Iraq Statistics

[Carebian Knight]

People claim the US is making money over this war....don't you realize it costs money to do this?

Dont you realize how much Halliburton is making?

And if the US was making money...why would the US Dollar be falling with regards to all other world currencies?

Bush is ruining the american dollar, however, him and his gang are making BILLIONS off of Halliburton

.... Why do we have more outstanding National Debt than ever before?

War much?

You think the US went to war to make a couple CEO's wealthy? Are you insance? I really don't understand your logic.....

I understand his logic... We were waiting for an approval from the Congress but did bush wait for that Approval? Nope. He attacked Iraq before the congress had time to approve or Reject so now that you guys start the mess, you had to "clean it up"

And Bush would immolate his nations currency so him and his corporate group of thugs will be neck deep in cash

....money is being "blow up". If we were there for the oil...why isn't it ours then?

Youre right... Id rather "blow up" hundreds of Iraqi's than a few thousand dollars- I mean, a few hundred... 100 Iraqi's arent worth a thousand, excuse me

and regarding THORNHEART: Get out of Texas...

Last I checked Bush didn't need Congress' approval to send troops to Iraq.

[Carebian Knight]

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

Man. Diluded.

I'm not going to insult, because it achieves nothing. (I didn't consider calling your son a glorofied murderer an insult, I considered in truth)

The US is the beacon of freedom and hope for humanity??? You have got to be kidding me. Considering the US has built it's empire on the back of slaves (and continues to run on the back of third world labour) - It's only freedom if your white. (go ask some North American Indians what they think the USA stands for, and it is THEIR country after all)

I guess once you are hypnotised by the stars and stripes there's not much hope really.

Last I checked there was an Indian War, while it was unfair to the Indians how it was done. We didn't just take all of the land from them. We fought them, yes slaughtered at times. But if we hadn't, we'd be living in tepees right now eating bison.

[unriggable]

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

Man. Diluded.

I'm not going to insult, because it achieves nothing. (I didn't consider calling your son a glorofied murderer an insult, I considered in truth)

The US is the beacon of freedom and hope for humanity??? You have got to be kidding me. Considering the US has built it's empire on the back of slaves (and continues to run on the back of third world labour) - It's only freedom if your white. (go ask some North American Indians what they think the USA stands for, and it is THEIR country after all)

I guess once you are hypnotised by the stars and stripes there's not much hope really.

Last I checked there was an Indian War, while it was unfair to the Indians how it was done. We didn't just take all of the land from them. We fought them, yes slaughtered at times. But if we hadn't, we'd be living in tepees right now eating bison.

No...we'd be living in houses, we could have followed through with our treaties, instead we kill 96% of them and leave them stripped of their land. That last comment shows your thought process - two cultures cannot live together in your opinion, which is obviously not true. Even then its not like the europeans, with their superior technology, will turn to teepees, it would most likely be the other way around (the way it is for the inuit - who stopped using harpoons and started using guns).

[Carebian Knight]

Actually, it's the guys on the ground who know the MOST about why we are there. They saw the results of what was going on before we got there and they struggle against the results of those actions by the past regimes every single day. It is not easy to teach an entire nation right from wrong and get them to stand up for themselves so that we can leave and return to the lives and families that were left behind.

Actually, it's not easy to force an entire country, with thousands of years of it's own culture, to become Westernised against it's will.

It's just insulting that there are those who wouldn't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighborhood, let alone risk their life for others by fighting for their freedom, and yet will still come to forums like this and make stupid remarks about things they know absolutely nothing about. Except what they read on some stupid website somewhere or watch on Al-Jazeera.

It's good that you have an intimate understanding of the personalities of all the people who have differing opinions to yourself and know exactly what they will and will not do. If you didn't, you might have to resort to actual reasoning, rather than accusing them to be freedom-hating, Al-Jazeera watching, filthy excuses for human beings who "won't lift a finger to help someone in their own neighbourhood".

OhMyGod! Jay was right! THEY really do spy on us at all times!

It is obvious that they themselves are ungrateful. The U.S. has pulled their butts out of the fire so many times and they did not complain then. But now we are pulling the Iraqis out of the fire and those very same people just whine and complain about how "evil" we are for doing so.

