The Foggy Tournament [WINNER: toto.fish]

by **barterer2002** on Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:57 pm

With Midkemia out of the loop I've replaced it with Age of Realms: Might.

The fourth set of games is out.

by **chopsiu** on Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:30 pm

game # 1358243 group 2 third set
won by chopsiu
thanks

by **DukeToshiro** on Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:19 am

Game 1358269 won by DukeToshiro.

by **chopsiu** on Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:09 pm

game # 1358238 won by chopsiu
berlin 1961 group 2 3rd set
thanks

by **fireheart** on Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:18 pm

Fireheart won game 1358252. (Arctic)

by **Mec26** on Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:53 pm

Forgot to post.

Mec 26 won games:
1358216
1358208
1222798

by **DukeToshiro** on Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:07 pm

DukeToshiro won game 1399921

by **Mec26** on Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:39 pm

Mec 26 wins game 1399859

by **barterer2002** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:10 am

Optimus Prime will be replacing Faceman for the final 4 games.

by **Bwana** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:05 pm

Valley Of The Kings 1304463

Won by Bwana

by **Hrvat** on Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:11 am

The Foggy Tournament - group 2 third set

Game 1358255
Hrvat wins

also game 1399890
Hrvat wins

by **Mec26** on Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:57 pm

Mec 26 wins 1358230

by **Bwana** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:26 pm

Hay all.

I think this is a little unfair. You all have played so great all tournament. We have a few “Ringers” in our group. “freyme” and “Optimus Prime” where late substitute. They come in late to this tournament with 4 and 3 wins that they did not earn. I feel that no substitutions should have be made so late in the tournament. If a player drops out then he is out, no one should get a free win. If I where to drop out now, how would you guys feel about my 6 wins going to a player coming in with out playing one game?

2 players go on from our group to the finals. Freyme is in the number 2 position without winning a single game.

Bwana

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:42 pm

(edited wrong so deleted this one to prevent a double post).

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:43 pm

The alternative is to play those games as three player games (which is also unfair in a different way). Substitutions are nothing new for tournaments, they happen in every tournament I've been a part of.

by **soundout9** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:49 pm

game 1399868 and 1399855 are still waiting for a player and it's been over a week

by **barterer2002** on Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:58 pm

There are a few fremiums in the tournament who should all be playing 4 tournament games. When they finish up the one's they're currently in they move on to the next one.

by **Godd** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:27 pm

group 2 third set
1358248 Godd Wins

Subsitutes are fine for they will be easier to beat in the finals

by **JDill8** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:56 pm

JDill8 won game 1304412

by **magneto_acolyte** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:40 pm

Bwana wrote:Hay all.

I think this is a little unfair. You all have played so great all tournament. We have a few “Ringers” in our group. “freyme” and “Optimus Prime” where late substitute. They come in late to this tournament with 4 and 3 wins that they did not earn. I feel that no substitutions should have be made so late in the tournament. If a player drops out then he is out, no one should get a free win. If I where to drop out now, how would you guys feel about my 6 wins going to a player coming in with out playing one game?

2 players go on from our group to the finals. Freyme is in the number 2 position without winning a single game.

Bwana

I may be wrong Bart but what I think Bwana means is substitutes should not get credit for wins of guys they replaced, As an example a guy drops out after 8 games and won 4 then substitute won 2 of 8 then drop out should be listed as 4 for 8(50 %) and his replacement as 2 for 8(25 %) and finalists should be guys with highest percentage of wins. As it is now substitute would be listed as winning 6 of 16 and might make finals ahead of better player. I know this would be more work for you but it would be fairer.

by **barterer2002** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:32 pm

Well here's the perspective I'm using. Each grouping has 16 slots in it. Number each player 1 through 16. The player in the 8 slot changed at the midpoint but that slot still won 6 of the 16 games (split in some combination between the two players). My contention is that it is not inherantly unfair for a player who won 5 of the 16 games (call him Player 3) to lose out to the players who combined as player 8 to win 6 of the 16.

The way I see it there are a couple of options I as the organizer has.

1). Forfeit out that spot and play the tournament with 3 or even 2 player games. This would be unfair to those who had to play against that slot early in the tournament and didnt have the better odds of winning the three player game.
2). Create a fictitious account that would deadbeat out. As a solution this is even worse than number one as it essentially makes it a 3 player game and adds an extra 72 hours to the game not to mention is against the rules of CC.
3). Get a substutite to play in the slot.-This is the solution that is typically used in tournaments that I've seen.

When using a substutite then there are two options. Either the substitute steps into the shoes of the player they're substituting for or they start over from scratch. There are pluses and minues to either solution.

If they start from scratch then those who join late in the tournament are essentially eliminated before they even have a chance to play. Even those who join early may have this issue. Its difficult enough to find players to step in for the middle part of a tournament without additionally penalizing them. There is also no reason that a player who wins 4 of 16 games deserves to go to the finals over a player who wins 4 of 12 who steps in for a player who had won 1 of 4 (giving the two of them 5 of 16).

On the flip side, as has been pointed out, a player like Freyme who steps into a slot where a previous player won 3 games (of

and then goes on to win 3 of 8 gets to the finals over a player who played the entire tournament and wins 5 of his 16 games.

My reaction is that making players start over from scratch is not a better solution but I'm open to other ideas if any are out there.

by **fireheart** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:17 pm

With a tournament of this size there are bound to be folks who for one reason or another have to drop out. I am happy that there are people willing to come into the tournament so we can finish it. I personally do not have a problem with pretending that the new guy is stepping into the old guys shoes. This means if his predecessor won 3 games, then he starts there. It is the luck of the draw, he might be stepping into the shoes of a guy who has won no games. To me this solution is less disruptive to the tournament as a whole, the rest of us can keep playing our games as usual this way. It is also the easiest solution because they just drops in the spots and do not need any revamping of the tournament maps.

by **cazmart** on Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:35 pm

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1399881

CAZMART WINS

by **KidWhisky** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:10 am

KidWhisky wins Game 1399865

by **KidWhisky** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:16 am

I think that the way it is set up works good. If a player is doing good and is replaced by a bad player he should in all liklyhood not make it to the finals. However if the replacement is good then he is just following up on the first guys success. That is a bit confusing. Anyway I think that it is good the way it is. You run a good tourny barter.