[CL14] Clan League - Winners: 1st TOFU, 2nd LION, 3rd FOED

[queen victorious]

It seems the issues are generally cleared up a bit here, but I want to be on the record saying that Groovy is awesome and that we are lucky she is able and willing to devote time to this tournament!!

absolutely...what he ^ said! groovy does more than almost anyone on here, and she does it efficiently, accurately, politely,
and doesn't even curse. well...hardly ever.

[Doc_Brown]

I'll chime in as well to encourage Groovy to stay on. You're doing a great job. I certainly don't see any issues with you as an assistant TO at a minimum.

[Keefie]

Groovy will do a cracking job as TO.

[iAmCaffeine]

we know that already from caff rush (and plenty other things)

[Lindax]

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

For the record: This was an objective statement. Not a complaint, not an opinion, not in any way shape or form, a positive or negative comment on Groovy.

But hey, I'm bored this afternoon, let's have a bit closer look at the issue at hand.

Not too long ago we had a poll in CAT about accepting Groovy as a CD, because that would mean that in a team of 3 CDs, 2 of them would be of the same clan. Something which was always prohibited by admin. As a matter of fact, I have pushed for going against that rule various times when I was a CD, but we had a bigger team and the roles for the different CDs were clearly defined. The result of the poll was a negative. So, when Groovy appeared as an Assistant TO in an official Clan department tournament or event, people reacted. Especially after she posted this:

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.

Which is a bit weird in itself, because why have a rule and not issue infractions if the rule is broken? But that's another issue.

Anyway, reactions:

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

First of all, your doing a great job Groovy, best I have seen in a long time with event, including myself. But I am not sure I agree with that, I remember that CL and CC Cup were the only 2 official CD events and needed to be run by the CD department. Maybe that has changed now.

These posts made me post my statement.

There's more though:

someone make a new thread and i'll happily disclose how and why we voted the way we did

Wow, never thought I would quote Caff....

i dont think people rly have an issue with you being assistant TO. hell i dont rly care if two people from the same clan are both CDs. to me it's more about who those actual people are and personally, i don't think you'd offer a difference of opinion to JP and even if you did, it wouldn't get anywhere.

Did it again....

All of this could make people think that JP wants Groovy in the CD Team, however, the poll didn't work out, so now we just sneak here in as an assistant TO in an official Clan Department tournament or event.

Here are some remarks kind of addressing that:

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

Relying on my memory, which is dangerous at my age, I think it was a necessity, or a rule, to have official Clan Tournaments run by CDs. Also, if you don't need to ask the CDs to edit in infractions/extensions, does that mean you don't need to verify if they are condoned by the CD Team?

Now, here's an important one:

To clear some things up.

CL and CCup are Major Events Sponsored by the CD Team.
The CD Team is responsible for organizing and running the tournament.
Any and all decisions that have or will be made come from me/CD Team.
groovysmurf is the Assistant TO, she may be the one you hear from most often in posts/reminders, but ultimately she does not make decisions.

The first 2 sentences say it all: Nobody but CDs should organize and run a Major Clan Event, such as CL and CCup. At least it's in black and white that she ultimately does not make decisions.

If anybody is waiting for my opinion as an ex-CD and current member of Team CC, here we go: I think Groovy does a great job on many fronts, but to have her as an Assistant TO on an official Clan Department tournament is against the spirit of the rules and against the spirit of the CAT vote. My "professional opinion" and nothing personal to any CDs or Groovy.

A few more remarks:

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

Not much different than when you ran clan tournaments I'm sure, you hardly cared for the opinion of other CDs when doing stuff. So one rep from one clan had all the power. And before you deny it, I've read the CD forums... The CWC topic sure was interesting...

Very different. I was asked to come in and revamp and run clan tournaments. I could not do that by listening to the opinion of every Tom, Dick and Harry, or even CDs, to achieve that goal. Obviously, I could not do it on my own either, so yes, some of the input was taken into consideration, but a lot was not. I did have that authority at the time. And I think I achieved the goal I was asked for. I couldn't be worried about treading on people's toes at the time though.

Going out on a limb here now, don't take it personal JP. Well, maybe you should, because we did get quite personal back then:

JP has never had time, I am sure Scott can confirm that for you. It was taking a week to get a reply to simple questions from him when I was a CD. Often times he would shoot down ideas as well without any solution after the rest of the team agreed to stuff, again that was after a week or two of asking him to look at things. Easily the worst boss I have ever worked for.

