, makes you consider that kill a lot more deeply - and that's more aligned with my notion of a high quality game.

[DiM]

also i doubt people will make unatural moves that spoil the game just to get ahead in the league.

why not? if i'm playing a tournament, i'm playing a tournament not a game. and i play to win.

i recently got to the finals of a long tournament barely winning a game, because the scoring system rewarded 2nd, 3rd, etc. i lost a lot of cc points in that tournament and there were a lot of wacked games. interesting, but not my cup of tea really.

if you say that people won't make that much use of it, why not avoid the issue altogether?

if you come up 1 army short you lose. makes going for the kill all the more daring, eh? also, makes you consider that kill a lot more deeply - and that's more aligned with my notion of a high quality game.

as i said the tourney will not be for bragging rights or stuff like that. the main reason i'm doing it is that it will provide a constant flow of high quality games without the need of posting in the forum, waiting to fill up and so on. you'll be guaranteed 8p major games.

as for coming 1 army short, hmm it doesn't make me rethink my strategy or anything. it simply makes me hate the dice. i know when to attack and time my moves carefully but i gues i've been on th wrong side too many times. even after i wrote here a few hours ago i took a turn where i wanted to eliminate somebody in the other team. it would have meant victory. i had to kill 48 with 70. those 48 were positioned 46,1,1. after the first attack i was down to 6v1v1 so i was already at a huge loss. then i lost that 6v1. now i'm gonna lose that game. dice screwed me again. instead of gaining 20 points i'll now lose 20. and it really sucks because i had the better strategy, the better timing but unfortunately i got the worse dice

[rabbiton]

as for coming 1 army short, hmm it doesn't make me rethink my strategy or anything. (

perhaps it should. for example, in your example, did you use auto-attack?

[DiM]

as for coming 1 army short, hmm it doesn't make me rethink my strategy or anything. (

perhaps it should. for example, in your example, did you use auto-attack?

nope i didn't. i attacked normally. i managed at some point to get to +4 then started dropping. i had a series of 18 straight losses then a few more wins then more losses. i got to 12v2,1,1. very high chance of success. at that moment i was really pissed and started thinking weather i must continue or not. after doing the math i realised i had those 12 troops plus 3 others. so 15 troops. by my next turn he was bound to get his bonus troops plus the troops from his team mate thus he could have taken me out. so i attacked and lost attached and lost again. it was 8v2,1,1 still good chances. that's when i really wanted to stop. i took a break waited for a few seconds and did the math to see his chances of taking me out when his turn would have come. he had more than 70% so i took the chance and attacked again. killed 1 lost 1. then attacked again and won. i moved 6. i had 6v1,1 i attacked again and again until i lost 5 in a row. simply rotten dice.

and if i were to do it again i'd do it without a second thought. with 20 more armies plus the advantage of 3 dice vs 2 i should win most battles and yet sometimes shit happens. should my strategy change? no.

also in my example had i not attacked i would have been surely attacked next turn.

[roadwarrior]

its not a matter of being bitchy.... its just a matter of ease... the line has to be drawn somewhere, and 2500 is the place as 2000 is in the 2000 games

it eliminates the need for discusion... only way to do it.

I do hope i get back to this level soon, but its so much easier to play the games I play at 2300 or so...

the post above was directed at roadwarrior who (excuse me if i'm wrong) seemed very outraged by the fact that masli dared to drop bellow 2500 and thus he made the game unfair for roadwarrior who will potentially lose 2 more points. that's why i said he was bitchy.

the main reason i participate in the cc2000 and cc2500 games is to get some tough competition.
the fact that a guy reached 2500 then dropped bellow doesn't mean he's a poor player. i'd be very happy to play a game with you fitz because i know you're a good player and i have a lot to learn, should i perhaps put you on ignore cause you're bellow 2500 now? this is silly.

aside from the tough competition cc2500 provides it also provides the safety of score. it guarantees that you don't lose 50 points but rather something like 22-24 in the worst case. masli's drop means if i play a 1v1 now i will lose 22 points instead of 20 do those 2 extra points matter so much? of course not. what's he supposed to do, deadbeat the games to not upset the majors?

yes he won't join any more games until he has 2500 but that's all.


btw i have an ongoing cc2000 game that started 2 months ago. back then all 5 people were captains, 2 remained captains i jumped to major and the other 2 dropped to 1253 and 1479. what am i supposed to do? tell them to give up to protect my score?
btw fitz, you're eliminated in that game so pray that i win otherwise you'll drop 40 points.

DiM: So DiM called me bitchy and silly. What did I do except to agree with Khaz's reasoning for the major games? Is Khaz silly and bitchy too?

Rather than think only of the interest of the player who fell rank and to attribute it all to uncontrollable factors such as dice seems to me just too simplistic. What about those of us who keep our ranks and take pains to do so? What about our interests? Aren't we subjected to the same dice like Masli and you too?

Seems to me there is a trade off to participate at major games. If you want to have a chance to participate in high quality games, then ensure that the same experience is enjoyed by your fellow gamers, not just for yourself. So each one should pay closer attention, e.g. the number of games he participate in in order to keep things under control like khaz suggested.

