The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow Wolves win

[Devante]

Not much of a touch when it's the truth. Why would I lie, I don't have immunity. If you die and not the white wolf town kills me, if I'm right then the wolves will eat me. It's a shitty way for me either way, and as a new player a hell of a choice to make. The only benefit is at least town has one less wolf to deal with that hates both sides, wolves and town. So I'm now dead either way. But you chose not to kill a wolf yesterday so you're no benefit to town only yourself.

[Devante]

And since you're the white wolf, barber doesn't die. Your mistake was claiming to be the seer when that role is already taken by town and jumping the gun forcing me to have to claim

[SoN!c]

The White Werewolf
(called at night)
Experts have
recently observed
that a strange
mutation has
taken place in
the heart of the
lycanthropic
population. This wretched character
hates the other Werewolves every bit as
much as they hate the Villagers!
Each night, the White Werewolf
wakes up and feasts with the other
Werewolves. However, every other night,
upon the moderator's call, they wake up
a second time, alone, and may eliminate
one of the Werewolves.
This character's goal is to be the sole
survivor in the village. If they succeed,
they win the game. If the rest of the
Werewolves meet their win condition,
the game ends as usual but the White
Werewolf does not share the victory. ...

Look its either 2 wolves Deve and Charle against LC or Deve is telling the truth...


Swang, barb LC

[Votanic]

Fair play to you Devante - I like the white wolf touch

Are you denying this? Speak now and explain further.

According to the W.O.M.H. Rulebook, the White Wolf only wins if he is the sole survivor...
That is an amazingly difficult win condition, but somewhat easier if you are also the Barkeep.

@ Traf: Are you sure you didn't link the Public roles to specific Secret Roles. First, the Bailiff-Pyromaniac combo and now this? It almost beggars belief.

Then again, Devante might be lying...

[Votanic]

So much suspicious crap going on... where to even begin...

Let's get one (?) smaller problem out of the way first.

First of all, 'biten' isn't even a word.
@Traf, if you meant to put the word 'bitten' after DDS's Town affiliation please correct the spelling...
Could it be just a typo or something else erroneous or misplaced. If so, would you tell us that, or at least correct it?
One player in particular loves to fixiate on typos and other printing errors.
(And you know that other oversight I pointed out to you yesterday would have gone nuclear if 'you-know-who' found it first...)

Is LC the Seer?
1. He says he is.
2. No other Seer has come forward.
3. If another player was the Seer, he should have investigated LC last night and then come forward, if LC was a Wolf.

However, LC has done some suspicious thing such as..
1. Claiming to have investigated EW on Night 1... this would be a safe fake-claim to make since Town knew (since Day 2) that EW is Town because of my Confession. @LC: Why did you choose EW to investigate?
2. He claimed almost unbelievable ignorance about the nature of his own Public barkeep role, the information for which is publicly posted on Page 1 of the thread.
3.His supposed attempt on Day 2 to lose his immunity by leading a lynch against Pixar (that went nowhere) is too bizaarre to even fathom.

Interesting Sidenote:
Ragian also claimed (or pretended) to be woefully ignorant on Day 2 about the nature of the public Barkeep role:

Interesting. If LC is immune to wolves, too, then having him vetted as town is quite nice.

Sometimes it feels like half the town is wolves.. and the other half is smoking crack...

Right now, the evidence is leaning towards LC being the Seer and thus Town...

A Public Notice to any potential player who is the Seer and has not spoken up.
If you exist, you better be reveal yourself... Otherwise, you will snatch the Worst Player Trophy right out of Maxleod's slimy paws, AND THAT WOULD BE BEYOND ALL TOLERANCE. (Scary thought: What if the Seer was mpolo?)

@Charle: Your turn to claim.

FPed by Devante...
See my previous post, which was actually mostly written after this one.

[Votanic]

One happy detail, according to the W.O.M.H. Pact, the Barber can vig the White Werewolf and live.

[Devante]

I find it odd that you come up with the plan to check LC and now go along with LC being seer even though his gameplay has been scummy so far. If he claims seer and we lose the barber then he can achieve his goal of being sole survivor as he will be immune, continue to kill townies with the wolves and then kill the wolves at later stage in the game. there is no benefit to me claiming seer as i will die either way, by town if lying or by wolves once you find out i am telling the truth. My issue coming forward was one I don't want to die, being a new player i'm not sure if revealing myself is actually going to benefit town for when I get killed, two he is the white wolf which could be used by town to kill wolves but he chose not to do so. Then claimed seer clearing the way for his 3rd player objective. Again, there is no benefit to revealing myself as I have no immunity and therefore will now die by the wolves

[Votanic]

