The Day After Pill

[jay_a2j]

a place of fire and brimstone, where there is weeping and knashing of teeth.

Where in the bible is this passage from Jay?

Math 8:12


Math 5:22, 25:41

MK 9:43

Rev 20:14


There are many verses on hell. If your Bible has a concordence look up "hell" or "fire"

[Spuzzell]

I don't really care about what the Catholics believe as I am not one of them. But I do care about Exodus 21:22 which says, 'If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.'
In the older version of Exodus the part that says with child is actually the word haw-raw or haw-ree meaning pregnant or concieved, which only further proves that abortion is wrong.

What? How can you possibly relate that to abortion?

So Exodus says if a man beats a woman who has chosen to bear a child and causes a miscarriage he should be punished.

Well, firstly, way to go Exodus. Without that kind of revolutionary moral leadership, I'd have been really confused about the right response to that situation. I might have bought the guy who beat up a woman and caused her to lose her baby a drink or something.

Secondly, this scripture has zero relevance to abortion! I hate this about all religions. Its perfectly possible to justify any narrow minded view by wilfully mis-interpreting a section of holy writ.

Thirdly, the passage continues: "..as the woman's husband shall lay upon him he shall pay with valuation. But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life." (Exodus 21:21-23)

So what it's saying is A: Don't beat another mans wife, B: If you cause a miscarriage you'll get fined and C: ONLY IF THE FOETUS IS FULLY FORMED WILL IT BE REGARDED AS MURDER.

I'll wait for you to mis-understand that in the most advantageous way possible for your viewpoint.


Right, you done? I'll try to explain anyway. You picked those verses, and they support the concept that life does not begin at impregnation.

Actually, thats all I have to say.

[vtmarik]

So life beings when the sperm meets the egg?

So when the two sets of genetic material unite and form all of the 46 chromosomes, it's alive? Before a brain forms and before the cells even turn into a fetus, it's alive? If that's true, than what about other cells? Skin cells contain all 46 chromosomes, is it then wrong to exfoliate? If a child scrapes his knee on the ground, should he not be tended to because he killed thousands of cells?

Personally, I support Plan B. If schools realistically taught kids about sex, it wouldn't be so much of an issue. All they teach now is "Don't have sex" without telling them what to do in case they end up succumbing to their hormones.

And to answer the inevitable response from Jay, if you don't want your kids taking sex ed, you have every right to opt them out of the class. Schools have permission forms for these kinds of things. Hell, I remember my dad having to sign a permission slip allowing me to participate in class projects regarding Macbeth.

[Machiavelli]

So life beings when the sperm meets the egg?

So when the two sets of genetic material unite and form all of the 46 chromosomes, it's alive? Before a brain forms and before the cells even turn into a fetus, it's alive? If that's true, than what about other cells? Skin cells contain all 46 chromosomes, is it then wrong to exfoliate? If a child scrapes his knee on the ground, should he not be tended to because he killed thousands of cells?

Exactly right.


Plan B does not kill a child, it does stop a child from being born but everytime a woman has her period, there's another chance missed that a child could have been born. Should we have had someone impregnate her, so that we didnt miss that chance? Just because someone has the chance at creating a child doesnt mean they should.

[jay_a2j]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

Society has devalued human life. Its sick to say the least.

[heavycola]

The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

This is one of the most nonsensical, bigoted things posted in this thread yet, jay. You are in effect accusing people who believe abortion should be legal of sanctioning torture and murder.

Really? Are all pro-lifers psycopaths?

[jay_a2j]

The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

This is one of the most nonsensical, bigoted things posted in this thread yet, jay. You are in effect accusing people who believe abortion should be legal of sanctioning torture and murder.

Really? Are all pro-lifers psycopaths?

cola, I could simply post "hi" and you would call it bigoted. Face it, you just don't like me. And anything I post you will find fault with. Don't draw conclusions from my posts and then attach that conclusion to me.

[heavycola]

don't get all hurt and offended...

i wouldn't mind an answer though. Are pro-lifers psycopaths? because it seems to me that's what your statement implied. That sawing a living person's head off would be acceptable to someone who thinks abortion should be legal. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

[jay_a2j]

don't get all hurt and offended...

i wouldn't mind an answer though. Are pro-lifers psycopaths? because it seems to me that's what your statement implied. That sawing a living person's head off would be acceptable to someone who thinks abortion should be legal. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

you're wrong.

[heavycola]

why?

[Machiavelli]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

Society has devalued human life. Its sick to say the least.

I dont really care how they raise the chickens or kill the cattle. That was a pretty big generalization.

I dont consider myself republican or democrat, I call 'em like I see 'em and animal rights and abortion are two different topics, so I have two different opinions.


