The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow Wolves win

[Votanic]

The weirdness of the Scandalmonger role continues to gnaw at me.
It should be gnawing at everyone, even the wolves, since it is almost certainly a town role.

In W.O.M.H. the scandalmonger operates without any special intel.
Supposedly, he could somehow possibly get intel b...ut the role as written, is mostly hunch-driven.
As such, the Scandalmonger is mostly a nuisance role.
An experienced player might wisely choose to never even use such a role power becaus eit will only add to the game's WIFOM confusion.
I know, I know, that's 'no fun'... but who ever said Mafia was supposed to be fun??

So who would use it?
Either new Town players who thinks they should use their powers every chance they get,
..or else, not-so-new Town players who self-indulgently refuse to improve their game and do what is best for town.
I won't mention names here...
Nevermind, yes I will: Sonic and Maxleod.

In either case, I must insist that the Scandalmonger stop and listen to me.
@ Scandalmonger: If you are posting rumors based on nothing hunches that you derived from game post and/or meta-game reads, you will stop posting rumors for the good of Town.
You will only continue to post rumors if they are based on private intel that you received*.
This seems doubtful, since even today's rumor doesn't claim DDS is a wolf,but only says that he has not earned Town's trust.
No shit, DDS is not confirmed Town, we already know that.

* Actually, there is no likely game mechanism fo the Scandalmonger to be receiving secret Intel.
Not unless we imagine some bizarre scenario where the Scandalmonger and the Seer or Little Girl are Lovers** that communicate at night.

** Good grief!? I meant the in-game W.O.M.H. Lovers roles....

[Thor60]

Vote Max

[degaston]

The weirdness of the Scandalmonger role continues to gnaw at me.
It should be gnawing at everyone, even the wolves, since it is almost certainly a town role.

If I understand the game mechanics correctly, I don't see any way for the Scandalmonger to be a wolf.
I don't much like it, but I don't see that there's anything we can do about it other than to say knock it off unless town wants it used the next day. Which is kind of dangerous without knowing the night results. I agree that it's mostly a nuisance, but I don't think it's a huge concern at the moment, though if our numbers get smaller it could save or kill town.

Not unless we imagine some bizarre scenario where the Scandalmonger and the Seer or Little Girl are Lovers** that communicate at night.

I don't know how that would work, or even how the Little Girl role could be implemented in a forum game. In fact, I don't even see how it works in a live game.
One player is allowed to peek and know who all of the wolves are? If she's successful, and reports all of the names the next day, isn't it game over?

[Votanic]

The weirdness of the Scandalmonger role continues to gnaw at me.
It should be gnawing at everyone, even the wolves, since it is almost certainly a town role.

If I understand the game mechanics correctly, I don't see any way for the Scandalmonger to be a wolf.
I don't much like it, but I don't see that there's anything we can do about it other than to say knock it off unless town wants it used the next day. Which is kind of dangerous without knowing the night results. I agree that it's mostly a nuisance, but I don't think it's a huge concern at the moment, though if our numbers get smaller it could save or kill town.

Not unless we imagine some bizarre scenario where the Scandalmonger and the Seer or Little Girl are Lovers** that communicate at night.

I don't know how that would work, or even how the Little Girl role could be implemented in a forum game. In fact, I don't even see how it works in a live game.
One player is allowed to peek and know who all of the wolves are? If she's successful, and reports all of the names the next day, isn't it game over?

The 'Little Girl' would have to be modified to be a Mafia game role... and it is also doubtful that there would be two secret detection roles, as well as the Confessor role.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I can see one other investigative role given the player count and that confessor is relatively weak.

[swang918]

And I don't think you guys will currently listen to me if I tried to persuade you not to follow Vots plan.
Nevertheless I will put one to you anyway.
a. Vote Pix today to rid me of my immunity.
b. Perhaps if Pix turns up WW keep your powers for another night/or not if I still top your suspicions. (but you won't have the time to coordinate)

Right now I still advocate Pix as a better vote than Max.

This is actually really weirdly suspicious.
LC, why in the world are you trying to lose your immunity??
If you are town, your immunity is wonderful. I don't think the wolves would have any way to directly kill you.
That might greatly help Town to victory late in the game.

My undertanding was you was trying to vote for unlikely lynch candidates to maintain your immunity.
I don't know if Pixar is a wolf or not, but at the moment, that is beside the point.

This plan of yours almost sounds like a wolf trying to get a Townie killed before he is exposed tomorrow as a wolf...
I'm not going to jump to that conclusion, but explain more about why you think losing your immunity is a good thing?

Right, the immunity goes both ways and a confirmed Loose would be great for town.