I find it odd that you come up with the plan to check LC and now go along with LC being seer even though his gameplay has been scummy so far. If he claims seer and we lose the barber then he can achieve his goal of being sole survivor as he will be immune, continue to kill townies with the wolves and then kill the wolves at later stage in the game. there is no benefit to me claiming seer as i will die either way, by town if lying or by wolves once you find out i am telling the truth. My issue coming forward was one I don't want to die, being a new player i'm not sure if revealing myself is actually going to benefit town for when I get killed, two he is the white wolf which could be used by town to kill wolves but he chose not to do so. Then claimed seer clearing the way for his 3rd player objective. Again, there is no benefit to revealing myself as I have no immunity and therefore will now die by the wolves

I am not just blindly or wholeheartedly accepting what LC says. I am trying to weigh out the evidence...
Before you claimed Seer, the evidence was leaning toward LC, now it needs to be reweighed.

I am surprised that
1. the White Werewolf would be in the game
and
2. That he would be randomly linked to the Barkeep role.

That second point might just be that Traf fibbed about random role distribution.
The mod lying to the players?? Say it ain't so!!
However, that (biten) nonsense better have a good explanation. I will be pissed going down a rabbit hole chasing a typo.

I am now waiting on replies from LC and Traf.

[degaston]

(And you know that other oversight I pointed out to you yesterday would have gone nuclear if 'you-know-who' found it first...)[/b]

I'm just curious what you're talking about here. Could you explain?

[Votanic]

Okay, here is another theory for the biten/bitten thing with DDS.
It is complicated and customized to try to fit the facts... so take it with many grains of salt.

1. When strike was lynched, the AWF power did not die, but was instead transferred to another wolf.
2. That other wolf, now the new AWF, bit DDS on night 1.
3. There is a one day delay between being bitten by the AWF and turning into a Werewolf on the following night.
4. Therefore DDS was still Town at the end of Day 2 when he died, but he would have turned into a werewolf last night.

Two further points about this.
1. It makes me feel a lot better about DDS being killed.
2. (A question) Could DDS being converted have anything to do with the Scandalmonger's accusation?
Not necessarily. It might just have been a coincidence.

[SoN!c]

Sometimes it feels like half the town is wolves.. and the other half is smoking crack...

.

No worries Vot, Pretty sure 100% (everybody in here) is certain about you smoking poke salat or some other turn up greens like ganja or THC too. No need to get paranoid just breathe in, breathe out. Inhale [Ganja], inhale out...now post another [30] page theory and you'll be fine

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Yeah, it was bitten - fixed typo

[Votanic]

(And you know that other oversight I pointed out to you yesterday would have gone nuclear if 'you-know-who' found it first...)[/b]

I'm just curious what you're talking about here. Could you explain?

I guess so...

Until yesterday (RL yesterday) strikewolf's name wasn't crossed of the Player's List. So I pointed this out to Traf and now it is crossed off the Player's List. End of story.

But you can see how a batshit conspiracy could have been built around that. . Something like:
"strikewolf isn't really dead, but has been secretly resurrected and is now just lying low, not posting...!?!?!"
If Sonic had sunk his teeth into that, we'd have been wading through craptastic nonsense posts for days...

[Votanic]

Sometimes it feels like half the town is wolves.. and the other half is smoking crack...

No worries Vot, Pretty sure 100% (everybody in here) is certain about you smoking poke salat or some other turn up greens like ganja or THC too. No need to get paranoid just breathe in, breathe out. Inhale [Ganja], inhale out...now post another [30] page theory and you'll be fine

I agree. This is one of my most brilliant observations. Thanks for noticing.

[SoN!c]

(And you know that other oversight I pointed out to you yesterday would have gone nuclear if 'you-know-who' found it first...)[/b]

I'm just curious what you're talking about here. Could you explain?

I guess so...

Until yesterday (RL yesterday) strikewolf's name wasn't crossed of the Player's List. So I pointed this out to Traf and now it is crossed off the Player's List. End of story.

But you can see how a batshit conspiracy could have been built around that. . Something like:
"strikewolf isn't really dead, but has been secretly resurrected and is now just lying low, not posting...!?!?!"
If Sonic had sunk his teeth into that, we'd have been wading through craptastic nonsense posts for days...

