Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[degaston]

If I am scum, can anyone explain DDS saying the person who killed strike was squeaky clean?

Actually, that sounds like DDS was making a joke about swang the janitor, not you.

This makes sense.

We should consider that PMC and dega could both be scum. That would only be 4 scum.... not unreasonable in a 'Madness' game... but then I need to explain two false investigation results... I can't link them to the Night Cap since LC, PMC and Devante were all night investigations, while swang and dega were day (Night Cap) investigations...

If there were two scum, the game would be over and they would have won already, because town couldn't lynch anyone.

As for any lingering doubts about LC's role... vanilla scum is kind-of an oxymoron. Scum always has a PR...so Role Madness doesn't require that scum have additional PRs... though Janitor and Godfather would be two standard and likely ones...

For the reason above, I don't think there's any chance that LC was a Fall Guy. Though just a Goon, Janitor and Godfather seems kind of weak for mafia in this setup.

Going back over the thread, this really jumps out at me:
Early on D1, it looks like EW (in the role I took over) was a bit suspicious of LC

Not obvious kong is town Charle. I played the wolves don't know who the other wolves are till N1 line in millars hollow remember.

Like this to me reads like sowing doubt rather than aiming to provide extra info.

Then a couple of days later, there's this:

I for one, have a good feeling about extreme ways being mafia.

Which is immediately followed by:

Ok that's better than my big don't know about extreme and a couple of others.
vote Extreme ways

And then on D2, pmc seemed a little too eager to support LC's claim, and never voted for him. It's not definitive proof of anything, but LC is fairly inexperienced, and this feels like a slip-up to me. I wouldn't think that much of it at the start of a game, but when we're down to four players, and I have to choose one of the other three, this is the kind of stuff I look for to make a choice.

In any case, I'll go along with whatever Vot decides.

[degaston]

In any case, I'll go along with whatever Vot decides.

Unless he wants to lynch me.

[pmchugh]

If I am scum, can anyone explain DDS saying the person who killed strike was squeaky clean?

Actually, that sounds like DDS was making a joke about swang the janitor, not you.
Why do you think it would be you?

I never considered that, but I think the joke doesn't make sense. Janitors are not squeaky clean themselves, even if they clean up the kill. Why would I think it would be about me is obvious. I am innocent and I tried to kill strike!

Frankly, I am not seeing any independent evidence for PMC being a vigilante... though he would still know all the details of strike's killing if he was scum...

@Traf: Why did you have dega say that line about hypnotist three times?

Earlier I said that night kills precede investigations in order of play, but that may not be true... At least one rule online states that kills should be treated as happening at the end of the night. This is important because the jailer (Strike?) met with Traf before being killed the same night. ...However, in that case, I should have received an investigation PM about Devante... but maybe DDS didn't bother since it did become a moot point since Devante role was publicly known at his death.
Also the '9 left alive' was an error, since it went down to '4 left alive' after only four deaths.

That jailer role seems very powerful... jailing/protecting, night communication, and an optional kill!
Maybe there are modifications to that I still don't undersatnd.
If anyone has any more details to add about that, please do.

By the way, DDS informed me that I could still use the Night Cap again today!
I was shocked too.... I thought surely such a powerful object would be limited to just one use...
But since I could, I asked for an investigation on dega. He came back 'innocent'.

So now PMC is 'not suspicious' and dega is 'innocent'...
One simple explanantion is that PMC or dega is an investigation-proof scum Godfather.

We should consider that PMC and dega could both be scum. That would only be 4 scum.... not unreasonable in a 'Madness' game... but then I need to explain two false investigation results... I can't link them to the Night Cap since LC, PMC and Devante were all night investigations, while swang and dega were day (Night Cap) investigations...

As for any lingering doubts about LC's role... vanilla scum is kind-of an oxymoron. Scum always has a PR...so Role Madness doesn't require that scum have additional PRs... though Janitor and Godfather would be two standard and likely ones...

Yes, it is true, the role of 'Fall Guy' makes NO SENSE as a logical/possible false claim... but it could have be still been chosen as such accidentally... or maybe even deliberately by DDS as a giveaway for those paying attention.

The other idea is that LC did somehow know he was a Fall Guy... but that becomes a distorted/useless form of the role. One that even LC should have known to reveal to town...[i] And no, it couldn't have been accompanied by a post restriction... because LC wa sable to claim it.

Anyway, Yes, I do have a good idea of who I want to lynch today... and I think we should do a lymch.
But first, I would like to hear everybody's reply to my post.

Oh wow. And I was complaining this game was too easy.

I guess I need to seriously consider traf now, because unless dega is a Godfather then there is no way that day investigation could be messed with. It's also just rare for investigations to fail, if you consider the last game, I was twice found as mafia, and fusi was found as town, and everyone talked themselves out of it.

