Biden & Harris cause Crisis at the US-Mexico Border

[jusplay4fun]

update:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-leaning-into-global-diplomacy-to-manage-migration-at-us-mexico-border

[jusplay4fun]

update:

The U.S. Supreme Court handed President Biden's administration a victory in a long-running fight about how to enforce the nation's immigration laws.

The case concerned the Biden administration's attempt to set guidelines for whom immigration authorities can target for arrest and deportation. Texas and Louisiana sued to block the guidelines, arguing that they were preventing immigration authorities from doing their jobs.

The Supreme Court held by a vote of 8-1 that the states lacked standing to challenge the guidelines in the first place.

Writing for the majority, Justice Brett Kavanaugh described the legal challenge before the court as "an extraordinarily unusual lawsuit."

The states challenging the guidelines "want a federal court to order the Executive Branch to alter its arrest policies so as to make more arrests," Kavanaugh wrote. "Federal courts have not traditionally entertained that kind of lawsuit; indeed, the States cite no precedent for a lawsuit like this."

Kavanaugh and Chief Justice John Roberts joined with the court's liberals in the majority opinion. Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch each wrote separate, concurring opinions that reached the same conclusion, but offered a different legal rationale. Only Justice Samuel Alito dissented, arguing that Texas and Louisiana had met the requirements for standing and should have been allowed to sue.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/23/1182015382/supreme-court-ruling-immigration

[jimboston]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

[bigtoughralf]

It's not him sharing the news that makes him invaluable, it's the commentary and analysis he adds.

[jimboston]

It's not him sharing the news that makes him invaluable, it's the commentary and analysis he adds.

[jusplay4fun]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

It's It;s offered for discussion, Sgt. Oblivious, not for you to get news and/or place insults. You;re a Moron; that;s obvious.

[jimboston]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

It's It;s offered for discussion, Sgt. Oblivious, not for you to get news and/or place insults. You;re a Moron; that;s obvious.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5yo.

Arguing with 5yo:
Adult… “You are being disrespectful.”
5yo… “No. You are disrespectful.”

Arguing with JP4:
Jim… “You’re so oblivious… I’m gonna call you Capt. Oblivious from now on.”
JP4…”No, you’re oblivious… I’m gonna call you Sgt. Oblivious.”

His next point will be that he called me Sgt. not Capt., so it’s clearly not copying me.

[jusplay4fun]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

It's It;s offered for discussion, Sgt. Oblivious, not for you to get news and/or place insults. You;re a Moron; that;s obvious.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5yo.

Arguing with 5yo:
Adult… “You are being disrespectful.”
5yo… “No. You are disrespectful.”

Arguing with JP4:
Jim… “You’re so oblivious… I’m gonna call you Capt. Oblivious from now on.”
JP4…”No, you’re oblivious… I’m gonna call you Sgt. Oblivious.”

His next point will be that he called me Sgt. not Capt., so it’s clearly not copying me.

No, you are still a Moron. You are likely a lunatic, too, based on your recent posts. I think the alcoholic diagnosis has much merit.

DDS said it well:

JB - Goes between the realms of logic to lunacy to logic again. Probably an alcoholic.

[jusplay4fun]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

It's It;s offered for discussion, Sgt. Oblivious, not for you to get news and/or place insults. You;re a Moron; that;s obvious.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5yo.

Arguing with 5yo:
Adult… “You are being disrespectful.”
5yo… “No. You are disrespectful.”

Arguing with JP4:
Jim… “You’re so oblivious… I’m gonna call you Capt. Oblivious from now on.”
JP4…”No, you’re oblivious… I’m gonna call you Sgt. Oblivious.”

His next point will be that he called me Sgt. not Capt., so it’s clearly not copying me.

No, you are still a Moron. You are likely a lunatic, too, based on your recent posts. I think the alcoholic diagnosis has much merit.

DDS said it well:

JB - Goes between the realms of logic to lunacy to logic again. Probably an alcoholic.

