Why is America at war

[sfhbballnut]

who's invading Iran? that makes no sense whatsoever, the gulf war was about protecting our assets of oil in saudi Arabia, but that was a deal we made quite a while ago that we were holding to, Saudi gives us oil, we give them military protection, this was back when protecting oil was a matter of national security as our military would be crippled without it

[sfhbballnut]

a lot of the bad stuff that happens comes from spineless politicians who are so concerned about their position tha they won't do waht need to be done, which is why I have marginal respect for Bush because he's stuck to what he believes is right throughout. He's made mistakes but he's still shown the smallest bit of spine, which is more than most politicians can say

[Bigfalcon65]

a lot of the bad stuff that happens comes from spineless politicians who are so concerned about their position tha they won't do waht need to be done, which is why I have marginal respect for Bush because he's stuck to what he believes is right throughout. He's made mistakes but he's still shown the smallest bit of spine, which is more than most politicians can say

Except for Lenin and Stalin, they did exactly what they said they were gonna do
GO COMMUNISM

[Jenos Ridan]

because George Bush is an idiot and likes to kiss Tony Blairs ass

...did you even know that Britain has a new PM?

shush...if it wants to look like an idiot, let it...

yes as i am british

he is Gordon Brown

He is scottish

His home constituency is Dumfries

i hope he wrecks the britain and america trucey thingy

I hope that we'd have been able to maintain the alliance. I guess I was being a little unpragmatic then. Off to War we go, again.

[OnlyAmbrose]

a lot of the bad stuff that happens comes from spineless politicians who are so concerned about their position tha they won't do waht need to be done, which is why I have marginal respect for Bush because he's stuck to what he believes is right throughout. He's made mistakes but he's still shown the smallest bit of spine, which is more than most politicians can say

Except for Lenin and Stalin, they did exactly what they said they were gonna do
GO COMMUNISM

Stalin told the Russian people that he would kill more people than the Nazis? Riiiiiight...

Russian communism was just capitalism gone wild. In capitalism, you have the moneyed elite (successful entrepreneurs), a middle class which gets smaller as the moneyed elite gets richer (the elite suck wealth from the middle class and force them into poverty), and a poor lower class.

In communism, the above process just gets sped up. The middle class disappears, and the moneyed elite gets smaller, but richer. So you have an unimaginably wealthy upper class and an equal, but equally impoverished, lower class. Capitalism on steroids, as it were. Kind of ironic.

Sorry, but if you're making a case for communism, Stalin and the Soviet Union aren't factors you're going to want to use to make a case.

Not to mention it's universally agreed among historians that Stalin was one of the most power-hungry dictators out there...

[Anarchist]

Well said Ambrose,

Im curious as to what your idea of a good model for society would be?

[SKETRS]

America isn't at war with any counry, there's a war on terrorism in the middle east but as far as a country to country war America isn't in one

There's also our military presence in Iraq, but they're helping to train the new army/police force and supporting the new government, not at war

Not really, they're taking casualties on a daily basis, I'd say that's war.

America hasn't declared war on any particular country, troops are being killed in the middle east, but not by an army from a country, it mostly terrorist and extremists who hate america or just the fact that the troops are there

soory buddy but we declared war on iraq, we havnt declared surrender or victory, we're still in it

Why do you say "WE" thought you were a communist russian?? And GW should be thrown in jail about as lame as it comes. That's like saying you should be thrown in jail you hater.

[OnlyAmbrose]

There is no model society, lol. This is Earth. In the words of James Madison, if men were angels there would be no need for government. Unfortunately, men aren't angels, but on that same token, neither are governments.

I don't think the current American political system is working well, for reasons stated a few pages back in this thread. Basically, too many unintelligent people who get their daily bread of education from a media who is out for profit instead of to inform are participating in the political system. I'm very Hamiltonian in that I don't necessarily think that universal suffrage is a good thing. Well, maybe in the 19th century it was, but now that we have mass media to the point that the lines between truth and very creative embellishment are fading. Blogs are becoming people's newspapers. Newspapers are adopting increasingly radical viewpoints to cope with the newfound and more "interesting" competition. Common sense is getting blotted out by politicians who are just trying to ride the waves of popular sentiment than get things done right.

When you have a system where the people decide who's in power, and those people are easily susceptible to basic, black & white statements (case in point? "We need to pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY!!!"), then you're not going to get anything right done.

On the flip side, once you have limited suffrage, then you have an elite who don't necessarily represent the interests of the nation at large making decisions. Which could also be a problem.

I think there's different governments needed for different times. Laissez-faire economics were great in the 19th century. Not so much in the 20th. Government has to shift with the times, so there's no "right" one which can just be slapped on any society.

Some things I am grateful for, though, are certain fundamental rights which the AMERICAN society (and indeed, most western societies) guarantee- the right for me to think and write about this kind of thing. No matter what type of government is in power, be it constitutional monarchy, limited democracy, or all out democracy, I'm all for freedom. That's as good as we can get it really. Governments should change, but those basic fundamentals are what I look for in a society, and here on earth that's all we can really hope for, because a perfect government is never going to happen.

[s.xkitten]

soory buddy but we declared war on iraq, we havnt declared surrender or victory, we're still in it

nope, we haven't declared war since WWII...

korea and vietnam were 'police actions'...

Iraq...is a 'conflict'...

sorry to burst your bubble...

[Anarchist]

war on drugs
war on poverty

and a few others.