It's worth nothing vot that there cannot be two scum unless they are unaligned, because otherwise the game would be over.

How would people feel about no lynch, I vigilante traf? Or is the risk of dega godfather too high?

If traf is scum, he gave away this incredible power to town, which is kind of nuts. I guess he could be 3rd party?

[degaston]

Why would I think it would be about me is obvious. I am innocent and I tried to kill strike!

No. I'm "innocent", and you're just "not suspicious".

So now PMC is 'not suspicious' and dega is 'innocent'...

[pmchugh]

Silly drunk, Bold votes are required but I'm gonna allow it
(Looking at you Kong and Dev.)

So you stick bastards wanted to kill Loose eh? Based on Vots gibber jabber?! So be it!

Loose Cannon Mafia Goon Scummy Dirt Bag in need of a shower has been lynched!

Night 2 has begun! Send me thy actions in 72 hours.

DDS described Loose as dirty and in need a of a shower because he is scum. Would describing swang the scum janitor as squeaky clean, or pmc the town vigilante as squeaky clean make more sense come morning?

[pmchugh]

If vot is scum I have to believe he;
1. Outed loose as scum
2. Cleared me
3. Outed swang as scum
4. Cleared deg as town

This is simply not believable. This would be the hardest bussing I've ever seen from mafia. Even as third party with real cop ability I would really worry about being murdered.

Conclusion: vot is town

Traf, if mafia, gave kong (I would like yo hear why kong), a known towny, a very powerful hat for no reason. He also used the chance to have dega say anything he wanted badly, like, he could have said something much more incriminating. Although I guess he knows that I am vigilante and could rescue the game. Traf also backed up kong and seemed to be part of the solve yesterday.

Conclusion: Traf is likely town

Dega claimed to be a hypnotist day 1 to strike, an extremely bold move if its a lie. Because it forces him to, at some point, out a scum mate. If he tried to use it on a tow ie they would refuse. Which means that it is likely a real role. Then, could it be of use to scum? Kind of yeah, if they can work out who the 3rd parties are, but still, makes more sense as a town role.

Conclusion: Dega is likely town

My role pm says I am town.
Conclusion: the game is over and DDS is trolling us.

More seriously though, I think the traf case is the weakest out of you 3. So my question for him is, why did you target kong night 1?

Vot, can you confirm whether or not you knew that kong gave you the hat?

[degaston]

Conclusion: the game is over and DDS is trolling us.

That would be absolutely hilarious, and I wouldn't put it past DDS to do that, but I don't really think so.

[pmchugh]

Finally, in my own defence I will say, no lynch is definitely better than lynching me if you think I am the only non town. Unless I have multiple kills, there is no way for me to win the game that way as scum. And for me to be scum, I must also have an ability to fool vots investigation. If anyone can believe that I am scum with two kills and investigation manipulation, they just truly be traumatised by the wilds game cause that would be insane.

Really, honestly, reevaluate my position. How could I win the game after no lynch as a non town player?

I will always appear as scum if we make it to day 5 because;
I doubt mafia can roleblock me, or they would have been roleblocking vot. If I kill mafia we win, if I hit the wrong one we lose. I guess the only other possible scenario is that the remaining non town has no kill, but I think that impossible given the number of deaths last night.

I can see very little room for error in this plan, from anyone's perspective. Except for me picking the wrong person to kill tonight.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Ok there were a lot of post while I was sleeping I will try to adress the questions made for me.

When you say player knows, does that mean, kong knows you gave him the hat, or vot knows kong gave him the hat? Also, can the hats keep being passed on? Like, can dega now pass on the post restriction hat?

According to DDS the night cap was the only hat that when received, the other player will get notified of which player gave it to him. the other 2 the player would not know who gave it to him. So Vot should have get notified that Kong gave it to him.

I was thinking if Vot could use it again or not. it had no restriction. So thats a good thing.
Wonder the difference between "Not suspicius" and "innocent"

If traf is scum, he gave away this incredible power to town, which is kind of nuts. I guess he could be 3rd party?

That makes no sense cause I'm town. But well we all sayng that now. But I gave the hat to Kong on purpose was the most townies person on D1. So I gave the hat to Kong for that reason i wanted town to have the hat. cause if we gave it to mafia it would have been horrible. So i wanted to make sure my best hat was on townie hands.

And lol to DDS trolling us. I could believe it. I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

[degaston]

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Pmc has no confirmation of his role.
Traf has no confirmation of his alignment.
I'm feeling like I'm being played somehow, but I'm not sure by whom.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Pmc has no confirmation of his role.
Traf has no confirmation of his alignment.
I'm feeling like I'm being played somehow, but I'm not sure by whom.