This one confuses me. Apparently I am actually an entire continent. Sorry to burst your bubble, Joey, but were I a multi-billion ton continent, with an area measured in the hundreds of square kilometres, I would find it rather difficult to operate a keyboard.
I am not Australia. You are not the US. The number of times The Avatar of Freedom and Goodness, better known as the US is has "pulled Australia's butt out of the fire" is utterly irrelivant.

Or perhaps they are really just bigots and don't think we should be helping Muslims.

See two responses up.

Or perhaps they are just jealous that their own nation is only providing a token force to help out while we have leaders strong enough to do what is right instead of what is popular. And theirs just bow and scrape to the majority in their own countries.

Of course. Who could accuse any US politician of bowing to public pressure. I think it is quite clear that US politicians, and in fact, all US citizens are utterly perfect and uncorruptable in every way.

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

You know, I asked this time and time again in the 4th of July thread a while ago and I never got a real answer. It's been a few months, so I might as well try again.

What trait, possessed only by US citizens, makes the US the "best" nation in the world.

I admit, I'm not expecting a very comprehensible answer, but one can always hope.



P.S."extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed"?

What about Zimbabwe, who's dictator has completely screwed their economy? What about Rwanda, locked in bloody civil war? What about Sudan, where ethnic cleansing takes place every day?

These places need a huge invasion force more than Iraq ever did, yet the US government effectively does nothing.

Wait, so first you accuse the US of wrong doing because we invaded Iraq, but then say we should instead invade an African country? A continent that to this day has seen the smallest amount of tue civilization other than Antarctica. Why don't we stick to rebuilding crumbling civilizations before we build new ones.

What the US has done in the past is relevant. The training of the troops is the same, therefore the soldiers have the same type of abilities. So what American troops did in Australia during WWII can and does correspond to our troops abilities today.

Saying what we've done in the past is irrelevant is like saying that someone who loans you money when you need it doesn't deserve the money back because it's all in the past.

[got tonkaed]

Last I checked Bush didn't need Congress' approval to send troops to Iraq.

i suppose its just a minor semantic thing that you are absolutly wrong about.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... ted_States

actually the president does need congress to declare war, and the executive branches power to act on its own was limited after vietnam.

Its ok to be a little wrong, but your not supposed to be absolutly wrong.

[Carebian Knight]

So go ahead and call me a flag-waver, a red-white-and-blue blood, call me whatever you want. But I support our Nation, which is still the best on the Earth, because it is the first one to stand up for what is right and go do the dirty work that others will not. We are still the beacon of freedom and the hope for humanity. You can sit on the outside and snipe away in your jealousy and pettiness, or you can try to work within your own nation for its greatness. I don't really care what you do. But I DO know what the silent majority of Americans are going to do . . . the same thing we have always done, extend a hand out to the rest of the world when it is needed, lead where no other nation will, and bring hope to those who have none.

Insult away for that statement if you will. It won't mean a thing because the truth is unassailable.

Man. Diluded.

I'm not going to insult, because it achieves nothing. (I didn't consider calling your son a glorofied murderer an insult, I considered in truth)

The US is the beacon of freedom and hope for humanity??? You have got to be kidding me. Considering the US has built it's empire on the back of slaves (and continues to run on the back of third world labour) - It's only freedom if your white. (go ask some North American Indians what they think the USA stands for, and it is THEIR country after all)

I guess once you are hypnotised by the stars and stripes there's not much hope really.

Last I checked there was an Indian War, while it was unfair to the Indians how it was done. We didn't just take all of the land from them. We fought them, yes slaughtered at times. But if we hadn't, we'd be living in tepees right now eating bison.

No...we'd be living in houses, we could have followed through with our treaties, instead we kill 96% of them and leave them stripped of their land. That last comment shows your thought process - two cultures cannot live together in your opinion, which is obviously not true. Even then its not like the europeans, with their superior technology, will turn to teepees, it would most likely be the other way around (the way it is for the inuit - who stopped using harpoons and started using guns).

Obviously you didn't read between the lines there. I didn't literally mean living in tepees. The Native Americans broke their share of treaties as well. You can name just about any war and find that both sides did something to bring it about. Except the wars that were waged simply for conquest, for example Hitler's invasion of the Sudentenland and Poland.

