Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:38 pm

bspride wrote:Why all the theatre for anything? If you enjoy something you shouldnt need anything to help you continue enjoying it. But without these "theatre" what helps bring new people in? Why commercials and ads: to bring people in, even though the church is about more things its still a business, but it just so happens its boss created everything.

Exactly...hence commandments at courthouses and prayers at football games. It shouldn't be necessary if faith is all you need. But they need it for promotional purposes.

Neoteny · Post by **Neoteny** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:23 pm

Or turn Lake Superior into Wine.

As an atheist, I have to say: if this actually happened, I would love god forever!

neoni · Post by **neoni** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:25 pm

please will somebody (not a christian) explain to me why christians think saying "DURR IT'S CALLED FAITH, IT DOESN'T NEED EVIDENCE" is a logical reason for believing in something.

Neoteny · Post by **Neoteny** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:43 pm

neoni wrote:please will somebody (not a christian) explain to me why christians think saying "DURR IT'S CALLED FAITH, IT DOESN'T NEED EVIDENCE" is a logical reason for believing in something.

Because faith is, for a reason I don't understand, held to be the most important virtue in any religion, and, for some reason, everyone is expected to respect that as valid. What religious people don't understand is that faith is not a valid argument for a discussion that is based on reason and evidence.

For example, one could have faith that I will be able to figure out how to name someone when I'm quoting them. Or, you could look at how many posts I have and determine that, as far as forum posting goes, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

QED: god doesn't exist.

EDIT: AHAH!!! I figured it out... I'm proud of myself...

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:55 pm

doesnt life revolve around faith? dont you have to have faith to believe your are going to wake up this morning! Do you have faith that your family member will live after a heart attack...without faith what is there?

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:18 pm

bspride wrote:doesnt life revolve around faith? dont you have to have faith to believe your are going to wake up this morning! Do you have faith that your family member will live after a heart attack...without faith what is there?

Umm, I believe the facts, the probabilities, whatever. If my father is in surgery and the doctor said 'he might not make it' than that's it. I try to ready myself for what could be a horrifying future. Faith only gets in the way, puts you in denial. Like Karl Marx says, its "the opiate of the masses", meaning that people use faith to escape from the grim reality they really live in.

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:21 pm

you said you believe in the facts...which is "Faith"...you just proved my point thank you

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:22 pm

bspride wrote:you said you believe in the facts...which is "Faith"...you just proved my point thank you

But faith is blind. It ends in your mind. Facts is from somewhere physical.

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:28 pm

But u must believe in your mind about things that are physical. and thats called faith

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:30 pm

bspride wrote:But u must believe in your mind about things that are physical. and thats called faith

What's the point of having a discussion with somebody who is convinced they are seeing Tyler Durden?

You don't see god. You don't see jesus. You do, however, get accurate results through a microscope that bacteria exist and are a major cause for illness.

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:37 pm

No shit...i understand what your saying...but about the probabilities you still have to have faith that they will work out.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:40 pm

bspride wrote:No shit...i understand what your saying...but about the probabilities you still have to have faith that they will work out.

There is an 80% chance a swear will not be in my next post. That isn't faith, it's choosing sides. Common sense. Anybody with common sense will know that faith is meaningless now that we have the ability to know almost anything and everything.

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:42 pm

So if we know almost everything why dont we know what created the earth or all those tiny little bacteria. sometimes when you have faith life is easier. and get off me about drinking those our Protestants and i am anti-Protestant.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:47 pm

Well obviously not thinking about stuff makes your life easier, but is that a good reason?

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:51 pm

is it a bad thing?

daddy1gringo · Post by **daddy1gringo** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:53 pm

neoni wrote:please will somebody (not a christian) explain to me why christians think saying "DURR IT'S CALLED FAITH, IT DOESN'T NEED EVIDENCE" is a logical reason for believing in something.

Different Christians believe for different reasons, and understand and explain things in different ways. We are obviously not all the same. Before you stereotype all Christians as an excuse to ignore the valid points of others, read my posts and those of Luns 101, CrazyAnglican, OnlyAmbrose (also Catholic like bspride) and Mr.Nate, among others. You probably won't agree with us, with the possible exception of an occasional point here and there, but I don't think you'll be able to say the same thing.

In bspride's defense, he wasn't talking to you, initially. He was answering coffeecream and his question "why do you believe?" It's a free country and he has a right to his faith and his own reasons. If you don't like his reasons, you have a right to ignore them.

Reading your post again, I'm sorry, I realize now you were not speaking to me either, but were asking for "not a Christian" which doesn't describe me. Nevertheless I hope this was helpful in understanding what you were asking about.

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:58 pm

thank you gringo

suggs · Post by **suggs** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:25 pm

I just hope, Christians, that you never wake up...enjoy your dream. I'm envious.

(Ah I've sinned again-crikey its difficult being doomed to eternal damnation curses foiled again?.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:35 pm

suggs wrote:I just hope, Christians, that you never wake up...enjoy your dream. I'm envious.

It's a wonderful ride!

Jehan · Post by **Jehan** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:39 pm

Just a question, what makes people assume nothing exists, as in nothing itself, is something which can be, I'm pretty sure there is no observable instance of nothing in the known universe, so I wonder why people automatically assume that it must exist, cynicism?

suggs · Post by **suggs** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:39 pm

and about as relevant to reality as all fun fair rides

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:01 pm

suggs wrote:and about as relevant to reality as all fun fair rides

Well, I don't see how you can make such a statement unless you are omniscient. For me, it changed my life from hanging out with people who liked to get into trouble to a person who likes to assist others. That's pretty relevant to society. Wouldn't you say people helping less fortunate people who are going through tough times is a good thing?

JackLife · Post by **JackLife** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:16 pm

Lets all calm down here. Let us kneel before Jesus and let him spread his salvation over our faces!

bspride · Post by **bspride** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:56 pm

szt szt szt funny man are we...may you kneel before satan and ask for eternal forgiveness...jk

CoffeeCream · Post by **CoffeeCream** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:54 am

I've been away for awhile working but also reading. The Bible certainly is a lot different than what I've been told. So I'm reading in Romans now as well. A friend told me that Romans is like the Constitution of the Bible. I have to say that the first chapter disturbed me very much. In Romans it condems just about everything.

These are the things I found in just Romans 1 that are condemned:

Idol worship, sexual impurity, worshipping creatures instead of God, homosexual behavior, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossiping, slandering, hating God, insolence, being arrogant and boastful, and being disobedient to your parents. That's quite a list.

So Jesus Freaks most of these I understand because they're easy. How would you define sexual impurity though? Would it be committing adultery or just having sex without being married? I was thinking it's people who engage in things you would only see on some weird porno site. Also, how would you define strife? How does someone commit the sin of strife?

Here's another thing to think about. Can it be true that gossiping about someone or disobeying your parents is really as bad as murder? I know lots of people that disobey their parents. I don't think that's as bad as murdering someone though. I hope you don't think I'm justifying disrespect towards a parent, it's just hard to stomach some of these things being as bad as others.