[khazalid]

that about summarises it. back on topic please guys, if you want to talk about tournaments you know where to go, likewise if you want to discuss falling rank.

[Selin]

Hey guys,

This is not a tournament forum. Why don't you open a new thread in tournaments section and discuss there?

.

[Selin]

updated

[DiM]

its not a matter of being bitchy.... its just a matter of ease... the line has to be drawn somewhere, and 2500 is the place as 2000 is in the 2000 games

it eliminates the need for discusion... only way to do it.

I do hope i get back to this level soon, but its so much easier to play the games I play at 2300 or so...

the post above was directed at roadwarrior who (excuse me if i'm wrong) seemed very outraged by the fact that masli dared to drop bellow 2500 and thus he made the game unfair for roadwarrior who will potentially lose 2 more points. that's why i said he was bitchy.

the main reason i participate in the cc2000 and cc2500 games is to get some tough competition.
the fact that a guy reached 2500 then dropped bellow doesn't mean he's a poor player. i'd be very happy to play a game with you fitz because i know you're a good player and i have a lot to learn, should i perhaps put you on ignore cause you're bellow 2500 now? this is silly.

aside from the tough competition cc2500 provides it also provides the safety of score. it guarantees that you don't lose 50 points but rather something like 22-24 in the worst case. masli's drop means if i play a 1v1 now i will lose 22 points instead of 20 do those 2 extra points matter so much? of course not. what's he supposed to do, deadbeat the games to not upset the majors?

yes he won't join any more games until he has 2500 but that's all.


btw i have an ongoing cc2000 game that started 2 months ago. back then all 5 people were captains, 2 remained captains i jumped to major and the other 2 dropped to 1253 and 1479. what am i supposed to do? tell them to give up to protect my score?
btw fitz, you're eliminated in that game so pray that i win otherwise you'll drop 40 points.

DiM: So DiM called me bitchy and silly. What did I do except to agree with Khaz's reasoning for the major games? Is Khaz silly and bitchy too?

Rather than think only of the interest of the player who fell rank and to attribute it all to uncontrollable factors such as dice seems to me just too simplistic. What about those of us who keep our ranks and take pains to do so? What about our interests? Aren't we subjected to the same dice like Masli and you too?

Seems to me there is a trade off to participate at major games. If you want to have a chance to participate in high quality games, then ensure that the same experience is enjoyed by your fellow gamers, not just for yourself. So each one should pay closer attention, e.g. the number of games he participate in in order to keep things under control like khaz suggested.

i didn't call you bitchy or silly. i just said you were bitching in that post that masli dropped bellow 2500 and now you have the risk of losing 2 extra points or winning 2 less points. and i also said it is silly because the reason we join these games is to get tough competition. since masli was a major when he joined it means he's good. the fact that he dropped a few points doesn't make him all of a sudden a crappy player and the fact that he now put the others in a position where they could lose 2 extra points doesn't seem unfair at all. it's not like he did it on purpose.

read this part again:

the post above was directed at roadwarrior who (excuse me if i'm wrong) seemed very outraged by the fact that masli dared to drop bellow 2500 and thus he made the game unfair for roadwarrior who will potentially lose 2 more points. that's why i said he was bitchy.

so you see why i called you bithcy? simply because of the fact you seemed very outraged. as if masli has done something wrong to you with the most evil of intentions.

as you can see masli dropped the waiting games he had and he didn't join anything else. yes he is currently in some active ones but that shouldn't bother anybody at all.

rabbition we haven't played many games but from what i've see you're a solid player. if by any chance you fall under 2500 do you think i'll come to the forums and complain you might cost me 2 precious points? clearly no. because i know whatever the score you're still a solid player.

look at wacicha he switches ranks like crazy. i've played him when he was a major a captain a lieutenant and even a sargeant. i've had games with him where he went from 2300 points to 1500 and back during the same game. did i even once tell him he's being unfair towards my points? did i ever think for a second to stop joining his games since he was just a sargeant? again a big fat no. because no matter what his score is he's still a great player.

i don't know perhaps i'm wrong and you're right perhaps we're both right. i value the quality of the opponents more than i value the points they have. if all of you here suddenly fell to cooks i'd still play you guys because you're the kind of opponents that make me sweat for every win.
but perhaps you're right playing with lower ranks makes you lose points perhaps that's why i won't make it to brigadier ever, or maybe not even colonel. so what? as long as i have fun who cares if i'm not #1.

anyway. it is not the best place to talk about this. so if you want to continue the debate i'd be more than willing to do it via pm.
cheers.

[DiM]

Hey guys,

This is not a tournament forum. Why don't you open a new thread in tournaments section and discuss there?

.

i know i know. but i just wanted to see if there's interest among the people here before i put the thread in the tourny section.