Guy should never have been Head CD because he clearly has no time for the job. There are perfectly qualified people, with experience, willing to take the role who would do a way better job.

At least Groovy would have been able to get stuff actually done despite JP's inaction.

Without getting into any detail, I simply have to agree with this, although I never was a CD when he was team leader.

Lx

[Mad777]

groovy, don’t get attracted into some of those posts, you will be fine wearing this additional hat. I know this for a fact and you have my full support.

That’s one of the reason I will never ever stick myself into Clans World as a Mods, still today I have no freaking clue why there is so much politics into this part of the site. After all it is still a game!!!! Yes a game and for fun! No money at stake for winners, nothing but having fun and for some your Clan name in the Hall of Fame. So tell me why who cares about who is doing what in terms of organization?
As always I’m seeing the same complainers and members commenting negatively but surely don’t recall seeing them wearing a CC Mods hat ever. Therefore how are you weighing what kind of work it takes to do stuff? I have been running CC department as a Mods by myself for years, and now I even have 2 of those and it is a piece of work that doesn’t necessarily transpire to a Forum posting, this may not be visible by the public audience.

Every single year before a Clan major tournament there is the same drama over and over, but for what??? A game folks, simply a game. Why there is concern about decision making but for the most part all current listed Clans should be well aware of what the rules are and what sanction to be if there is infraction? As Clan leaders YOU should be the one that prevent action needing decision making from an infraction, those are the same since more than a decade!!! People from the same Clan working to maintain gaming for you all should start by giving them respect for their time spent into this site.

Gosh, I have no idea why this Clan world is so hardly on the Mods team, by running Tournament, Community & Tribes events & tournaments, I’m lucky than I don’t have to face such a hardly audience, I would have surrender my hat for sure.

Mad

[iAmCaffeine]

So tell me why who cares about who is doing what in terms of organization?

is this a serious question lol

for starters, the clan scene includes more competitive and dedicated people than pretty much the entire rest of the site. in terms of the players. it is a game but the competitions are generally regarded as serious. people are here to compete, after all. statistically, the site has been slowly dying for a long time. however for a lot of that, the clan scene was not dropping numbers as quickly. that is no longer the case, so action needs to be taken, and there are literally two CDs, so obviously we're gonna talk about how the future of the CD team looks.

furthermore, there are many, many people here that would've quit the site a long time ago if it wasn't for clans. therefore there's a lot of responsibility associated with being part of the CD team, because the work they do plays a large part in keeping around some of the best active and dedicated players. it therefore makes sense those players also want to see a strong, productive team. and they want to know what's going on.

like i said before, everyone in clans wants what is best for clans.

is it really an issue to have discussions like this? should we not ask questions when things out of the ordinary happen? is understanding not a good thing?

As always I’m seeing the same complainers and members commenting negatively but surely don’t recall seeing them wearing a CC Mods hat ever. Therefore how are you weighing what kind of work it takes to do stuff?

1. people have similar experience on other websites, organisations, businesses, games or whatever
2. there are plenty of people who've applied to join the team and been turned down, so how do you put the blame on them
3. at least for admin work it is quite obvious how much labour is involved in that
4. thanks to the general transparency of how things work, conversations clans have with CDs, and also the CAT, lots of the processes are fairly well understood
5. there have been very few negative comments anyway?

some really narrow minded posts around here lol

[josko.ri]

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

For the record: This was an objective statement. Not a complaint, not an opinion, not in any way shape or form, a positive or negative comment on Groovy.

But hey, I'm bored this afternoon, let's have a bit closer look at the issue at hand.

Not too long ago we had a poll in CAT about accepting Groovy as a CD, because that would mean that in a team of 3 CDs, 2 of them would be of the same clan. Something which was always prohibited by admin. As a matter of fact, I have pushed for going against that rule various times when I was a CD, but we had a bigger team and the roles for the different CDs were clearly defined. The result of the poll was a negative. So, when Groovy appeared as an Assistant TO in an official Clan department tournament or event, people reacted. Especially after she posted this:

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.

Which is a bit weird in itself, because why have a rule and not issue infractions if the rule is broken? But that's another issue.

Anyway, reactions:

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

First of all, your doing a great job Groovy, best I have seen in a long time with event, including myself. But I am not sure I agree with that, I remember that CL and CC Cup were the only 2 official CD events and needed to be run by the CD department. Maybe that has changed now.

These posts made me post my statement.