I dont care what you call it, when you start waving that flag and bombing foreign soil its still an act of war.

Like that answer OnlyAmbrose

[s.xkitten]

war on drugs
war on poverty

and a few others.

meh...last time i checked, according to our constitution, you can't declare war on an 'idea' such as terrorism, drugs, or poverty...it has to be a nation, or race of people...oh well...Bush didn't get that memo...

[spurgistan]

war on drugs
war on poverty
and a few others.
I dont care what you call it, when you start waving that flag and bombing foreign soil its still an act of war.

Like that answer OnlyAmbrose

Are you against the War on Poverty? It would have worked pretty damn well, if we didn't need to spend those billions of dollars dropping bombs in the Southeast Asian jungle. What a waste.

[unriggable]

war on drugs
war on poverty
and a few others.
I dont care what you call it, when you start waving that flag and bombing foreign soil its still an act of war.

Like that answer OnlyAmbrose

Are you against the War on Poverty? It would have worked pretty damn well, if we didn't need to spend those billions of dollars dropping bombs in the Southeast Asian jungle. What a waste.

He's right, on bomb was dropped in vietnam for every person living there. Bombs cost several thousand bucks each, we could easily have made decent shelters for the homeless back here in the USA with that money, instead we had to destroy them in vietnam.

[s.xkitten]

we dropped 3x as many bombs on Vietnam as we did on all of Europe during WWII...

that...uhh...move, was called Rolling Thunder...

[OnlyAmbrose]

we dropped 3x as many bombs on Vietnam as we did on all of Europe during WWII...

that...uhh...move, was called Rolling Thunder...

And we all know it worked marvelously.

I hate insurgencies. Normal ways of killing the bastards just don't work.

[Anarchist]

war on drugs
war on poverty
and a few others.
I dont care what you call it, when you start waving that flag and bombing foreign soil its still an act of war.

Like that answer OnlyAmbrose

Are you against the War on Poverty? It would have worked pretty damn well, if we didn't need to spend those billions of dollars dropping bombs in the Southeast Asian jungle. What a waste.

While that is the obvious point(and a good one) I tend to see the approach as quite limited(ill have to refresh my memory on the approach)
lets say I would approach it from a different angle. Granted I dont believe Capitalism works, which may give you some clues. I wish to abolish poverty. Possibly more then I wish to dismantle standardised testing.
However the war on drugs is a failure and a complete waste of time.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Out of curiosity, Anarchist, why do you have a marxist website in your sig when you're supposed to be an anarchist? My understanding is that the two are polar opposite extremes.

[Anarchist]

Not at all, Anarchism is dedicated to freethinking and voluntary sovereign rule. While Socialism is an economic system dedicated to cooperation, with the potential of a free society. Ofcourse as an anarchist i see your rights to live under whatever system you wish, however I demand to be given the same courtesy. Im also an Enviromentalist, Id rather live in the gardens then in your concrete jungles. I see women as equal(if not superiorly delicious) and religion as a conformity I do not want restricting my life. This does not mean im not spiritual, it means im an individual who represents noone but himself and desires the right to do so.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Not at all, Anarchism is dedicated to freethinking

Then modern communism isn't for you

Though I'll concede that modern communist nations are a far cry from Marx's original dream.

[spurgistan]

we dropped 3x as many bombs on Vietnam as we did on all of Europe during WWII...

that...uhh...move, was called Rolling Thunder...

And we all know it worked marvelously.

I hate insurgencies. Normal ways of killing the bastards just don't work.

I prefer the "Not Invading In The First Place" maneuver. When compared to the others, dirt cheap, and easy, too!

[Anarchist]

It surely hasnt worked for Switzerland look at them, theyve been attacked countless times and are completely surrounded by enemies!

Ambrose,
Yes its far away, No Modern Communism is something critically flawed and should be abandoned as a possible system, just like capitalism and organised religion. Anything that allows for control of others will always become corrupted. Therefore it should be unwanted. "Its time not to believe what we are taught but to teach ourselves what we believe."
No man has the right to tell another what to do.

[OnlyAmbrose]

we dropped 3x as many bombs on Vietnam as we did on all of Europe during WWII...

that...uhh...move, was called Rolling Thunder...

And we all know it worked marvelously.

I hate insurgencies. Normal ways of killing the bastards just don't work.

I prefer the "Not Invading In The First Place" maneuver. When compared to the others, dirt cheap, and easy, too!

Unfortunately, since said maneuver was not taken, we're in a mess which will just get messier if we try to crawl out.

When will we ever learn

[luns101]

Modern Communism is something critically flawed and should be abandoned as a possible system, just like capitalism and organised religion.

Not that I agree with you, Anarchist. I just thought you would enjoy this quote from John Kenneth Galbraith...

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."

[Jenos Ridan]

Out of curiosity, Anarchist, why do you have a marxist website in your sig when you're supposed to be an anarchist? My understanding is that the two are polar opposite extremes.

I've oft times wondered that too. Having read the Communist Manifesto once (might have to re-read that soon), I can't see how one isn't trading the frying pan for the fire.

[Jenos Ridan]

It surely hasnt worked for Switzerland look at them, theyve been attacked countless times and are completely surrounded by enemies!

Helps when every able-bodied man is technically a member of the armed forces and your nation is nothing but steep mountains. Kinda hard to invade, but so east to lay siege. I doubt that they grow enough food to feed everybody. As I think was said before, just because it works for Nation A doesn't mean it'll work for everybody else.