Map Organization Project [Ver 3 - Pg 13]

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:27 pm

Well I find this poll useful in the sense that people who think categories are shite are going to vote the last option and people who don't will vote something else, devaluing the impact of your disagreement with the idea so I can move on.

Had the findings been more in your favor I'd have completely dropped the notion and moved forward that way.

wcaclimbing · Post by **wcaclimbing** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:22 pm

maybe move this thread into a sticky in the main foundry section to get it more views, giving more votes?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:44 pm

i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:54 pm

rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.

Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:04 pm

fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps

and how do you decide the complexity?

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:32 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:maybe move this thread into a sticky in the main foundry section to get it more views, giving more votes?

I'd rather have 15 to 20 good votes than 100 mediocre votes. Although more people might agree with only the 2 categories if I made a more public poll...

I'll think of something, I could draft something for General. If the game finder layout was changed to allow categories which would you want more?

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:57 pm

That way the Geography types don't have to worry about all these weird fictional and abstract maps 'corrupting' their list.

You give me idea

What you think of these:

Map Categories:
-Continents Maps(Classic,World 2,1,Africa,N.America,S.America......)
-Country Maps(Germany,Italy,USA,Britain,Philipines,............)
-History Maps(Ancient Greece,Alehander Empire,Battle for Actium,Circus Mahimus...............)
-World War II Maps(Pearl Harbour,Battle for Australia,Iwo Jima,Eastern Front..................)
-Fantasy World Maps(Midle Earth,Tamriel,Midkemia,8 Thought.................)

-and last category map like Crossword,Conquer Man,and other who not go to these 4 category(i dont know how to give name for these category,maybe Abstract Maps or some other name?)

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:05 pm

DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps

and how do you decide the complexity?

common sense.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:05 pm

Abstract would work.

benjikat · Post by **benjikat** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:18 pm

DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps
and how do you decide the complexity?

As I suggested a couple of pages back - a compromise would be to badge the "classic" maps - i.e. those without features not found on the Classic map - with a strong push for newcomers to only play "classic" maps at first (or even block them from playing any others at the start - as with team games). This is then a completely objective categorisation - as I can see some HUGE arguments ensuing over the subjective notion of "complexity".

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:22 pm

benjikat wrote:
DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps
and how do you decide the complexity?

As I suggested a couple of pages back - a compromise would be to badge the "classic" maps - i.e. those without features not found on the Classic map - with a strong push for newcomers to only play "classic" maps at first (or even block them from playing any others at the start - as with team games). This is then a completely objective categorisation - as I can see some HUGE arguments ensuing over the subjective notion of "complexity".

there doesn't need to be a formula. All we need to do is to say how hard it is to grasp.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:45 pm

fireedud wrote:
benjikat wrote:
DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps
and how do you decide the complexity?

As I suggested a couple of pages back - a compromise would be to badge the "classic" maps - i.e. those without features not found on the Classic map - with a strong push for newcomers to only play "classic" maps at first (or even block them from playing any others at the start - as with team games). This is then a completely objective categorisation - as I can see some HUGE arguments ensuing over the subjective notion of "complexity".
there doesn't need to be a formula. All we need to do is to say how hard it is to grasp.

i say pearl harbor is very easy. do you agree? probably not. so what do we do? we argue endlessly

there is no way to objectively decide he complexity of a map

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:46 pm

It may be an idea to get some outside of the Foundry people in here. Perhaps some of the backers of each of the various methods/ideas should look into writing a post for the General Discussion? Perhaps even drop by chat? The more people you can get giving feedback, surely the better.

--Andy

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:49 pm

DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
benjikat wrote:
DiM wrote:
fireedud wrote:
rebelman wrote:i voted but that poll doesn't really help the cause

complexity got my vote as I still believe this is essential especially for new inexperienced players if we want to get them to stay onthis site and sample more maps after wetting their toes.
Yea complexity is good for newcomers if it goes something like this:

easy-advised for newcomers
mildy complex- advised for players who are familiar with risk
complex-advised for players who understand the game very well
Extremely complex- suicidal for anyone who hasn't played on a few maps
and how do you decide the complexity?