There's more though:

someone make a new thread and i'll happily disclose how and why we voted the way we did

Wow, never thought I would quote Caff....

i dont think people rly have an issue with you being assistant TO. hell i dont rly care if two people from the same clan are both CDs. to me it's more about who those actual people are and personally, i don't think you'd offer a difference of opinion to JP and even if you did, it wouldn't get anywhere.

Did it again....

All of this could make people think that JP wants Groovy in the CD Team, however, the poll didn't work out, so now we just sneak here in as an assistant TO in an official Clan Department tournament or event.

Here are some remarks kind of addressing that:

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

Relying on my memory, which is dangerous at my age, I think it was a necessity, or a rule, to have official Clan Tournaments run by CDs. Also, if you don't need to ask the CDs to edit in infractions/extensions, does that mean you don't need to verify if they are condoned by the CD Team?

Now, here's an important one:

To clear some things up.

CL and CCup are Major Events Sponsored by the CD Team.
The CD Team is responsible for organizing and running the tournament.
Any and all decisions that have or will be made come from me/CD Team.
groovysmurf is the Assistant TO, she may be the one you hear from most often in posts/reminders, but ultimately she does not make decisions.

The first 2 sentences say it all: Nobody but CDs should organize and run a Major Clan Event, such as CL and CCup. At least it's in black and white that she ultimately does not make decisions.

If anybody is waiting for my opinion as an ex-CD and current member of Team CC, here we go: I think Groovy does a great job on many fronts, but to have her as an Assistant TO on an official Clan Department tournament is against the spirit of the rules and against the spirit of the CAT vote. My "professional opinion" and nothing personal to any CDs or Groovy.

A few more remarks:

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

Not much different than when you ran clan tournaments I'm sure, you hardly cared for the opinion of other CDs when doing stuff. So one rep from one clan had all the power. And before you deny it, I've read the CD forums... The CWC topic sure was interesting...

Very different. I was asked to come in and revamp and run clan tournaments. I could not do that by listening to the opinion of every Tom, Dick and Harry, or even CDs, to achieve that goal. Obviously, I could not do it on my own either, so yes, some of the input was taken into consideration, but a lot was not. I did have that authority at the time. And I think I achieved the goal I was asked for. I couldn't be worried about treading on people's toes at the time though.

Going out on a limb here now, don't take it personal JP. Well, maybe you should, because we did get quite personal back then:

JP has never had time, I am sure Scott can confirm that for you. It was taking a week to get a reply to simple questions from him when I was a CD. Often times he would shoot down ideas as well without any solution after the rest of the team agreed to stuff, again that was after a week or two of asking him to look at things. Easily the worst boss I have ever worked for.

Guy should never have been Head CD because he clearly has no time for the job. There are perfectly qualified people, with experience, willing to take the role who would do a way better job.

At least Groovy would have been able to get stuff actually done despite JP's inaction.

Without getting into any detail, I simply have to agree with this, although I never was a CD when he was team leader.

Lx

Did I log in to your account? I dont remmeber. Length of your post is josko-like.

we should support people who volunterr for the site in any way. CD department just issued a call for new CDs therefore obviously there are in need for more CDs, not for losing existing CDs.

[groovysmurf]

I appreciate all the support and kind words I received here very much! Thank you!

First of all, the reason for wanting to add me to the CD team in the first place was because JP had so much on his plate in real life. Yes, he kept the lights on as Scott said, usually solo, but he had so many ideas and plans that he simply couldn't accomplish with no team and very little time for CC. I happen to have an abundance of time right now; which is why I thought it would be good to add me. I could handle all the admin/database stuff and he could focus on his clan plaque project that he's been wanting to get out for over a year, among other things. We didn't want to just add me without the community's input, though, as it felt wrong despite us having the permission to do so. When the vote didn't go the way we had hoped, perhaps naively, we were disappointed to say the least.

JP put out the callout for new CDs, though and I continued to help with what I could from behind the curtain. As we were discussing some of the new stuff for this clan league, it occurred to us that since it's a CD "Sponsored" event, that I could actually help him to run it without having to be a CD. I wouldn't be able to do the database work, but at least help with the communication/reminders and make sure everything runs smoothly. We were not in any way trying to "sneak" me in as Lindax said. A "sponsored" event, as it applies to this situation, means the CD team are ultimately responsible and provide the prizes, but work and tasks can be assigned to outside parties. We thought if anyone did have an issue with me being Assistant TO, they would mention their issues when signing up, but no one did, so we thought no one minded, as most people on the site know that I am very good at running tournaments. I do sincerely apologize for the part I played in causing this drama. It was never intended.

