Dust Bowl [Quenched]

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:44 am

CURRENT MAP
http://www.rjbeals.com/dustbowl/finals5 ... rge_R6.jpg

Original map Below:
http://www.rjbeals.com/dustbowl/webview ... prelim.jpg

DUSTBOWL (36 Territories)

I was inspired to start a new map based on the dust storms in the high plains (Central USA) during the 1930's. I'm almost through reading "Worst Hard Times" which describes the events around what came to be known as the "Dustbowl". Great book with vivid memories from people who lived through it. Most non-USA members probably don't know of these events, so I would like to keep some sort of description on the actual map.

Here's my problems so far:
1) I realize that there was no "war" surrounding the dust storms so It's kinda tricky to build a CC map around this. Basically what I have now is just a map. The central shaded region is the actual "dustbowl" and where the worst of the storms occurred. I don't know how to build bonuses around this. Also, I know most people wanted to leave the area, but couldn't financially (it was also during the great depression) - so why would people be battling to hold the dustbowl region and get a bonus for it?

2) It's hard to divide the regions up - I was thinking what if each city in the state could attack any other city in the same state? And only cross state lines by way of the center "dustbowl" region? Is the map to chaotic looking without borders?

3) I'm okay with basic maps (like above) but not great at art when it comes to the fine touches like others are skilled at. Like adding old post fences, windmills or even cattle skulls to dress up the map, but I'm afraid it will ruin it. This was known as the grasslands when the American Indians owned the land so I was maybe going to try and add grass patches outside of the main area - and maybe tumbleweeds or cactus's on the playable map areas... just not sure.

Anyway - I'm looking for help with playability, graphic suggestions, bonus ideas & general thoughts. Thanks guys.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:53 am

RJ...nice start effort...i can relate to your thinking on this one, although i don't know if the rest of the Foundry will.
I recently watched the movie "the Grapes of Wrath" which in some ways is a cousin of this aspect you have here, and my immediate thoughts were....

What if you combined the idea of a dustbowl/come Grapes of Wrath/come Mosanto type map where the villian is the large agricultural land owners and grain developers of the American plains. Only a suggestion, but one that would be topical I think to gain everyone's interest.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:23 am

hmm.. nice idea. And the American Indians who roamed the grass lands for hundreds of years could be on the outside / the farmers who plowed all the lands to get rich could be on the inside. That's a little intimidating though for me to create. Thanks for starting out the thread discussion nicely cairns.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:41 am

looks good, fresh idea, keep going.

I GOT SERVED · Post by **I GOT SERVED** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:58 pm

I like the idea. I'd love to see some more progress on this.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:24 pm

Being an Oklahoma Native, and having had to read "Grapes of Wrath" about a dozen times, I have to say I love this idea..

However, your cities are REALLY out of place Geographically... Also, there are different cities that were a lot more prominent and important at those times that I would prefer to see on the map...

GREAT idea, though!

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:34 pm

I'm in love with the idea. I don't see why we can't have a map that isn't based around some kind of conflict. As for the graphics, I'm really liking the simple, clean look for the most part. It could use a little bit of embellishment (emphasis on little) here and there, but for the most part, I'm really liking it.

As for gameplay, here are some simple starting points:

1. Give each "state" a bonus amount for holding all of the cities within it.
2. Dustbowl cities could have one of those graduating bonus scales like....3 cites = +1, 4 cities = +2, 6 cities = +4, etc.

That's all I have for now, but like Anarkist said, I'm from Oklahoma as well, and would love to see this map become a reality.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:38 pm

Plus, you need to watch yoru spelling...

It's Wichita, not however you have it spelled...

Topeka is much farther north... OKC is in the center of Oklahoma...

If you want some help with the town placement and stuff, just let me know.

BaldAdonis · Post by **BaldAdonis** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:58 pm

New Mexico doesn't have any cities in the dustbowl, so it's isolated. Put one in there, take out Cheyenne, and give a bonus to the northern region. Or leave Cheyenne in and give a bonus to all four of them in the north.

I like that everyone in the dustbowl can attack each other, but I'd rather see connections within each state between cities, otherwise it would get very chaotic.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:14 pm

Anarkistsdream wrote:However, your cities are REALLY out of place Geographically... Also, there are different cities that were a lot more prominent and important at those times that I would prefer to see on the map...

If you can tell me what cities were more prominent - please do. I used what I could from the book, but had a hard time researching other cities from the area.

Anarkistsdream wrote:Plus, you need to watch your spelling...It's Wichita, not however you have it spelled...Topeka is much farther north... OKC is in the center of Oklahoma...If you want some help with the town placement and stuff, just let me know.

I'll fix the spelling. And I think there are many cities around the panhandle (no mans land) that experienced the worst of the storms, but it was hard to position so much around that small area. I tried to spread out the cities to make it a little more visually appealing. I also wanted to keep the state names on the actual map - and not use a different color for each state, then have the state name color coordinated on the legend. I think it fits the map better - so I had to work around the state names - which is why I positioned some of the cities where they are.