As I suggested a couple of pages back - a compromise would be to badge the "classic" maps - i.e. those without features not found on the Classic map - with a strong push for newcomers to only play "classic" maps at first (or even block them from playing any others at the start - as with team games). This is then a completely objective categorisation - as I can see some HUGE arguments ensuing over the subjective notion of "complexity".
there doesn't need to be a formula. All we need to do is to say how hard it is to grasp.
i say pearl harbor is very easy. do you agree? probably not. so what do we do? we argue endlessly

there is no way to objectively decide he complexity of a map

I find it easy too, but remember this is for new members, who haven't played these maps yet.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:57 pm

fireedud wrote:
DiM wrote:
i say pearl harbor is very easy. do you agree? probably not. so what do we do? we argue endlessly

there is no way to objectively decide he complexity of a map

I find it easy too, but remember this is for new members, who haven't played these maps yet.

even as a new member i would still say that pearl harbor is easy. even if i had never played risk in my life i'd still find all the maps easy.
why? because i always read the instructions carefully when i play something for the first time.

yeah i'm the type that reads the manual plays the tutorial and then jumps in the action. and believe it or not sometimes before i play a game i even look up various info on the net to better understand it. strategies and hints and stuff like that.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:23 pm

Map Categories:
-Continents Maps(Classic,World 2,1,Africa,N.America,S.America......)
-Country Maps(Germany,Italy,USA,Britain,Philipines,............)
-History Maps(Ancient Greece,Alehander Empire,Battle for Actium,Circus Mahimus...............)
-World War II Maps(Pearl Harbour,Battle for Australia,Iwo Jima,Eastern Front..................)
-Fantasy World Maps(Midle Earth,Tamriel,Midkemia,8 Thought.................)
-City maps(montreal,San Francisco........................)
-Abstract maps(all others who not go in up category)

I think that these is best solution,and you can not find better,except to put map like now A_B_C_D_E...................
I will try to put maps in these category how i see and show you.(these only mine opinion)

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:54 pm

Continent maps
-Classic
-Africa
-Arctic
-Asia
-Australia
-Europe
-North America
-South America
-World 2.1

Country Maps
-Benelux
-Brazil
-British Isles
-Canada
-France
-Germany
-Indochina
-Ireland
-Italy
-Philipines
-Portugal
-Usa

City maps
-Hong Kong
-Montreal
-San Francisco

History Maps
-Alexander Empire
-Ancient Greece
-Battle of Actium
-Berlin 1961
-Circus Maximus
-Mongol Empire
-valey of the Kings

WWII maps
-Bamboo Jack
-Battle for Australia
-D-Day
-Pearl Harbour
-Eastern Front
-Iwo Jima
-Western Front

Fantasy World Maps
-Age of merchant
-Age of realms
-Middle Earth
-Midkemia
-Tamriel
-8 thoughts

Abstract Maps
-CCU
-Chinese Checkers
-Conquer Man
-Crosswords
-Discworld
-Doodle Earth
-King of The Mountain
-usa Apocalipse
-US SENATE

These map what left is stay to decide where to put
-Rail Usa
-Solar system
-Space
-Siege
-Puget Sound
-Midle East
-Madness
-Great Lakes
-Extreme Global Warming
-Duck and Cover
-Cairn Coral Coast
-Caribean Islands

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:00 pm

since when is 8 thoughts a fantasy world map? and why isn't doodle in continent maps?

and how would this sorting help?

yes circus maximus is historic but to be honest i'd put it in abstract because of the gamestyle. same with votk

and what do you do with maps in several categs? do you put them in both?

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:02 pm

-Continents Maps (Classic,World 2,1,Africa,N.America,S.America......)
-Country/State/Province Maps (Germany,Italy,USA,Britain,Great Lakes,............)
-City maps (Montreal,San Francisco........................)
-Historical Maps (Ancient Greece,Alexander Empire,Battle for Actium,Circus Maximus, Pearl Harbour,Battle for Australia,Iwo Jima,Eastern Front..................)
-Fantasy World/Theme Maps (Midle Earth,Tamriel,Midkemia,AOM, AOR, Dungeon of Draknor.................)
-Abstract maps(8 Thought, Conquer Man, Crossword, Chinese Checker )

I don't think that WWII should have its own category. It is historical and that is where it should go.