An uncharitable interpretation of Loose's offer would be a wolf trying to avoid getting investigated by the seer per votanics plan, by purposely losing the immunity which is the whole reason for us pushing him as a seer target.

[Loose Canon]

I get the worry that I am WW and have vote immunity.
What I don't get is why immunity is valuable if/when I flip town.
The wolves can eat me any time vote immunity or not.
I've been thinking of sabotaging my immunity rather than spend powers on it being investigated.

[Votanic]

I get the worry that I am WW and have vote immunity.
What I don't get is why immunity is valuable if/when I flip town.
The wolves can eat me any time vote immunity or not.
I've been thinking of sabotaging my immunity rather than spend powers on it being investigated.

No, that is not true.
The wolves cannot eat you because of your immunity... and in all likelihood their night-kills are the only way Wolves can kill in this game.
Being a wolf-proof Townie is awesome, so you should cooperate with us to try to prove that.

You know, if you really do want to lose your immunity, you can do that anytime by just changing your vote.
I'm not recommending you do that (unless you're a wolf...) but that is an option available to you.

So if you're town, just relax and let the seer do his investigation. No worries.
...but if you're a wolf, you've got a hot date with the business end of Swang's razor...

[SoN!c]

The 'Little Girl' would have to be modified to be a Mafia game role... and it is also doubtful that there would be two secret detection roles, as well as the Confessor role.

This is exactly what i said before. But all i got for saying they could be the same in this game was another "bad player" speeding ticket..

Also im pretty sure who the scandalmonger is. And no, for the third time it's not me. I even said this on D2 before EW's confession "if Vot doesn't believe me he can take me to confession". But yes, the scandalmonger is a town role so no worries there.

And Loose is not correct thinking the wolves can eat him any time vote immunity or not. (Unless he got that info directly from the mod when handed out the role). The rulebook is clear about it : immunity from town and wolves alike (but this immunity is relative since he is not immune to any power).

"The werewolves can't devour him" p.18 of the rulebook, left buttom corner.

[Ragian]

Interesting. If LC is immune to wolves, too, then having him vetted as town is quite nice. Would've been nice to have that confession still, but alas.

@Defa, yeah. I have an inkling. Nothing more. I voiced it to hear your take on it. I guess you don't get any odd vibes from DDS.

Also just realised that the deadline is in three days. Getting a claim from Max can't hurt. It would be nice, though, if he claimed pronto.

[SoN!c]

Interesting. If LC is immune to wolves, too, then having him vetted as town is quite nice. Would've been nice to have that confession still, but alas.

@Defa, yeah. I have an inkling. Nothing more. I voiced it to hear your take on it. I guess you don't get any odd vibes from DDS.

Also just realised that the deadline is in three days. Getting a claim from Max can't hurt. It would be nice, though, if he claimed pronto.

Max never went L-2 (6 votes is the max he got with Deve unvoting). 9 needed to lynch. So 1 more vote is needed to make him claim and yes deadline is approaching.

[Maxleod]

Interesting. If LC is immune to wolves, too, then having him vetted as town is quite nice. Would've been nice to have that confession still, but alas.

@Defa, yeah. I have an inkling. Nothing more. I voiced it to hear your take on it. I guess you don't get any odd vibes from DDS.

Also just realised that the deadline is in three days. Getting a claim from Max can't hurt. It would be nice, though, if he claimed pronto.

I really don't want to claim. Again, knowledge is power; the less the Wolves know the better.

[Ragian]

I agree that knowledge is power, but it goes both ways. On the one hand, we shouldn't offer wolves unwarranted information like breadcrumbing one's role or other dumb stuff. On the other hand, however, when the village joins up (whether there are wolves voting or not), everyone should heed the consensus of the village. If the village, by voting, asks you to claim, you should claim despite your belief that it is bad for town. Only you know what your hidden role is. We don't. And right now, the village is asking for that information based on your play. Rejecting that demand looks scummy.

[Loose Canon]

ok - my bad - I don't know how or why I read past the bit that said the wolves can't devour me but i did.
I need to seriously reassess my play before I do anything else - because I was having all ideas which probably won't be so good on reflection.
I'm going to lay low and just read and hopefully think more clearly until at least beginning of D3 now when Vots plan will have played out and I can hopefully play with a clearer head.
Not that I'm drunk - made a rule not to drink my own profits - or whats left of them after Devante has settled with me!

[Ragian]

Wait...because you read something wrong, you won't contribute the rest of D2?

[Loose Canon]

It's not an absolute won't but I do think it's best I sit back before suggesting any more new plans or plan improvements. I thought vots plan was pretty good remember. So not going to try to improve on that for now.

[Ragian]

Do you think we shouldn't make Max claim?