[jimboston]

Did he think his comments were so insightful that they needed to be repeated?

[jusplay4fun]

Thank God we have JP4 here… I couldn;t get this type of ground breaking news anywhere else.

It's It;s offered for discussion, Sgt. Oblivious, not for you to get news and/or place insults. You;re a Moron; that;s obvious.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5yo.

Arguing with 5yo:
Adult… “You are being disrespectful.”
5yo… “No. You are disrespectful.”

Arguing with JP4:
Jim… “You’re so oblivious… I’m gonna call you Capt. Oblivious from now on.”
JP4…”No, you’re oblivious… I’m gonna call you Sgt. Oblivious.”

His next point will be that he called me Sgt. not Capt., so it’s clearly not copying me.

No, you are still a Moron. You are likely a lunatic, too, based on your recent posts. I think the alcoholic diagnosis has much merit.

DDS said it well:

JB - Goes between the realms of logic to lunacy to logic again. Probably an alcoholic.

Yes, they are insightful, and perspicacious, too.

[jusplay4fun]

To me, one of the interesting aspects about all this is the flow of illegal and undocumented aliens into the US has slowed, since the end of Title 42 and the new policies of Biden have been implemented.

Of course, some will argue that the large surge caused by Biden early in his Presidency will make any such decline look significant. The same can be argued about Biden's "debt reductions."

[Dukasaur]

To me, one of the interesting aspects about all this is the flow of illegal and undocumented aliens into the US has slowed, since the end of Title 42 and the new policies of Biden have been implemented.

Of course, some will argue that the large surge caused by Biden early in his Presidency will make any such decline look significant. The same can be argued about Biden's "debt reductions."

Get it straight. The surge was not caused by Biden. The surge was caused by the mistaken idea that Biden was a decent man who would abide by international law and treat refugees decently. Now we know he will play games to deny refugees their rights under international law just like his last ten or twelve predecessors, and actually has invented an even more devious game straight out of the Stalinist playbook.

[jimboston]

To me, one of the interesting aspects about all this is the flow of illegal and undocumented aliens into the US has slowed, since the end of Title 42 and the new policies of Biden have been implemented.

Of course, some will argue that the large surge caused by Biden early in his Presidency will make any such decline look significant. The same can be argued about Biden's "debt reductions."

Get it straight. The surge was not caused by Biden. The surge was caused by the mistaken idea that Biden was a decent man who would abide by international law and treat refugees decently. Now we know he will play games to deny refugees their rights under international law just like his last ten or twelve predecessors, and actually has invented an even more devious game straight out of the Stalinist playbook.

The United States has more immigrants than any other country on the face of the planet Earth.

We have more than three times the next closest country (Germany).(Circa 2020)

(I am sure if you look you can find stats that break it down by immigrant/per capita… and we may not be more than 3 times our next closest country but we will still be high on the list.)

Given this FACT why are we under obligation to accept more immigrants?

You say “International Law”… there is NO SUCH THING. There are international treaties which can be ended or broken by either (any) party at any time. I don’t believe on the concept of “International Law”.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Canada has only 8million compared to the 50million in the US.
Maybe you guys want them?

[Dukasaur]

To me, one of the interesting aspects about all this is the flow of illegal and undocumented aliens into the US has slowed, since the end of Title 42 and the new policies of Biden have been implemented.

Of course, some will argue that the large surge caused by Biden early in his Presidency will make any such decline look significant. The same can be argued about Biden's "debt reductions."

Get it straight. The surge was not caused by Biden. The surge was caused by the mistaken idea that Biden was a decent man who would abide by international law and treat refugees decently. Now we know he will play games to deny refugees their rights under international law just like his last ten or twelve predecessors, and actually has invented an even more devious game straight out of the Stalinist playbook.

The United States has more immigrants than any other country on the face of the planet Earth.

We have more than three times the next closest country (Germany).(Circa 2020)

(I am sure if you look you can find stats that break it down by immigrant/per capita… and we may not be more than 3 times our next closest country but we will still be high on the list.)