Ok, here is my effort to prove I'm town.

I suggested my role as hatter on D1 -Yes not aligment comes out of it I know.

After adressing waht we saw on D1 I decided to gave the best hat to Kong as he was the most townish person so town could use the hat. At the end of D2 I said

So before the days ends. Protections roles on Vot. And also what a good idea if u have an item that would work on daytime that you can pass to vot.

Of course I was speaking to Kong to pass the hat to Vot.

On D3 I made sure we cleared as much townies as possible, even before swang posted or Vot used the hat.

I cleared Kong and Pix, confirmed that u were hypnotist and clarified the situation to everyone.

On N3 I gave u the psot restriction hat. cause I though pmc was the jailer so u were the only suspect on my mind. But that changed when I found otu pmc was not the jailer.

All my stories have been tru and corroborated. like the hats are real and u guys know it. The jailer is real as both u and i were visited by it.

So I am doing my best for a town victory

[degaston]

So I am doing my best for a town victory

It seems like it, which is why I trust you more than pmc... but I have been wrong about my trust before.
So I think it would be nice to hear Vot's thoughts on this.

[degaston]

I suggested my role as hatter on D1 -Yes not aligment comes out of it I know.

Were you required to give out the hats in some particular order?
Did you have to give out a hat every night you were able to?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I suggested my role as hatter on D1 -Yes not aligment comes out of it I know.

Were you required to give out the hats in some particular order?
Did you have to give out a hat every night you were able to?

No, i could give 0 to 3 hats at the time. I was free to used them as I wished

[degaston]

Here is my full story.

I am the Hatter. I Had 3 hats to give.

1 is the night cap. Which allows the user to use his nightpower at day. I gave it to kong on N1 and he gave it to vot n2. Player knows who gave him the hat

The thing I don't like about this is that this power would be pretty useless to almost anyone except a cop, and you gave it to the most inexperienced player on N1, instead of waiting to find out who the cop was and giving it to him directly.

2 is the beer cap. This makes a player drunk and also allows them to have an investigation with 50-50 chance of the righr results. I had no idea how to use this one as 50-50 seems as good as guessing so I gave them to strike d1. I am not sure if he was forced to act as a drunk but he did. Which i believe it was smart way to figure who gave it to him as player does not know who gave him the hat.
...
My story is n1 I gave 2 hats 1 to kong and 1 to strike.

Regarding the pink text, just for clarification, I assume you meant you gave it to strike on N1, not D1?
As for the blue text, how does his acting drunk help someone figure out who gave it to him?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Here is my full story.

I am the Hatter. I Had 3 hats to give.

1 is the night cap. Which allows the user to use his nightpower at day. I gave it to kong on N1 and he gave it to vot n2. Player knows who gave him the hat

The thing I don't like about this is that this power would be pretty useless to almost anyone except a cop, and you gave it to the most inexperienced player on N1, instead of waiting to find out who the cop was and giving it to him directly.

2 is the beer cap. This makes a player drunk and also allows them to have an investigation with 50-50 chance of the righr results. I had no idea how to use this one as 50-50 seems as good as guessing so I gave them to strike d1. I am not sure if he was forced to act as a drunk but he did. Which i believe it was smart way to figure who gave it to him as player does not know who gave him the hat.
...
My story is n1 I gave 2 hats 1 to kong and 1 to strike.

Regarding the pink text, just for clarification, I assume you meant you gave it to strike on N1, not D1?
As for the blue text, how does his acting drunk help someone figure out who gave it to him?

Yes, i meant N1. Hats can only be passed at Night. Why Kong? cause as i said I was almost sure I was town. what if I had died on N1, the hat would have been lost.

The hats had some description. For instance. The beer cap said it turned them into a beligerant drunk. While most people were saying what ahppened to him. i comente Strike became a beligerant drunk so maybe he knew I gave it to him. bases on the reactions and comments from people

[degaston]

i comente Strike became a beligerant drunk so maybe he knew I gave it to him. bases on the reactions and comments from people

Ok, that at least checks out, and it looks like he got it.

I ain't no mean drunk, you schlanderer. I shud punch you Fer that.

Did you know that Kong could pass his hat to someone else?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

i comente Strike became a beligerant drunk so maybe he knew I gave it to him. bases on the reactions and comments from people

Ok, that at least checks out, and it looks like he got it.

I ain't no mean drunk, you schlanderer. I shud punch you Fer that.

Did you know that Kong could pass his hat to someone else?

Yes, I asked DDS if the hats could be passed around. he confirmed it

[pmchugh]

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Pmc has no confirmation of his role.
Traf has no confirmation of his alignment.
I'm feeling like I'm being played somehow, but I'm not sure by whom.