[khazalid]

DiM:

i didn't call you bitchy or silly. i just said you were bitching in that post that masli dropped bellow 2500 and now you have the risk of losing 2 extra points or winning 2 less points. and i also said it is silly because the reason we join these games is to get tough competition. since masli was a major when he joined it means he's good. the fact that he dropped a few points doesn't make him all of a sudden a crappy player and the fact that he now put the others in a position where they could lose 2 extra points doesn't seem unfair at all. it's not like he did it on purpose.



so we should let everyone who has ever hit 2500 play?

no more discussion on it.

[the liquidator]

password please?

[khazalid]

sent

[DiM]

DiM:

i didn't call you bitchy or silly. i just said you were bitching in that post that masli dropped bellow 2500 and now you have the risk of losing 2 extra points or winning 2 less points. and i also said it is silly because the reason we join these games is to get tough competition. since masli was a major when he joined it means he's good. the fact that he dropped a few points doesn't make him all of a sudden a crappy player and the fact that he now put the others in a position where they could lose 2 extra points doesn't seem unfair at all. it's not like he did it on purpose.



so we should let everyone who has ever hit 2500 play?

no more discussion on it.

gah. it seems i'm not making myself clear enough despite making big posts. let's try a simple short explanation.

player over 2500 = can join anything
player bellow 2500 = can't join anything
player that joined games when he was 2500 or more but dropped bellow can't join any new games but can play normally in those he has without getting flamed for being unfair towards others.

[Uberwald]

Sounds good!


How about another game?

1483865

Apocalypse escalating terminator

[roadwarrior]

1) player over 2500 = can join anything provided he is reasonable to take steps to ensure his major rank (each one can decide for himself how to do this)
2) player below 2500 = can't join anything
3) player that joined games when he was 2500 or more but dropped bellow can't join any new games but can play in those he has BUT he has to be prepared to get flamed for being unfair towards others.

The first guideline is not complete and I cannot agree with your third suggestion because it is based on an incomplete guideline#1.

I suggest the above 3 guidelines.

Consider the case when a person just reached 2500 or barely at that level but realistically cannot maintain that rank (for example, by reason he has got too many open games and can reasonably expect to lose a number of them such that he will fall in rank) , should not join. The 2000 games would be more suitable for such a person. This person would know best for himself if he is in this category or not, but if he joins knowing he cannot maintain his rank, then I for one will not be pleased with this.

Regards feedback, of course like everyone else, I do not leave feedback for players whose ranks fall during public games. However in ranked games like these, I may note it (but may very well not bothered) as a neutral feedback and or even as a negative for example, if the guy is a habitual.

[DiM]

1) player over 2500 = can join anything provided he is reasonable to take steps to ensure his major rank (each one can decide for himself how to do this)
2) player below 2500 = can't join anything
3) player that joined games when he was 2500 or more but dropped bellow can't join any new games but can play in those he has BUT he has to be prepared to get flamed for being unfair towards others.

The first guideline is not complete and I cannot agree with your third suggestion because it is based on an incomplete guideline#1.

I suggest the above 3 guidelines.

Consider the case when a person just reached 2500 or barely at that level but realistically cannot maintain that rank (for example, by reason he has got too many open games and can reasonably expect to lose a number of them such that he will fall in rank) , should not join. The 2000 games would be more suitable for such a person. This person would know best for himself if he is in this category or not, but if he joins knowing he cannot maintain his rank, then I for one will not be pleased with this.

Regards feedback, of course like everyone else, I do not leave feedback for players whose ranks fall during public games. However in ranked games like these, I will note it as a neutral feedback and or even as a negative for example, if the guy is a habitual.

mate i think you're a bit too drastic with these guidelines. look in the past 3 days i've come 1 army short of a win on 6 different occassions. so from a win i go to a loss. considering the ranks of my opponents i will probably lose 25 points for each game. that's 150 points loss instead of ~80 points gain.
so basically the dice screwed me for 230 points. it was simply a shitty period for me regarding the dice. this doesn't happen constantly and i have no controll over it. it's simply bad luck. am i to blame? should i be flamed in case those 230 points make me fall bellow 2500? should i start defending my case by presenting evidence of the 6 games where the dice screwed me? i think not. we're all reasonable people and hopefully we can all understand when somebody has bad luck.
should i fear neutral feedbacks or even bad feedbacks from those in my active major games in case i drop bellow 2500? again i hope not as it wasn't my intention to get raped by the dice.

also i don't understand how you can say a person is unfair to the others because he drops some points. is it really necessary to flame somebody for this?

yes i agree it's my responsibility to hold on to my rank if i make a commitment to play in CC2500 games. but to go all the way to flaming and giving negative feedback seems really harsh. and for what? 2 points? come on mate. are 2 points really that important to you?

i gave you an example a few pages back about a cc2000 game. it has started a long time ago and 2 players have fallen to 1200 and 1400 points. should i give them negative feedback for this? should i go flame them? or perhaps i should even put them on ignore?
i would never do that. in fact i wouldn't even tell them a single word about this. so what if i lose 40+ points? they won those points fair.

[Selin]

I play a lot of no card games that last months usually. It would be unfair to blame someone for dropping below 2500 during that period.

.

[Selin]

updated