PS. I'm part Cherokee and part Blackfoot, two Native American tribes that absolutely hated each other. So obviously I have to know that 2 cultures can exist together.

[Carebian Knight]

Last I checked Bush didn't need Congress' approval to send troops to Iraq.

i suppose its just a minor semantic thing that you are absolutly wrong about.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio ... ted_States

actually the president does need congress to declare war, and the executive branches power to act on its own was limited after vietnam.

Its ok to be a little wrong, but your not supposed to be absolutly wrong.

I never said anything about Bush needing approval of Congress to declare war, I said Bush doesn't need approval to send troops to Iraq.

PS. You can't really use wikipedia as a credible source. While it does have many facts, it's composed of articles made by the public. Which means someone might not have proper evidence to support their article.

[Snorri1234]

Wait, so first you accuse the US of wrong doing because we invaded Iraq, but then say we should instead invade an African country? A continent that to this day has seen the smallest amount of tue civilization other than Antarctica. Why don't we stick to rebuilding crumbling civilizations before we build new ones.

He isn't saying that you should invade it. He is saying there is more reason to invade them than to invade Iraq.

What the US has done in the past is relevant. The training of the troops is the same, therefore the soldiers have the same type of abilities. So what American troops did in Australia during WWII can and does correspond to our troops abilities today.
Saying what we've done in the past is irrelevant is like saying that someone who loans you money when you need it doesn't deserve the money back because it's all in the past.

Past experiences do not justify anything.
If you can't understand that just because you helped us in the past doesn't justify everything you will do, then this debate shouldn't get past this page.

[Neutrino]

Wait, so first you accuse the US of wrong doing because we invaded Iraq, but then say we should instead invade an African country? A continent that to this day has seen the smallest amount of tue civilization other than Antarctica. Why don't we stick to rebuilding crumbling civilizations before we build new ones.

One of the reasons for the Iraq invasion I hear touted quite often was to "free the poor Iraqi's from their constant oppression and ethnic cleansing."
If stopping ethnic cleansing is your objective, Africa is a much better place to start.
The US stomps on the lesser human rights breach and leaves the far larger one to fester.

What the US has done in the past is relevant. The training of the troops is the same, therefore the soldiers have the same type of abilities. So what American troops did in Australia during WWII can and does correspond to our troops abilities today.

Huh? "Troops' abilities"? I don't know where you got the idea from, but I'm not arguing the point that modern day US soldiers are somehow inferior to WW2 US soldiers.

Saying what we've done in the past is irrelevant is like saying that someone who loans you money when you need it doesn't deserve the money back because it's all in the past.

Not it is not and does not. A better analogy would be: why should I bow and scrape to you, just 'cause the company that employs me owes money to the company that employes you. Both organizations are so far above us that it is pointless to try to draw authority from them.

Actually, that analogy was pretty crap, but I presume you get the point.

[got tonkaed]

I never said anything about Bush needing approval of Congress to declare war, I said Bush doesn't need approval to send troops to Iraq.

PS. You can't really use wikipedia as a credible source. While it does have many facts, it's composed of articles made by the public. Which means someone might not have proper evidence to support their article.

your actually still wrong.....bush does need congressional support to add to pretty much everything the troops do. Thats why hes consistently sayin congress needs to do their jobs by passing bills.

And on the wikipedia thing, grow up a bit. For an academic work, yes an individual shouldnt use wikipeida. But for common knowledge information it is a much faster portal that a lot other avenues. Since you lack the common knowledge to begin with, seemingly you dont to be busting anyone for using the quick access search portal, especially on information that is apolitical, and likely doesnt not have a slant.

[Carebian Knight]

I never said anything about Bush needing approval of Congress to declare war, I said Bush doesn't need approval to send troops to Iraq.

PS. You can't really use wikipedia as a credible source. While it does have many facts, it's composed of articles made by the public. Which means someone might not have proper evidence to support their article.

your actually still wrong.....bush does need congressional support to add to pretty much everything the troops do. Thats why hes consistently sayin congress needs to do their jobs by passing bills.

And on the wikipedia thing, grow up a bit. For an academic work, yes an individual shouldnt use wikipeida. But for common knowledge information it is a much faster portal that a lot other avenues. Since you lack the common knowledge to begin with, seemingly you dont to be busting anyone for using the quick access search portal, especially on information that is apolitical, and likely doesnt not have a slant.