Ok, here is my effort to prove I'm town.

I suggested my role as hatter on D1 -Yes not aligment comes out of it I know.

After adressing waht we saw on D1 I decided to gave the best hat to Kong as he was the most townish person so town could use the hat. At the end of D2 I said

So before the days ends. Protections roles on Vot. And also what a good idea if u have an item that would work on daytime that you can pass to vot.

Of course I was speaking to Kong to pass the hat to Vot.

On D3 I made sure we cleared as much townies as possible, even before swang posted or Vot used the hat.

I cleared Kong and Pix, confirmed that u were hypnotist and clarified the situation to everyone.

On N3 I gave u the psot restriction hat. cause I though pmc was the jailer so u were the only suspect on my mind. But that changed when I found otu pmc was not the jailer.

All my stories have been tru and corroborated. like the hats are real and u guys know it. The jailer is real as both u and i were visited by it.

So I am doing my best for a town victory

I missed that prod to kong which does strengthen your case. I do think giving it to kong was an odd choice, as I would be worried he messed it up. I wonder why they get notified who gave it to them? I guess it means that if you give it to mafia they can kill you, otherwise it would be a burden for mafia. Although it also gives evil hatters reason to give it away.

So if I believe this, I have to believe that dega claimed hypnotist night 1 as is investigation immune. I guess he could use this as mafia to route out 3rd party and investigation immune hypnotist seems a little thematic. Still.

I can't believe it's vot. If I tried it would look like, there was no cop, mafia told this. Loose really was a Fall Guy. Vot outing swang was because swang was able to forewarn mafia that he had been hypnotised . He doesn't kill during the day as it would give himself away. He said I was not suspicious rather than innocent because he doesn't know of I am third party. Yeah this story is way too much of a stretch.

Vot, who do you think is more likely wolf out of the other two?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Conclusion: the game is over and DDS is trolling us.

That would be absolutely hilarious, and I wouldn't put it past DDS to do that, but I don't really think so.

Do you guys just like giving me ideas to screw with you or is this just a social circle thing?

[Votanic]

To answer the question, yes, DDS told me Kong gave me the hat. I didn't know about Traf's involvement until the next day.

@ Traf: This may be a minor/random point but what was the idea of having dega say that line three times?

As for how to handle endgame...

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Yeah, I see the safety in this option...

...but I'll say right now, I think PMC is scum, Godfather to be exact.
No guarantee he will night-kill (or vig) dega, ...probably me.

But that doesn't matter... As long as the other two townies lynch him tomorrow, assuming the game is still going.
Vote No Lynch

[pmchugh]

To answer the question, yes, DDS told me Kong gave me the hat. I didn't know about Traf's involvement until the next day.

@ Traf: This may be a minor/random point but what was the idea of having dega say that line three times?

As for how to handle endgame...

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Yeah, I see the safety in this option...

...but I'll say right now, I think PMC is scum, Godfather to be exact.
No guarantee he will night-kill (or vig) dega, ...probably me.

But that doesn't matter... As long as the other two townies lynch him tomorrow, assuming the game is still going.
Vote No Lynch

OK, I recognise this belief but I really need you to consider the other two because I am not sure who to kill. What do you think of degas hypnotist plus innocent cop check combination?

[degaston]

To answer the question, yes, DDS told me Kong gave me the hat. I didn't know about Traf's involvement until the next day.

@ Traf: This may be a minor/random point but what was the idea of having dega say that line three times?

As for how to handle endgame...

I think the best outcome is No lynch and PMC to vig Dega.

We only lose if pmc is mafia and has 2 night kills. how are we feeling about this?

Yeah, I see the safety in this option...

...but I'll say right now, I think PMC is scum, Godfather to be exact.
No guarantee he will night-kill (or vig) dega, ...probably me.

But that doesn't matter... As long as the other two townies lynch him tomorrow, assuming the game is still going.
Vote No Lynch

If Traf is the scum and a town pmc vigs me, then we lose, but whatever - the game has to end one way or another.

Vote No Lynch

[Votanic]

...and the idea of another Third Party winning by just surviving still exists... but if even if that is out there, it's just too cryptic to do anything about.

[degaston]

...and the idea of another Third Party winning by just surviving still exists... but if even if that is out there, it's just too cryptic to do anything about.

I can't believe that there would be more 3p than scum. That would be really weird, even for DDS.

If pmc is scum and doesn't have a double killing power, then this should work. My main concern is the possibility that Traf has some kind of a made up scum "Mad Hatter" role, where he was forced to give out hats to non-scum players. The only "evidence" I have for this is that I think giving the power hat to Kong on N1 was not the most pro-town use of it.