Given this FACT why are we under obligation to accept more immigrants?

Just for a starter: https://www.justice.gov/file/23326/download#:~:text=Article%2033%20of%20the%20Refugee%20Convention,-Article%2033%20of&text=The%20United%20States%20adheres%20to,acceded%20on%20November%201%2C%201968.

The United States adheres to Articles 2 through 34 of the Refugee Convention by virtue of the Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, Jan. 31,
1967, 19 U.S.T. 6223 (“the Protocol”), to which the United States acceded on
November 1, 1968. The official English version of Article 33 provides in part:
No Contracting State shall expel or return (“refouler”) a refugee in any manner whatsoever to the frontiers of territories
where his life or freedom would be threatened on account of
his race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

Legalisms aside, the provision of sanctuary to those who are fleeing from tyrants is a moral obligation older than law, and echoed in thousands of legal, moral, and ethical systems over the millennia.

Canada has only 8million compared to the 50million in the US.
Maybe you guys want them?

I, personally, do. But I don't control the government.

Partly it's an emotional thing. As a refugee myself, I'm emotionally prejudiced in favour of refugees.

Partly it's an economic thing. Immigrants work five times as hard as people born in first world countries. They are like nitrous to the economy!

Most people, unfortunately, are too stupid to see it. They see only the short-term costs of integrating immigrants, and completely forget the vast long-term benefits.

[mookiemcgee]

To me, one of the interesting aspects about all this is the flow of illegal and undocumented aliens into the US has slowed, since the end of Title 42 and the new policies of Biden have been implemented.

Of course, some will argue that the large surge caused by Biden early in his Presidency will make any such decline look significant. The same can be argued about Biden's "debt reductions."

Get it straight. The surge was not caused by Biden. The surge was caused by the mistaken idea that Biden was a decent man who would abide by international law and treat refugees decently. Now we know he will play games to deny refugees their rights under international law just like his last ten or twelve predecessors, and actually has invented an even more devious game straight out of the Stalinist playbook.

The United States has more immigrants than any other country on the face of the planet Earth.

We have more than three times the next closest country (Germany).(Circa 2020)

(I am sure if you look you can find stats that break it down by immigrant/per capita… and we may not be more than 3 times our next closest country but we will still be high on the list.)

Given this FACT why are we under obligation to accept more immigrants?

You say “International Law”… there is NO SUCH THING. There are international treaties which can be ended or broken by either (any) party at any time. I don’t believe on the concept of “International Law”.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Canada has only 8million compared to the 50million in the US.
Maybe you guys want them?

Technically 99.99% of the US population are illegal immigrants because native americans were here and we killed almost all of them, and then became really high and mighty about letting immigrants come here (both legally and illegally).

'worldpopulationreview.com' lol... all it says is 'it's estimated' that there's 52m illegal immigrants in the USA. Doesn't cite a source for this, doubtful you will find a real one doing your own digging.

Pew research suggest the number is around 10-12m.

Statistica pegs it at 11.39m

If only there was a simple rational explanation for why a surge of immigration happened in 2021/22... like if there was some global event in 2020 where everyone was told not to travel for their own health and safety and where US worksites were entirely shutdown making it difficult for illegal laborers to find work. I guess without a simple explanation like that you'd have to blame 'Biden's policies'.

[jusplay4fun]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants, undocumented, to try to get into the USA. Hence, in my mind, Biden CAUSED the Crises at the US-Mexico border.

MOST made it IN, and then MORE came. Until there is a STOP or an effort to curtail this ILLEGAL immigration, it will continue. PERIOD.

I do not know why Biden did what he did as far as this issue in recent months, but this change did cause a notable difference in the trajectories and trends of illegal (or undocumented) immigration across the US-Mexico border.

I encounter immigrants nearly every week, at my Church and at the local food bank (pantry). I see their needs and see their work ethic in effect. I see the workers who replace the roof on my house and who do the physical building houses and doing construction. I have also TAUGHT many children of immigrants. Most were pleasant, respectful, and wanted to learn. Most obey the laws, once they are in this country. The same cannot be said of those born and raised in this nation and for many generations.