I want to keep the count at 36 territories. I'm finding recently that I've preferred the smaller maps rather than the large ones.

BaldAdonis wrote:New Mexico doesn't have any cities in the dustbowl, so it's isolated. Put one in there, take out Cheyenne, and give a bonus to the northern region. Or leave Cheyenne in and give a bonus to all four of them in the north.

According to the map in the book, at the very least Clayton was located in the dustbowl area. But you are right, only the far right side of the state was effected. If you think I should take out cities in NM, I can - but I was trying to keep the map balanced. I'm also not sure what you mean about the northern region bonus - but I'll be working on the map & we'll figure out the bonus's eventually - thanks all for comments.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:36 pm

Or maybe I should zoom in more to exclude New Mexico? I'll play around a bit - I'm not here over the weekend so I'll respond / update next week.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:36 am

Get rid of Shattuck and Elk City in Oklahoma.

Add Lawton, exactly where you have Elk City now, and add Guthrie, which is the old state capital. Guthrie would be RIGHT above where you have Oklahoma written, directly in the middle of the state.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:09 pm

I like the idea, in general. That its not a battle is no big deal -- just look at the "merchant" board. With that board in mind, you could either have it be a competition between dust and green OR, you could have a basic goal of setting up farming communities and towns, with the dust bowl as the overlooming threat. Perhaps wells could go dry, cattle sicken, etc. in a stratified random (similar damage to each player) or straight random effect. Or, you could just make it the more or less normal goal of folks trying to take all the territory, but have cattle, crops, etc. Crops might lead less points, but too many cattle would lead to dust bowl disaster ...

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:44 pm

Anarkistsdream wrote:Get rid of Shattuck and Elk City in Oklahoma.

Add Lawton, exactly where you have Elk City now, and add Guthrie, which is the old state capital. Guthrie would be RIGHT above where you have Oklahoma written, directly in the middle of the state.

Anarkistsdream wrote: Plus, you need to watch yoru spelling...It's Wichita, not however you have it spelled...

Okay - done.

Rev-1.
I didn't like the rounded inner region on the original map. I added territory borders & added shaded territories to represent the severely effected inner region. I still like the the suggestions of having a crop bonus, or maybe a rain bonus or something - but I'm still working on the rough map outline.

Please comment on borders / overall game play. The borders are not real and just drawn in to separate territories. Most of the central US States have grid-like counties, which don't work in CC with 4-way borders.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:04 pm

That dusty area is too big for the minus bonus to count - maybe make it for every two states.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:45 pm

I love the revision. The idea of using the "counties" works out really well. I'm not sure about the negative bonus though....can't decide what would work best with that. It would probably rarely come into play for the most part.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:48 pm

Make holding the entire drought area more damning. I'd say -9 or -10.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:51 pm

Coleman wrote:Make holding the entire drought area more damning. I'd say -9 or -10.

I wanted to - but don't understand how it would work? Since you start out w/ 3 minimum I thought that would be the most to "not start with". However, maybe it could take 1 army off each territory - until you only have 1 man left on each... or maybe even take away that 1 man and make it neutral..

hhmm.... me likes!

Or maybe no matter what, whoever holds those regions should always lose 1 army at the start of every game?

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:53 pm

I don't think in any game it is possible to start with the entire drought area. Maybe I need to count again.

Rats, you can in 3 and 2 player...

Okay then... Maybe make it -3 for any x amount or something.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:56 pm

I didn't mean start with the entire drought area. I meant that at the start of each turn, you get a minimum of 3 armies to place (besides apocalypse map). I wasn't sure how xml would figure out to take 8 or 9 armies away. Like would it take 1 man off each territory you owned? That's what I meant. But you've sparked an interest though.

I GOT SERVED · Post by **I GOT SERVED** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:36 pm

Firstly, I like the progress this map is making. But I have one question.

You have one section to the left of Lubbock (Texas) that isn't named. Is this an extension of one territory? Or is it a different territory all together?

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:02 pm

I GOT SERVED wrote:Firstly, I like the progress this map is making. But I have one question.

You have one section to the left of Lubbock (Texas) that isn't named. Is this an extension of one territory? Or is it a different territory all together?

Thanks - and that is just a dead territory. Just there to keep the map flowing, however it will not be in play.

tenio · Post by **tenio** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:49 pm

Maybe you could have something like hold 3 territories in dust bowl = -3

hold 6= - 1

hold all = + ?

spiesr · Post by **spiesr** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:54 pm

No, it would be better like:
3=-1
6=-2
and so on with whatever numbas you like...

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:00 pm

unpassable borders? the rockies should be in there, as should some rivers... the Platte?

Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Do you want to have the map changed so Dust territories are given out evenly?

Dust Bowl [Quenched]