[degaston]

@Defa, yeah. I have an inkling. Nothing more. I voiced it to hear your take on it. I guess you don't get any odd vibes from DDS.

Not too much. I'd agree that his Sonic vote was baseless... if not for the fact that they'd played together before. Then it's completely understandable.
I liked that he jumped on Max quickly for the idea of having Swang vig LC with no investigation. Though if either of them turns out to be scum, that could change how it looks.

As for Max, it appears he has 6 votes now with Devante unvoting and Thor making a valid vote. No one should want to reveal their role, but someone always has to. If someone wants to make a case for a better target, then they should do it now. Otherwise, we should get him to claim soon so that there's time to discuss what he says and choose a lynch.

[SoN!c]

I'd agree that his Sonic vote was baseless... if not for the fact that they'd played together before..

Oki, oki, i get it, im getting pounded for what i did in a previous game life.. Karma is a deg..



Switching to Deg Mode now

[*Pixar*]

Vote Max

Maybe one more vote will get him moving. I agree not wanting to claim looks scummy as hell.

[Votanic]

I'd agree that his Sonic vote was baseless... if not for the fact that they'd played together before..

Oki, oki, i get it, im getting pounded for what i did in a previous game life.. Karma is a deg..

Switching to Deg Mode now

No Dega, I strongly disagree. Sonic is playing shitastically this game too.
At this point there is no excuse. He either is cognitively unable to change, or else he just enjoys amusing himself by screwing things up...

Btw, I am NOT on a personal vendetta against Sonic... or Max... or EW. I could care less, except this is a game that we should be trying to win.
I know ...and you should know that bad townies can easily cause more damage to Town than actual scum.

Yes, Town does not know if Sonic or Max is town or scum.
The only reason we know EW is town is because I Confessed him... and I only chose him because I thought he had a rep that wouldn't allow him to play the way he did on Day 1 (...& 2) if he was Town... Now I/we know better.

If town needs to semi-randomly lynch players, them bad players are the way to go. Both because of the damage they do to Town, regardless of alignment, and also because of the 'Meta' reason that if CC Mafia games allow bad 'anti-Town; players to persist, then pretty soon Scum will win every game.

Want to hear a a scary worst case scenario: Max (or Sonic) is Town and he has a necessary power role, like Seer or something.
That is the equivalent of 'bad dice' or 'a bad hand'. Town will be at a huge disadvantage... but that' is the way the game goes sometimes.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again,
In Mafia, if you are Town, you play Town 100%. If you are Scum, you play Town 99.9%.
There is actually no room for obviously scummy behavior in this game.

[Devante]

It is odd he hasn't posted to defend himself yet. We hold off on any more voting for now right?

[SoN!c]

I'd agree that his Sonic vote was baseless... if not for the fact that they'd played together before..

Oki, oki, i get it, im getting pounded for what i did in a previous game life.. Karma is a deg..

Switching to Deg Mode now

No Dega, I strongly disagree. Sonic is playing shitastically this game too.
At this point there is no excuse. He either is cognitively unable to change, or else he just enjoys amusing himself by screwing things up...

Btw, I am NOT on a personal vendetta against Sonic... or Max... or EW. I could care less, except this is a game that we should be trying to win.
I know ...and you should know that bad townies can easily cause more damage to Town than actual scum.

Yes, Town does not know if Sonic or Max is town or scum.
The only reason we know EW is town is because I Confessed him... and I only chose him because I thought he had a rep that wouldn't allow him to play the way he did on Day 1 (...& 2) if he was Town... Now I/we know better.

If town needs to semi-randomly lynch players, them bad players are the way to go. Both because of the damage they do to Town, regardless of alignment, and also because of the 'Meta' reason that if CC Mafia games allow bad 'anti-Town; players to persist, then pretty soon Scum will win every game.

Want to hear a a scary worst case scenario: Max (or Sonic) is Town and he has a necessary power role, like Seer or something.
That is the equivalent of 'bad dice' or 'a bad hand'. Town will be at a huge disadvantage... but that' is the way the game goes sometimes.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again,
In Mafia, if you are Town, you play Town 100%. If you are Scum, you play Town 99.9%.
There is actually no room for obviously scummy behavior in this game.

Nobody likes your Poked Salat Anne playstyle Vot. And now this? Everybody who deviates even 1% from your "grand meg plan" gets a speeding ticket.. i fully understand Charle to "probe out" any backing to vig you. Keep handing out tickets and keep eeting Poke salat Tonic

[SoN!c]

Jajajaaa!

[SoN!c]

It is odd he hasn't posted to defend himself yet. We hold off on any more voting for now right?

Ask EW or Ragian. EW is the only "confirmed" townie (as good as "confirmed" goes). Deg or Fusi, even DDD on a good day, would be good advice too..