Now that JP is stepping aside to allow me to take the Head CD position, things are a bit different. We will continue to run this tournament as co-organizers, even after JP is no longer a CD. If people have issues because we're in the same clan, I'm sorry, but it will in no way affect how we handle things. If A^ breaks a rule, they will receive an infraction, just like any other clan.

[Lindax]

For the record: I did not say that you were trying to sneak in. I said that people could see it that way.

Anyway, congrats on your new "job".

Lx

[Doc_Brown]

If I'm tracking correctly, I think the full rankings in all three leagues are officially decided now (there are still some points to be officially decided but they don't affect the rankings). Great wars all around with a lot of close ones! In Premier Division, going into the final round, FALL, TOFU, and S&M could have finished in any order! In Second Division, REP and LION fought for the top spot in round 10. And Third Division had a close battle between GON and FOED in round 9 to determine the winner.

Well fought, all! Good games.

Premier Division

1. TOFU
2. S&M
3. FALL
4. A^
5. LHDD
6. ATL

Second Division

1. LION
2. REP
3. LOW
4. RET
5. DBD
6. AWOL

Third Division

1. FOED
2. GON
3. AFOS
4. KNT
5. RGV

[MTIceman41]

If I'm tracking correctly, I think the full rankings in all three leagues are officially decided now (there are still some points to be officially decided but they don't affect the rankings). Great wars all around with a lot of close ones! In Premier Division, going into the final round, FALL, TOFU, and S&M could have finished in any order! In Second Division, REP and LION fought for the top spot in round 10. And Third Division had a close battle between GON and FOED in round 9 to determine the winner.

Well fought, all! Good games.

Premier Division

1. TOFU
2. S&M
3. FALL
4. A^
5. LHDD
6. ATL

Second Division

1. LION
2. REP
3. LOW
4. RET
5. DBD
6. AWOL

Third Division

1. FOED
2. GON
3. AFOS
4. KNT
5. RGV

I would agree with your analysis…did you win the prediction contest too?

[Fewnix]

Do yoyu or anyonr have a read on how clans have progressed or regressed from CL13, and maybe even before-CL12?CL11??? ? e.g. did Cland who dropped from first divison to second disccion stay thr or make their wy back up? or clans htt started in third divionover time, mkeit ti first??

If I'm tracking correctly, I think the full rankings in all three leagues are officially decided now (there are still some points to
be officially decided but they don't affect the rankings). Great wars all around with a lot of close ones! In Premier Division, going into the final round, FALL, TOFU, and S&M could have finished in any order! In Second Division, REP and LION fought for the top spot in round 10. And Third Division had a close battle between GON and FOED in round 9 to determine the winner.

Well fought, all! Good games.

Premier Division

1. TOFU
2. S&M
3. FALL
4. A^
5. LHDD
6. ATL

Second Division

1. LION
2. REP
3. LOW
4. RET
5. DBD
6. AWOL

Third Division

1. FOED
2. GON
3. AFOS
4. KNT
5. RGV

[Doc_Brown]

I would agree with your analysis…did you win the prediction contest too?

I honestly hadn't even looked at the prediction thread until you posted this and couldn't even remember what I predicted at the time. I'm not planning to go through and compare all the predictions to see where I rank, and the way AWOL is handled will probably determine how results end up. Setting all that aside, it looks like my prediction was pretty close:

Premier Division
TOFU
S&M
A^
FALL
LHDD
ATL

Second Division
LION
REP
AWOL
LOW
RET
DBD

Third Division
FOED
GON
AFOS
RGV
KNT

[Doc_Brown]

Do yoyu or anyonr have a read on how clans have progressed or regressed from CL13, and maybe even before-CL12?CL11??? ? e.g. did Cland who dropped from first divison to second disccion stay thr or make their wy back up? or clans htt started in third divionover time, mkeit ti first??

It's a bit of a difficult question to answer, as we went from 2 divisions to 3 divisions this time around, and the divisions went from 8 teams to 6. LOW and DBD were in CL13PD. LOW finished in the middle of CL14SD, and DBD finished at the bottom. The clans playing in the bottom division of CL13 that played in the middle division of CL14 were REP, AWOL, and RET. REP finished top two in CL14SD, RET is towards the bottom of CL14SD. AWOL dropped out.