So because i posted "Poked Salat Anne" (by Elvis) i see dead people like Elvis

Man, you must be smoking some goooood shit

[swang918]

A counter seer! How exciting.
I think Devantes claim is much more credible than Loose’s. But first a few thoughts:
1. If devante is lying, we can’t lynch him right away. He gets to pardon himself once.
2. In rereading the setup, lynching Loose’s voted player is not the only way to remove the immunity. Loose loses the immunity if any player that he voted for is “eliminated.” And it doesn’t say has to be the same day. So Loose has voted for EW day 1, Pixar day2, and EW again day 3. I take this to mean that if either Pixar or EW gets lynched, eaten by wolves or vigged by me, Loose loses immunity. This makes him less threatening to town as wolf and also less OP for town if seer.
3. Charle is almost certainly wolf. If Loose is seer, then he’s of course a wolf. If Devante is seer, then Loose is the white wolf. The white wolf would know the identity of the other wolves. It makes sense for the White wolf to offer up a wolf as part of a fake seer claim. If Loose named a townie then he should expect to get lynched pretty soon after.
4. If Devante is lying, there is no reason for him to say that Loose is white wolf, vs just a regular wolf. The point of a fake seer claim from a wolf devante would be to save Charle and get me to vig Loose the real seer. Both are better accomplished by saying Loose is a regular wolf. Naming Loose as 3p just makes it slightly more likely that town spares Loose.

Therefore, Im inclined to believe devante over loose. But will wait to hear others thiughts. We should also make lynch plans for in case i choose wrong.

[SoN!c]

A counter seer! How exciting.
I think Devantes claim is much more credible than Loose’s. But first a few thoughts:
1. If devante is lying, we can’t lynch him right away. He gets to pardon himself once.
2. In rereading the setup, lynching Loose’s voted player is not the only way to remove the immunity. Loose loses the immunity if any player that he voted for is “eliminated.” And it doesn’t say has to be the same day. So Loose has voted for EW day 1, Pixar day2, and EW again day 3. I take this to mean that if either Pixar or EW gets lynched, eaten by wolves or vigged by me, Loose loses immunity. This makes him less threatening to town as wolf and also less OP for town if seer.
3. Charle is almost certainly wolf. If Loose is seer, then he’s of course a wolf. If Devante is seer, then Loose is the white wolf. The white wolf would know the identity of the other wolves. It makes sense for the White wolf to offer up a wolf as part of a fake seer claim. If Loose named a townie then he should expect to get lynched pretty soon after.
4. If Devante is lying, there is no reason for him to say that Loose is white wolf, vs just a regular wolf. The point of a fake seer claim from a wolf devante would be to save Charle and get me to vig Loose the real seer. Both are better accomplished by saying Loose is a regular wolf. Naming Loose as 3p just makes it slightly more likely that town spares Loose.

Therefore, Im inclined to believe devante over loose. But will wait to hear others thiughts. We should also make lynch plans for in case i choose wrong.

100% my idea too Swang

[Ragian]

I mean... What a twist...

This is bold play. Let's not jump to barbers and vigging and what not just now. Let's put this into perspective. (I'd love it if a third person claims seer.)

It's hard this. LC claims to have investigated EW, which at the time of claiming is free due to Vot's confession. Devante claims to have investigated a dead townie, however. That's more or less a draw. If not for the fact that I would find it more logical to investigate DDS than EW.

I'd say it's a bad move if Devante is a wolf jumping in to save his fellow wolf Charle.

FP'ed loads.

[Ragian]

A counter seer! How exciting.
I think Devantes claim is much more credible than Loose’s. But first a few thoughts:
1. If devante is lying, we can’t lynch him right away. He gets to pardon himself once.
2. In rereading the setup, lynching Loose’s voted player is not the only way to remove the immunity. Loose loses the immunity if any player that he voted for is “eliminated.” And it doesn’t say has to be the same day. So Loose has voted for EW day 1, Pixar day2, and EW again day 3. I take this to mean that if either Pixar or EW gets lynched, eaten by wolves or vigged by me, Loose loses immunity. This makes him less threatening to town as wolf and also less OP for town if seer.
3. Charle is almost certainly wolf. If Loose is seer, then he’s of course a wolf. If Devante is seer, then Loose is the white wolf. The white wolf would know the identity of the other wolves. It makes sense for the White wolf to offer up a wolf as part of a fake seer claim. If Loose named a townie then he should expect to get lynched pretty soon after.
4. If Devante is lying, there is no reason for him to say that Loose is white wolf, vs just a regular wolf. The point of a fake seer claim from a wolf devante would be to save Charle and get me to vig Loose the real seer. Both are better accomplished by saying Loose is a regular wolf. Naming Loose as 3p just makes it slightly more likely that town spares Loose.

Therefore, Im inclined to believe devante over loose. But will wait to hear others thiughts. We should also make lynch plans for in case i choose wrong.

Uhh, number three is nice. Cheers.

[degaston]

I mean... What a twist...

This is bold play. Let's not jump to barbers and vigging and what not just now. Let's put this into perspective. (I'd love it if a third person claims seer.)