=====================================

How would you rate this map in terms of play ( how much mental power do you need to use to play this map)?
Basic (an illiterate baby could play)

Easy (I can look at the map for 10 seconds and understand everything going on)

Standard (Requires some thought but not overly confusing to decide how to play.

Hard (I play this map only after looking over all of the strategic choices it for about 5-10 minutes before I start my turn)

Insane (Thank goodness for BOB!)

Maybe each map has a complexity rating as well as a standard 0-5 star rating. That way the rating would be set by the people who play them. Complex does not mean bad. And easy does not mean good.

There would be a 0-5 star rating for each map (rolling average)
and there would be a basic to Insane graph (rolling average) with a point displaying where all of the ratings currently place the map among the choices.

WM

wcaclimbing · Post by **wcaclimbing** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:04 pm

Expand the continent section into:

world maps/continents/regions

Then that could include the current list:

-Classic
-Africa
-Arctic
-Asia
-Australia
-Europe
-North America
-South America
-World 2.1

And also:

-Puget Sound
-Midle East
-Great Lakes
-Extreme Global Warming
-Duck and Cover
-Cairn Coral Coast
-Caribean Islands

becaues those are all regions of land or variations on the world map.

EDIT: or break those 3 (world, reigon, continents) into 3 different sections:

World:
Classic
Duck and C
Extreme Global Warming
World 2.1

Continent:
Africa
Asia
Australia
Europe
North America
South America

Reigons:
Arctic
Cairns Coral Coast
Carribean Islands
Great Lakes
Middle East
Puget Sound

I might have missed a few, but this way works for me...

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:07 pm

I think it should be

World/Continent

and

Country/Region

wcaclimbing · Post by **wcaclimbing** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:08 pm

WidowMakers wrote:I think it should be

World/Continent

and

Country/Region

See my edit to my previous post.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:13 pm

how about some little symbols in keeping with the maps theme

crossed swords for historic

compass for geographic

etc.

if a map is in multiple categories it gets multiple symbols as you would see in hotel guidebooks etc.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:17 pm

since when is 8 thoughts a fantasy world map? and why isn't doodle in continent maps?

These map dont have nothing with Magic?

How would you rate this map in terms of play ( how much mental power do you need to use to play this map)?
Basic (an illiterate baby could play)

Easy (I can look at the map for 10 seconds and understand everything going on)

Standard (Requires some thought but not overly confusing to decide how to play.

Hard (I play this map only after looking over all of the strategic choices it for about 5-10 minutes before I start my turn)

Insane (Thank goodness for BOB!)

Maybe each map has a complexity rating as well as a standard 0-5 star rating. That way the rating would be set by the people who play them. Complex does not mean bad. And easy does not mean good.

There would be a 0-5 star rating for each map (rolling average)
and there would be a basic to Insane graph (rolling average) with a point displaying where all of the ratings currently place the map among the choices.

WM

Well if we continue searching solution in these formula-Complexity of map,i say that 80 procent of map is easy,because they not complex maps,only few map is complex.
I honestly think that 95% people not interesting what level is map complex,and only want to play interesting maps.And you like others Map Foundry Comunity see that a very small numbers of people participiate in making maps,and that people only interesting to play.
Well to conclude these is mine Sugestion for Map Category,ofcourse some changes can put like you and wcaclimbsg sugested.(Worldmaps/continents/regions-one category-History/War Maps-second Category.................)

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:22 pm

rebelman
Chat Sage

Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 2608
Location: People's Republic of Cork
Posted: 27 Dec 2007 00:13 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how about some little symbols in keeping with the maps theme

crossed swords for historic

compass for geographic

etc.

if a map is in multiple categories it gets multiple symbols as you would see in hotel guidebooks etc.

Why will be in two category?History Maps go to History Category,and World/Continent maps go to another Category.I realy can not se Africa map to go in History Category,also Pearl Harbour can not go to Word Maps Category.

Map Organization Project [Ver 3 - Pg 13]

What is your favorite category?