[groovysmurf]

Premier Division

1. TOFU
2. S&M
3. FALL
4. A^
5. LHDD
6. ATL

Second Division

1. LION
2. REP
3. LOW
4. RET
5. DBD
6. AWOL

Third Division

1. FOED
2. GON
3. AFOS
4. KNT
5. RGV

These will be the final orders for Clan League as Doc posted. We just have 1 more game going between A^ and ATL before things can be officially closed down, but it won't affect the order. Cayman is going to be contacting clans regarding the playoff matches for priority order soon.

We'll be needing an MVP from TOFU, LION and FOED shortly as they are all winners of their divisions. Congratulations!
If any of those 3 clans would like us in the clan department to run percentages for their clans, please do let us know asap. Thanks!

[uckuki]

[Caymanmew]

Following the results of CL14 this is the draft of the new priority order for CL15. There will be a few playoff matchups to determine the final order.

TOFU
S&M
FALL
A^
LION
REP
LHDD
ATL
LOW
FOED
GON
RET
DBD
AFOS
KNT
RGV

There will be 4 matchups to be played, REP vs LHDD, ATL vs LOW, GON, vs RET, and DBD vs AFOS.

The matchups will be the same setup as a standard round, which means each clan sends 4 doubles, 4 triples, and 4 quads. There will also be a tiebreaker game (Classic triples: no spoils, chained, sun). whichever clan wins the most games will be given the higher priority spot.

The lower ranked clans are considered the challenger, so in the event they do not wish to play, the order will not change. Should the challenger decide to play, the higher ranked clan has the choice to play for the spot or forfeit and switch spots in the priority order.


I have PM'd all challenger clan contacts to see if they wish to challenge. An update will be made once matchups are set or forfeited.

Please ask any questions should there be confusion.

[queen victorious]

Following the results of CL14 this is the draft of the new priority order for CL15. There will be a few playoff matchups to determine the final order.

TOFU
S&M
FALL
A^
LION
REP
LHDD
ATL
LOW
FOED
GON
RET
DBD
AFOS
KNT
RGV

There will be 4 matchups to be played, REP vs LHDD, ATL vs LOW, GON, vs RET, and DBD vs AFOS.

The matchups will be the same setup as a standard round, which means each clan sends 4 doubles, 4 triples, and 4 quads. There will also be a tiebreaker game (Classic triples: no spoils, chained, sun). whichever clan wins the most games will be given the higher priority spot.

The lower ranked clans are considered the challenger, so in the event they do not wish to play, the order will not change. Should the challenger decide to play, the higher ranked clan has the choice to play for the spot or forfeit and switch spots in the priority order.


I have PM'd all challenger clan contacts to see if they wish to challenge. An update will be made once matchups are set or forfeited.

Please ask any questions should there be confusion.

Any idea when these playoff games will start? Scheduling is hard over the summer with vacations, but i'm concerned that waiting too long to start them
may cause issues delaying the start of CL15. ATL still has one game not yet completed from Round 10 of CL14 vs A^ that started April 23rd.

[Caymanmew]

The schedule will be games made by Aug 2nd, and filled by the 9th. Waiting on confirmation of the last matchup.

LOW challenged ATL, who accepted.
AFOS challenged DBD, who rejected
RET challenged GON, waiting on confirmation
LHDD did not challenge.

Therefore, the priority order looks like the following atm.

TOFU
S&M
FALL
A^
LION
REP
LHDD
ATL
LOW
FOED
GON
RET
AFOS
DBD
KNT
RGV

[Caymanmew]

GON accepted RET's challenge, so as stated above, we have two matchups, LOW vs ATL and GON vs RET.

Each matchup is 25 games total, each clan sends 12 (4 doubles, 4 triples, 4 quads), while one clan (ATL and GON) will also send a tiebreaker game (Classic triples, no spoils, chained, sun)

Rules for maps, settings, and player game limits are the same as CL14. Total map usage has been reset so you can use maps that you had used 4 times during CL14.

Games are to be made by Aug 2nd and fille by Aug 9th. Do not make the games using the CL14 privs, you will get new privs to create the games under.

[groovysmurf]

The last game is finally complete for the regular season and the final standings are listed below. Playoff matches to determine final priority order are still ongoing.


Premier Division
TOFU - 28
S&M - 24
FALL - 23
A^ - 19
LHDD - 15
ATL - 11



Second Division
LION - 25
REP - 24
LOW - 17
RET - 9
DBD - 2
AWOL - Dropped out



Third Division
FOED - 25
GON - 21
AFOS - 13
KNT - 11
RGV - 10

[groovysmurf]

For the playoff matches, LOW won over ATL and RET won over GON.

Tournament Complete. All achievements issued, privs removed and topic moved.

Thanks to all who participated!