[Loose Canon]

I was thinking about Devante's claim on the way home.
I'm wondering if he is the White Wolf, hoped Charle would counterclaim me, when he didn't panicked or calculated (not sure which) and claimed I am the White Wolf.

I had been planning to explain who I was thinking of investigating tonight (i had 3 lucky candidates in mind).

I guess I'm going to have to answer questions mainly for now though - but with 2 known wolves on my case (probably a third maybe even a fourth) - I reckon I don't need any more enemies right now.

[Devante]

So your argument is that I brought myself into the spot light knowing I would be killed for doing so, picked the white wolf charactor randomly, and decided to go against you when I could have just sat silently and said nothing and lived. Think white wolfey is dipping into his own ale and this is just weak. Voicing myself when you claimed fake seer and after pointing at charle seemed like the only move to make for town as you continuing on as a fake seer while the white wolf would certainly doom town. Like I said I don't want to die and revealing myself does so. If anything I agree with the idea posted here that when you claimed to be the seer you pointed at a wolf. I would say after you get your haircut and the rest here knows the truth we then look at charle, since you're the white wolf whoever you point at would have to be for a reason which begs the question why charle if not to cement yourself in your fake claim. Give him a haircut and let's be done with this, you can all thank me after

[Votanic]

A counter seer! How exciting.
I think Devantes claim is much more credible than Loose’s. But first a few thoughts:
1. If devante is lying, we can’t lynch him right away. He gets to pardon himself once.
2. In rereading the setup, lynching Loose’s voted player is not the only way to remove the immunity. Loose loses the immunity if any player that he voted for is “eliminated.” And it doesn’t say has to be the same day. So Loose has voted for EW day 1, Pixar day2, and EW again day 3. I take this to mean that if either Pixar or EW gets lynched, eaten by wolves or vigged by me, Loose loses immunity. This makes him less threatening to town as wolf and also less OP for town if seer.
3. Charle is almost certainly wolf. If Loose is seer, then he’s of course a wolf. If Devante is seer, then Loose is the white wolf. The white wolf would know the identity of the other wolves. It makes sense for the White wolf to offer up a wolf as part of a fake seer claim. If Loose named a townie then he should expect to get lynched pretty soon after.
4. If Devante is lying, there is no reason for him to say that Loose is white wolf, vs just a regular wolf. The point of a fake seer claim from a wolf devante would be to save Charle and get me to vig Loose the real seer. Both are better accomplished by saying Loose is a regular wolf. Naming Loose as 3p just makes it slightly more likely that town spares Loose.

Therefore, Im inclined to believe devante over loose. But will wait to hear others thiughts. We should also make lynch plans for in case i choose wrong.

I agree with everything you said, except that LC only loses his immunity by being part of a successful lynch. Wolf attacks and vigs on his chosen vote will not affect him.
Also, the idea that Charle migh be a wolf too is interesting and possible, though I don't think there is enough evidence for that yet.

So Swang, do you feel ready to do a Vig on LC? You know the risks and the rewards. The choice is yours. I for one think it is now a fairly safe bet.

[Votanic]

So your argument is that I brought myself into the spot light knowing I would be killed for doing so, picked the white wolf charactor randomly, and decided to go against you when I could have just sat silently and said nothing and lived. Think white wolfey is dipping into his own ale and this is just weak. Voicing myself when you claimed fake seer and after pointing at charle seemed like the only move to make for town as you continuing on as a fake seer while the white wolf would certainly doom town. Like I said I don't want to die and revealing myself does so. If anything I agree with the idea posted here that when you claimed to be the seer you pointed at a wolf. I would say after you get your haircut and the rest here knows the truth we then look at charle, since you're the white wolf whoever you point at would have to be for a reason which begs the question why charle if not to cement yourself in your fake claim. Give him a haircut and let's be done with this, you can all thank me after

Devante, if you are proven to be Seer, you become the highest priority for Defender protection, at least in my opinion.

As for Charle claiming... He might have a Town role that should stay hidden. Forcing claims is often a risk in that regard.

The only thing that really still bugs me is that the White Wolf role is so hard to win, I'm a little surprised anybody would be burdened with it.
...but then again, there is a large role-playing element to Mafia. Sometimes players get unwinnable roles just because they are fun to play and make the game fun.

[SoN!c]

Look, the game is surely played whit all the crazy shit that happened tonight? Yes some wolves could still drag it out for a day or two but that'll be the end of it?

So to honour Vot that he found the AWF a little song in his honour by ELVIS, Elvis Presley - Elvis In The Greatest Show On Earth and according to some "still very much alive today" [to be found here]:

show

Here is the song to honour Vot

Well played Votanic - striking Gold just like Elvis on D1:



Sock a little Polk salad to him