The president is allowed to send troops anywhere, whenever he feels the need. That is why he is Commander in Chief. He needs Congress' approval to declare war and to keep those troops there more than 2 months tops. He does NOT need their consent to send troops to Iraq.

[got tonkaed]

The president is allowed to send troops anywhere, whenever he feels the need. That is why he is Commander in Chief. He needs Congress' approval to declare war and to keep those troops there more than 2 months tops. He does NOT need their consent to send troops to Iraq.

he does however need congressional approval to pass bills to allow the sending of supplies and reinforce the troops as well. If hes going to send anyone anywhere, he needs the passing of congressional actions, and it seems like you kinda need congressional support to making anything effective.

[comic boy]

Bush cant even spell half the countries in the World yet alone know where they are,the idea that he could even wipe his arse without help would be pushing it

[PhatJoey]

And on the wikipedia thing, grow up a bit. For an academic work, yes an individual shouldnt use wikipeida. But for common knowledge information it is a much faster portal that a lot other avenues. Since you lack the common knowledge to begin with, seemingly you dont to be busting anyone for using the quick access search portal, especially on information that is apolitical, and likely doesnt not have a slant.

Wiki not political?!! Not slanted?!!!

Wow. Aren't we naive.

[PhatJoey]

Bush cant even spell half the countries in the World yet alone know where they are,the idea that he could even wipe his arse without help would be pushing it

For someone who knows nothing apparently (based solely on your posts) about grammar and punctuation, it is very ironic that you would choose his lack of capability with regards to spelling to use as an example.

[InkL0sed]

And on the wikipedia thing, grow up a bit. For an academic work, yes an individual shouldnt use wikipeida. But for common knowledge information it is a much faster portal that a lot other avenues. Since you lack the common knowledge to begin with, seemingly you dont to be busting anyone for using the quick access search portal, especially on information that is apolitical, and likely doesnt not have a slant.

Wiki not political?!! Not slanted?!!!

Wow. Aren't we naive.

This implies that you have found an unbiased source of information. Please, direct me to it.

[muy_thaiguy]

And on the wikipedia thing, grow up a bit. For an academic work, yes an individual shouldnt use wikipeida. But for common knowledge information it is a much faster portal that a lot other avenues. Since you lack the common knowledge to begin with, seemingly you dont to be busting anyone for using the quick access search portal, especially on information that is apolitical, and likely doesnt not have a slant.

Wiki not political?!! Not slanted?!!!

Wow. Aren't we naive.

This implies that you have found an unbiased source of information. Please, direct me to it.

Me.

[suggs]

So we are agreed.
Sadaam turned Irag into a under cover killing zone.
And the USA have just messed it up even more.
Good work lads.

[muy_thaiguy]

So we are agreed.
Sadaam turned Irag into a under cover killing zone.
And the USA have just messed it up even more.
Good work lads.

Just keep drinking your tea and eating your crumpets, and no one will get hurt...

[suggs]

So we are agreed.
Sadaam turned Irag into a under cover killing zone.
And the USA have just messed it up even more.
Good work lads.

Just keep drinking your tea and eating your crumpets, and no one will get hurt...

if everyone did that, the world would be a better place.

[muy_thaiguy]

So we are agreed.
Sadaam turned Irag into a under cover killing zone.
And the USA have just messed it up even more.
Good work lads.

Just keep drinking your tea and eating your crumpets, and no one will get hurt...

if everyone did that, the world would be a better place.

I hate crumpets and really picky about tea.

[suggs]

Yeah doesnt surprise me. Get back to me when you have some taste

[muy_thaiguy]

Yeah doesnt surprise me. Get back to me when you have some taste

Apple Pie?

[jay_a2j]

Did you know that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911?

Did you know that our military followed orders to invade Iraq leaving Osama free to escape?

Did you know that 10,000's of Iraqi civilians have died to "secure Saddam's WMD's" (which btw were never found)

and yeah, I'd say forcing Democracy on a people is a form of Fascism.


but hey, at least they have indoor plumbing now


but I digress......

[Neoteny]

They have indoor plumbing?