We in the USA need immigrants. Most, the vast majority actually, bring their work ethic and their hard work and (at some point) their families and ALL of them make this country BETTER. We cannot have virtually open borders, as Biden's previous policy(s) encouraged.

[mookiemcgee]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants, undocumented, to try to get into the USA. Hence, in my mind, Biden CAUSED the Crises at the US-Mexico border.

Or.... Pandemic closures ended and work places re-opened.

Probably Biden's words though, I'm sure all these broke ass people living in the ghettos of Guatemala with no power were watching white house press briefings on their iphones.

[jusplay4fun]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants, undocumented, to try to get into the USA. Hence, in my mind, Biden CAUSED the Crises at the US-Mexico border.

Or.... Pandemic closures ended and work places re-opened.

Probably Biden's words though, I'm sure all these broke ass people living in the ghettos of Guatemala with no power were watching white house press briefings on their iphones.

If not via that method, I am sure old-fashioned word-of-mouth STILL works FINE. Communication was not the issue here; it was Policy and INTERPRETATION of Biden's policies. I heard immigrants say so, via translators. Biden made immigration into the USA more available, more easy, and more likely. And I am sure the coyotes (those who smuggle people into the USA) spread the same message by fliers, and other low tech methods.

[mookiemcgee]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants, undocumented, to try to get into the USA. Hence, in my mind, Biden CAUSED the Crises at the US-Mexico border.

Or.... Pandemic closures ended and work places re-opened.

Probably Biden's words though, I'm sure all these broke ass people living in the ghettos of Guatemala with no power were watching white house press briefings on their iphones.

If not via that method, I am sure old-fashioned word-of-mouth STILL works FINE. Communication was not the issue here; it was Policy and INTERPRETATION of Biden's policies. I heard immigrants say so, via translators. Biden made immigration into the USA more available, more easy, and more likely. And I am sure the coyotes (those who smuggle people into the USA) spread the same message by fliers, and other low tech methods.

I didn't know you spoke Spanish

[jimboston]

Legalisms aside…

Right… because “International Law” only is valid if it can be enforced and countries have an obligation to their citizens to end treaties that don’t work.

Note… I’m NOT arguing that immigration is bad. I’m arguing against the idea that we (The USA) are OBLIGATED to take all these undocumented claiming sanctuary.

the provision of sanctuary to those who are fleeing from tyrants is a moral obligation older than law, and echoed in thousands of legal, moral, and ethical systems over the millennia.

I understand the “moral obligation” argument… and as a man raised with Christian Ethics I agree with this argument for the most part. The questions come up in a few ways…
*Is there a number or time when “it’s just too much”? Is there ever a situation where a country could reasonably say “we have too many of our own problems and can’t help anymore?”
*Is there a rate of flow that’s “too high”? Is it not reasonable to sometime say… “Hey we can only handle X people/month… but we have 2X people/month showing up. We just can’t safely and properly handle the influx at this rate.”
*What “qualifies” for entrance as a refugee? Many liberals argue that “extreme poverty” alone is enough… you talk about “fleeing tyrants”… who defines these “rules”? If someone just dislikes their level of freedom or their form of government, yet they were able to work and eat…would that count? Is just “feeling unsafe” in your home country enough?

I agree that people have immigrated and people have run from dangerous situations for millennia. I agree that often these people were accepted with open arms. I also know that often they were not and they were often denied entry; or only allowed entry under specific conditions. History goes both ways.

Partly it's an emotional thing. As a refugee myself, I'm emotionally prejudiced in favour of refugees.

Fair and honest.

Partly it's an economic thing. Immigrants work five times as hard as people born in first world countries. They are like nitrous to the economy!

Can you provide evidence to support and quantify that “five times as hard” assumption?

