Logic dictates that there is a God!

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:23 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
dacey wrote:Man, I really hate religious people trying to prove there is a god by saying "how else did everything come about?" WTF! Where the hell did this God come from? If s/he is allowed to come out of nowhere, why can't we? And anyway, there is excellent proof about evolution and whatnot. I'm still waiting on the proof that God exists.

Because He is all-powerful and we are not.
Not "we" in the sense of humans, but We in the sense of the Universe. The Creator and the Big Bang are basically the same since they created everything.

No one is contesting a Big Bang.... God spoke and BANG! ...it was. Try to follow.....the universe is a gigantic black emptiness with nothing in it. There is nothing in it to even have a Big Bang. Now how can you cite the Big Bang as the start of everything? How ever "stuff" came into existence, the source must have been all-powerful and eternal. ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.

Listen dumbass, I'm not going to give you any more leniency since this has been explained enough. There isn't a before the big bang since time doesn't begin until the big bang. There is not outside time.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 am

unriggable wrote:
Listen dumbass, I'm not going to give you any more leniency since this has been explained enough. There isn't a before the big bang since time doesn't begin until the big bang. There is not outside time.

***nominated for the dumbest post of the year***

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 am

jay_a2j wrote: No, God always was. He was always here, He didn't "come"from anything.

jay_a2j wrote: ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.

i love it when he contradicts himself.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:37 am

jay_a2j wrote:
unriggable wrote:
Listen dumbass, I'm not going to give you any more leniency since this has been explained enough. There isn't a before the big bang since time doesn't begin until the big bang. There is not outside time.

***nominated for the dumbest post of the year***

Coming from the guy who seemed to forget his zealous approval for Bush barely a year ago.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:37 am

mr. incrediball wrote:
jay_a2j wrote: No, God always was. He was always here, He didn't "come"from anything.

jay_a2j wrote: ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.
i love it when he contradicts himself.

Read S L O W L Y. It is not a contradiction. Something cannot come from nothing. But can come from something that already exists, God who is eternal.

Neoteny · Post by **Neoteny** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:39 am

jay_a2j wrote:
mr. incrediball wrote:
jay_a2j wrote: No, God always was. He was always here, He didn't "come"from anything.

jay_a2j wrote: ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.
i love it when he contradicts himself.

Read S L O W L Y. It is not a contradiction. Something cannot come from nothing. But can come from something that already exists, God who is eternal.

I'll write it slowly so you can read it even slower.

If
god
exists,
it
is
a
something,
and
you
say
"something
cannot
come
from
nothing."
Therefore,
it
is
not
eternal.

Just asserting god is eternal doesn't solve anything.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:45 am

Neoteny wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
mr. incrediball wrote:
jay_a2j wrote: No, God always was. He was always here, He didn't "come"from anything.

jay_a2j wrote: ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.
i love it when he contradicts himself.

Read S L O W L Y. It is not a contradiction. Something cannot come from nothing. But can come from something that already exists, God who is eternal.
I'll write it slowly so you can read it even slower.

If
god
exists,
it
is
a
something,
and
you
say
"something
cannot
come
from
nothing."
Therefore,
it
is
not
eternal.

Just asserting god is eternal doesn't solve anything.

Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:53 am

jay_a2j wrote: Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!

nothing as complicated as a god can be eternal. god needs energy to produce energy. tell me jay, what exactly does god eat? or is his food eternal as well?

p.s: raising your voice doesn't work over the internet.

Neoteny · Post by **Neoteny** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:53 am

jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!

Like the universe, perhaps?

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:24 pm

mr. incrediball wrote:
jay_a2j wrote: No one is contesting a Big Bang.... God spoke and BANG! ...it was. Try to follow.....the universe is a gigantic black emptiness with nothing in it. There is nothing in it to even have a Big Bang. Now how can you cite the Big Bang as the start of everything? How ever "stuff" came into existence, the source must have been all-powerful and eternal. ANYTHING else is buying the notion that SOMETHING can come from NOTHING.
so you don't believe it took him seven days? interesting...

the universe is an infinite space, inside it are stars, planets, galaxies and possibly dark matter. there's not just something, there's infinite material!

so you're saying god didn't come from nothing?

he ignored me...

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:28 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!

As did the Big Bang. It had always existed, was eternal... How is your theistic God any different to the Big Bang?

Face it, Jay, you cannot get your head around any other option. When we say 'big bang' you see a test tube with everything in it which needs a big God scientist to start the chemical reaction. The Big Bang essentially started itself.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:49 pm

Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!
As did the Big Bang. It had always existed, was eternal... How is your theistic God any different to the Big Bang?

Face it, Jay, you cannot get your head around any other option. When we say 'big bang' you see a test tube with everything in it which needs a big God scientist to start the chemical reaction. The Big Bang essentially started itself.

So, the Big Bang is God...the creator of all things? Let me go and worship the great, mighty Big Bang! [/sarcasm]

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:51 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!
As did the Big Bang. It had always existed, was eternal... How is your theistic God any different to the Big Bang?

Face it, Jay, you cannot get your head around any other option. When we say 'big bang' you see a test tube with everything in it which needs a big God scientist to start the chemical reaction. The Big Bang essentially started itself.

So, the Big Bang is God...the creator of all things? Let me go and worship the great, mighty Big Bang! [/sarcasm]

jay, that was pathetic. you said yourself, that whatever started the universe should be called god, so firstly, you just zinged yourself there

secondly, just because something started the universe doesn't mean it needs to be viewed as something powerful, worshippable, or even intelligent.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:52 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!
As did the Big Bang. It had always existed, was eternal... How is your theistic God any different to the Big Bang?

Face it, Jay, you cannot get your head around any other option. When we say 'big bang' you see a test tube with everything in it which needs a big God scientist to start the chemical reaction. The Big Bang essentially started itself.

So, the Big Bang is God...the creator of all things? Let me go and worship the great, mighty Big Bang! [/sarcasm]

Why should you worship it?

All I'm asking is that your wonderful 'logic' give us any indication of WHAT the creator should be... No-ones asking you to worship anything. Just answer a simple question logically.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:56 pm

mr. incrediball wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
Guiscard wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Something that is eternal, always existed, THEREFORE, NEVER CAME FROM NOTHING AS IT WAS ALWAYS IN EXISTENCE!
As did the Big Bang. It had always existed, was eternal... How is your theistic God any different to the Big Bang?

Face it, Jay, you cannot get your head around any other option. When we say 'big bang' you see a test tube with everything in it which needs a big God scientist to start the chemical reaction. The Big Bang essentially started itself.

So, the Big Bang is God...the creator of all things? Let me go and worship the great, mighty Big Bang! [/sarcasm]
jay, that was pathetic. you said yourself, that whatever started the universe should be called god, so firstly, you just zinged yourself there

secondly, just because something started the universe doesn't mean it needs to be viewed as something powerful, worshippable, or even intelligent.

Wow, are you reading the same posts as me? No one "zinged" them self.

Secondly, try to make some kind of sense when you post. Whoever designed the universe has intelligence....to think it happened by mere chance is beyond illogical.

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:02 pm

jay_a2j wrote: Secondly, try to make some kind of sense when you post. Whoever designed the universe has intelligence....to think it happened by mere chance is beyond illogical.

beyond i-!? do you have any idea what you just said!?

you believe that some guy sat there (having existed for eternity), decided to create a universe, created two people, meaning their children had to perform incest just to get the human race going, then allowed his creation to stray into a path he didn't want them to, possibly out of sheer lazyness, then create a son (who was also himself) to put them back on track, and then died to end a punishment that he himself carried out...

*gasp for breath*

and you're calling me illogical!?

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:03 pm

jay_a2j wrote: Wow, are you reading the same posts as me? No one "zinged" them self.

You did.

Secondly, try to make some kind of sense when you post. Whoever designed the universe has intelligence....to think it happened by mere chance is beyond illogical.

1. This claim lacks any substance. It is nothing more than a subjective assertion. That design is far from self-evident is demonstrated by the difficulty people have in trying to describe the objective evidence for it.

2. There are good reasons why people should see design that is not there.
* Humans anthropomorphize. We tend to attribute our humanlike qualities to all sorts of things. Since design is what humans do, we attribute it far and wide.
* Evolution and some human design both involve complex systems dealing with the same physical constraints (Csete and Doyle 2002).
* Evolution has much in common with a design process. It generates trial-and-error modifications of existing forms and discards the inferior versions.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:16 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Whoever designed the universe has intelligence....to think it happened by mere chance is beyond illogical.

It is only illogical in your mind because you have a deeply vested interest in proving your magical gods exist.

You will fight to the death on this one because if evolution were proven not ti be true (or even if you slipped a bit and had some doubt) it would result in the majority of your life, if not all, having been wasted worshiping a fantasy. Since nobody wants to learn that something they have lived for all their life is a myth, I fully expect you to laugh at every bit of logic thrown your way if it doesn't fit in your paradigm. That much is very logical.

Demonisher · Post by **Demonisher** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:22 pm

Backglass wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Whoever designed the universe has intelligence....to think it happened by mere chance is beyond illogical.
It is only illogical in your mind because you have a deeply vested interest in proving your magical gods exist.

You will fight to the death on this one because if evolution were proven not ti be true (or even if you slipped a bit and had some doubt) it would result in the majority of your life, if not all, having been wasted worshiping a fantasy. Since nobody wants to learn that something they have lived for all their life is a myth, I fully expect you to laugh at every bit of logic thrown your way if it doesn't fit in your paradigm. That much is very logical.

doesn't everyone in the world do this?

suggs · Post by **suggs** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:38 pm

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:46 pm

What I want to know is: Why does there have to be a creation of the universe? Why is it that the universe can't just be something that always has been and always will be. How old is the universe? Infinite. Guess what, something that is infinite years old allows for such... illogical things to happen, such as human life springing originally from amino acids and such. "Life springing from monkey's!? Impossible! The universe is not random! It has an intelligent creator! Duh!" sounds a lot like "Lose 30 against 2!? Impossible! The dice are not random! Their rigged! Duh!" to me. But, with thousands of dice rolls (infinite amount of time) a day, such things are very possible and likely to happen.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:50 pm

hecter wrote:What I want to know is: Why does there have to be a creation of the universe? Why is it that the universe can't just be something that always has been and always will be. How old is the universe? Infinite. Guess what, something that is infinite years old allows for such... illogical things to happen, such as human life springing originally from amino acids and such. "Life springing from monkey's!? Impossible! The universe is not random! It has an intelligent creator! Duh!" sounds a lot like "Lose 30 against 2!? Impossible! The dice are not random! Their rigged! Duh!" to me. But, with thousands of dice rolls (infinite amount of time) a day, such things are very possible and likely to happen.

FYI It's not infinite. It's 13 billion

bloknayrb · Post by **bloknayrb** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:52 pm

hecter wrote:What I want to know is: Why does there have to be a creation of the universe? Why is it that the universe can't just be something that always has been and always will be. How old is the universe? Infinite. Guess what, something that is infinite years old allows for such... illogical things to happen, such as human life springing originally from amino acids and such. "Life springing from monkey's!? Impossible! The universe is not random! It has an intelligent creator! Duh!" sounds a lot like "Lose 30 against 2!? Impossible! The dice are not random! Their rigged! Duh!" to me. But, with thousands of dice rolls (infinite amount of time) a day, such things are very possible and likely to happen.

Actually, I think science estimates the universe at something like 15 billion years old...
(Just butting in...)

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:54 pm

bloknayrb wrote:
hecter wrote:What I want to know is: Why does there have to be a creation of the universe? Why is it that the universe can't just be something that always has been and always will be. How old is the universe? Infinite. Guess what, something that is infinite years old allows for such... illogical things to happen, such as human life springing originally from amino acids and such. "Life springing from monkey's!? Impossible! The universe is not random! It has an intelligent creator! Duh!" sounds a lot like "Lose 30 against 2!? Impossible! The dice are not random! Their rigged! Duh!" to me. But, with thousands of dice rolls (infinite amount of time) a day, such things are very possible and likely to happen.
Actually, I think science estimates the universe at something like 15 billion years old...
(Just butting in...)

but it's area is infinite, which makes anything just as likely as if its age was infinite

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:56 pm

You guys are right.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/age.html
About 13.7 giga years (billion years). That's still a helluva long time for shit to happen.

Logic dictates that there is a God!

Does God exist?