Can you give me an example of where people are getting there head sawed off while still alive? I'm not saying that it's not happening, I really do just want to know where.

[vtmarik]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

So, therefore I ask a question from a different thread:
Since abortion is murder, what punishments should be levied against the mother?

[jay_a2j]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

Society has devalued human life. Its sick to say the least.

I dont really care how they raise the chickens or kill the cattle. That was a pretty big generalization.

I dont consider myself republican or democrat, I call 'em like I see 'em and animal rights and abortion are two different topics, so I have two different opinions.


Can you give me an example of where people are getting there head sawed off while still alive? I'm not saying that it's not happening, I really do just want to know where.

Iraq...Nick Berg, Armstrong and a host of others I watched them on michaelsavage.com and hearing the mans screams turn to gurgles as his blood filled his windpipe was nauseating.

[jay_a2j]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

So, therefore I ask a question from a different thread:
Since abortion is murder, what punishments should be levied against the mother?

Since abortion is murder the Dr. should be charged with murder and the mother an accomplice to murder. But it will never hapen. Even if Republicans controlled ever seat in the house and senate and the presidency it wouldn't happen.

[jay_a2j]

why?

If those who consider (it they exist) sawing a person's head off is equal to that of an abortion THAT has no effect on pro-lifers. An abortionist who thinks that way would more likely fit the term psycopath.

[reverend_kyle]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

So, therefore I ask a question from a different thread:
Since abortion is murder, what punishments should be levied against the mother?

Since abortion is murder the Dr. should be charged with murder and the mother an accomplice to murder. But it will never hapen. Even if Republicans controlled ever seat in the house and senate and the presidency it wouldn't happen.

why because even half of your party, doesnt agree with you?


If you cant get an entire party to agree with you nor half your party to agree with you, wouldnt you be wrong?

[vtmarik]

Since abortion is murder the Dr. should be charged with murder and the mother an accomplice to murder. But it will never hapen. Even if Republicans controlled ever seat in the house and senate and the presidency it wouldn't happen.

Exactly. Do you know why? Because that's crazy.

[Spuzzell]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

Society has devalued human life. Its sick to say the least.

Woah.

OK well, I'm not going to argue with Jay anymore because he's actually scaring me a bit.

I can almost see him frothing at the mouth

I will just say this. The blind disregard the religious right has both for reasoned argument and for the way the human race is evolving is the reason why so many people feel that God has no place in their lives. Extremism is ugly in any form, and I'm hugely sad that its becoming such a large part of my church, particulary in the US and Nigeria.

The world is leaving you behind. Morally you are outdated, practically you have no place in a society where each individual is credited with the intelligence to choose their own path. The church will die if it's shaped by people like you.

[Machiavelli]

It's the extremist/finatics like you that start wars.


Everyone else was bashing Jay, so I thought I'd join in the fun.

[Caleb the Cruel]

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:6
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I [am] a child.

[vtmarik]

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jeremiah 1:6
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I [am] a child.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200608 ... onabortion

RTFA and then DIAF

[jay_a2j]

Give me a break! Comparing abortion (not plan B) to a kid scraping his knee. Yet you are the same people that cringe when you hear how the chickens are raised for KFC, the "inhumane" way of slaughtering cattle. Yet killing humans and you don't miss a moments sleep. Do you even know what going on across the globe? The people are having their heads sawed off while they are still living? No outrage there tho. Guess you would consider them late, late term abortions.

Society has devalued human life. Its sick to say the least.

Woah.

OK well, I'm not going to argue with Jay anymore because he's actually scaring me a bit.

I can almost see him frothing at the mouth

I will just say this. The blind disregard the religious right has both for reasoned argument and for the way the human race is evolving is the reason why so many people feel that God has no place in their lives. Extremism is ugly in any form, and I'm hugely sad that its becoming such a large part of my church, particulary in the US and Nigeria.

The world is leaving you behind. Morally you are outdated, practically you have no place in a society where each individual is credited with the intelligence to choose their own path. The church will die if it's shaped by people like you.

Let me assure you the church won't die.

[jay_a2j]

RTFA and then DIAF

What do all these acronyms mean?

[Caleb the Cruel]

RTFA and then DIAF

What do all these acronyms mean?

i dont know
it's like trying to figure out this
ihni so it mbmuaht

[dragonfly]

i think the morning after pill should always be available. and i think abortion should almost always be available. theres my two cents.

i agree with anyone who agrees with me. i guess i didnt take the time to read the whole thread, but really, sex is the most natural thing, and people make mistakes, and accidents happen. yeah, there can be serious consequences for it, but there doesnt need to be. condoms DO slip, and you dont want to be stuck with a kid alone if the 'dad' just leaves, yknow?