Seriously though… I will concede that from my anecdotal experience I believe immigrants are hard workers, and often work harder than many Americans. I will NOT concede to the “five times as hard” assumption… nor will I agree that this is an absolute. That said, I think we can agree that smart immigration can and does provide a major benefit to my country and yours.

This though is tied in with the “flow” point mentioned earlier… because they can only add value if they;
*are able to find jobs
*get support
*get to places where they can be part of a community and where their labor is needed

None of this can happen if they are flowing in too fast to process.

Most people, unfortunately, are too stupid to see it. They see only the short-term costs of integrating immigrants, and completely forget the vast long-term benefits.

How about you revise this sentence to say “many” people are to stupid to see it… not “most” people.

Most people I talk to who are afraid of the large flow of immigrants over our Southern Border are NOT racist or “anti-Immigrant”. They are concerned with the flow and our inability to process and document these people, they are concerned with illegal immigration and undocumented aliens, they are concerned about the total volume of immigrants we are seeing.

These are not bad people. Maybe they get bad info, but their concerns are often legitimate. Just saying we have an “obligation” doesn’t help.

[jimboston]

Technically 99.99% of the US population are illegal immigrants because native americans were here and we killed almost all of them, and then became really high and mighty about letting immigrants come here (both legally and illegally).

I mean this is just a dumb point.

1) You can’t change the past.

2) Most “Native Americans” would also be “illegal aliens” by this logic. The natives fought each other mercilessly for millennia. They undoubtedly conquered other ‘native’ tribes, wiped out other ‘native’ populations and took their land, moved into areas occupied by other ‘native’ nations.

The whole idea of “indigenous people” is a very “Euro-Centric” idea… we’ve decided that the people who are “indigenous” are those who happened to be occupying a piece of land at the time that the first Europeans came along. We give zero consideration to the people who were occupying that land 30, 50, 100+ years before; who were massacred by the “indigenous people” us Europeans “found” in that land when we came knocking.

“People” have been kicking “other people” off land since before our ape ancestors came down from the trees. There are very few people occupying any piece of land whose ancestors were “the absolute first” people to find that piece of land. This is true now and it is also true when the Mayflower landed in Plymouth, and it was also true when Columbus landed in Cuba, and it was true when the Vikings set up a camp in Newfoundland.

If only there was a simple rational explanation for why a surge of immigration happened in 2021/22... like if there was some global event in 2020 where everyone was told not to travel for their own health and safety and where US worksites were entirely shutdown making it difficult for illegal laborers to find work. I guess without a simple explanation like that you'd have to blame 'Biden's policies'.

I’m sure there are many reason why there has been a surge and Covid is likely a major one.

I never blamed “Biden’s Policies”. I think the immigration issue is bigger than Biden or Trump and requires cooperation from both sides to “solve”. It might even be so big a ‘problem’ that the US Gov’t can’t really “solve” it. Regardless, if we even want a chance to find a good answer it requires cooperation; cooperation that is unlikely to happen. So the problem will fester.

[jusplay4fun]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants, undocumented, to try to get into the USA. Hence, in my mind, Biden CAUSED the Crises at the US-Mexico border.

Or.... Pandemic closures ended and work places re-opened.

Probably Biden's words though, I'm sure all these broke ass people living in the ghettos of Guatemala with no power were watching white house press briefings on their iphones.

If not via that method, I am sure old-fashioned word-of-mouth STILL works FINE. Communication was not the issue here; it was Policy and INTERPRETATION of Biden's policies. I heard immigrants say so, via translators. Biden made immigration into the USA more available, more easy, and more likely. And I am sure the coyotes (those who smuggle people into the USA) spread the same message by fliers, and other low tech methods.

I didn't know you spoke Spanish

Hablo un poquito espanol.

[Dukasaur]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants.

Which words? Please indicate exactly which words you think encouraged people to immigrate.

[bigtoughralf]

It was Biden's words and actions at the very start of his Administration that ENCOURAGED immigrants.

Which words? Please indicate exactly which words you think encouraged people to immigrate.

He only needed one: