Re: [CL14] Clan League - Sign Ups End Sept 25th

[IcePack]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

[JPlo64]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

You correct me, thanks. Under 10, is definitely 1 League.

[IcePack]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

You correct me, thanks. Under 10, is definitely 1 League.

Np, I wasn't even thinking for this year. Just a random thought in review as clans consolidate.

[rockfist]

No S&M is way above any of you, yet if they don’t get into the top division in a three tiered system it is their fault for not performing better in CL. They will annihilate all of you.

Practice? We talking about practice? Congratulations, now beat me when it counts and then come and talk to me. You have a losing record against me on clan W2.1 which you claim is your best map and you are 1-5 in Quads.

Haha that’s the rock we need to see…I could beat you anytime you want a poly match that is…non teammates…let’s go

A Poly match is what I consider practice, but set it up if you like.

[Nut Shot Scott]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

but you can imagine 10? lol

[Nut Shot Scott]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

You correct me, thanks. Under 10, is definitely 1 League.

Np, I wasn't even thinking for this year. Just a random thought in review as clans consolidate.

Yes. Let's plan for when clans have completely dried up instead of working to build them up and maintain.

[IcePack]

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

but you can imagine 10? lol

Just a random number plucked below the mentioned thresholds. Could have been a handful of numbers.

Interestingly as CL gets smaller, eventually might need to address when it just becomes one league. I can’t imagine 8 clans splitting into two leagues.

You correct me, thanks. Under 10, is definitely 1 League.

Np, I wasn't even thinking for this year. Just a random thought in review as clans consolidate.

Yes. Let's plan for when clans have completely dried up instead of working to build them up and maintain.

Not sure what gives you the impression I’m actually doing that. It was a passing thought I had that I mentioned. It wasn’t that serious nor does it mean I don’t think they should be built up etc as you say.

[MTIceman41]

It's kind of funny that the only arrangement that keeps S&M out of 1st division is if we have exactly 15 clans sign up!

Would you be perhaps doc brown but actually doctor strange
Benedict Cumberbatch solid actor

[josko.ri]

I think the cut-off where to make linebetween 2 or 3 divisions is incorrectly selected at 14 clans so that 7-7 becomes into 5-5-5 when 15 clans sign up. Who likes divisions with odd number of clans and then twice clans get bye round and dont play anything for more than a month?

Instead, the cut-off should have been at 16 clans so 2 divisions of 8-8 becomes 6-6-5 in case of 17 clans signs up. Isnt number of clans in each League of 8-8 then 6-6-5 more appealing for singups than if we have 7-7 then 5-5-5? Clans want to play regularly, not to have bye rounds.

[ScaryTeded]

With groovysmurf,
INVOLVED I have no faith in this ..
Sits on hands

Teddy

[Devante]

Just a thought, i'm new but hear me out... Agree or disagree, can we see how many clans sign up maybe first??? before going too far at each other. Got a strong opinion one way personally but it's mute unless the number signed up matter. And that hasn't caused an issue so far, so...

So chillax maybe

[Doc_Brown]

I was looking at the priority order list and had a thought. One of the questions tossed around in previous discussions is how to handle brand new clans or clans that sit out for a year, especially if we have 3 divisions (would a clan that sat out for a year have to wait two years to get back into the top division?). One of the ideas was to have clans that sit out re-enter one division lower, but since we are assigning divisions based on a priority list, that becomes more difficult to determine. My suggestion is that if a clan sat for a year, place them in the priority list immediately below the last place finisher from the division they most recently competed in. Using the example from the CL14 Promotion and Relegation section, a clan that was previously in Premier division, but sat out last year (designated at PX), would end up 9th in the priority list [P1, P2, P3, P4, S1, S2, P5, P6, PX, S3]. If S3 and P6 had previously engaged in a play-off and S3 won, PX would end up in 10th place below both S3 and P6.

For inserting new clans into the priority list (e.g. LIONs), I'm not sure what the best approach is. One suggestion was to insert them automatically into second division, but again, we're working with a priority list. We can use rankings as a metric, but the priority list is not in order of ranking, so it doesn't work especially well. It's further complicated because brand new clans composed of highly experienced players have a tendency to shoot up the rankings before settling back down once their weight gets high enough. I'd suggest placing a brand new clan in the priority list below all clans that have a rating greater than 85% of the new clan's current rating. e.g. LION currently has a rating of 1291, so they would be placed below any clan with a rating of 1098 or higher. That puts them between LOW and RET in the priority list.

[detlef]

I'm new to all of this and, as such, can't speak on the informed level that many others here can. I'll just say that there seems to be enough vehement dissent that y'all should reconsider the change? After all, these are the vocal and passionate members of the community that, I would imagine, you want to have buy in to your deal. I mean, you have guys here who are normally at each other's throats who have found one thing they agree on. That this idea sucks.

I don't know, but that seems worth considering.

[JPlo64]

I was looking at the priority order list and had a thought. One of the questions tossed around in previous discussions is how to handle brand new clans or clans that sit out for a year, especially if we have 3 divisions (would a clan that sat out for a year have to wait two years to get back into the top division?). One of the ideas was to have clans that sit out re-enter one division lower, but since we are assigning divisions based on a priority list, that becomes more difficult to determine. My suggestion is that if a clan sat for a year, place them in the priority list immediately below the last place finisher from the division they most recently competed in. Using the example from the CL14 Promotion and Relegation section, a clan that was previously in Premier division, but sat out last year (designated at PX), would end up 9th in the priority list [P1, P2, P3, P4, S1, S2, P5, P6, PX, S3]. If S3 and P6 had previously engaged in a play-off and S3 won, PX would end up in 10th place below both S3 and P6.

For inserting new clans into the priority list (e.g. LIONs), I'm not sure what the best approach is. One suggestion was to insert them automatically into second division, but again, we're working with a priority list. We can use rankings as a metric, but the priority list is not in order of ranking, so it doesn't work especially well. It's further complicated because brand new clans composed of highly experienced players have a tendency to shoot up the rankings before settling back down once their weight gets high enough. I'd suggest placing a brand new clan in the priority list below all clans that have a rating greater than 85% of the new clan's current rating. e.g. LION currently has a rating of 1291, so they would be placed below any clan with a rating of 1098 or higher. That puts them between LOW and RET in the priority list.

I did put in a rule about inserting clans that did not play in previous year using the D400.

Spoiler

In a 2 division League, New clans, or clans that did not participate in CL13, will be placed in the lowest division. The same is the case for a three division league unless the clan in question's most recent D400 score meets one of the below requirements; in which case the clan in question will begin in the second division. [list][*]If D400 Weight greater than 150, D400 score must be greater than 50% of all other signed up clans. [*]If D400 weight is less than 150, but greater than 50; then Score is adjusted by subtracting the difference between 150 and the clans weight. That adjusted score must be greater than 50% of all other signed up clans.[/list]

This test is simple and I think produces a good result that is based on the participating clans. Also, this is only written for the case of 3 tiers, but it is very easy to generalize to work for 4+ (not saying that's a likely scenario for us, but I like rules that are scalable).

As you state, if using rankings, there needs to be a way to either not allow new clans or adjust for them not having sufficient weight.
Simply making it 150 seems too high, b/c it does take quite a while to accumulate a weight of 150 and I wouldn't want that to be a major deterrent to starting a new clan with aspirations of higher level competition.
50 seems like a more reasonable bottom but with a handicap.
It may be the case that this handicap is not the best possible way. I was considering writing in additional stipulations on the number of results but didn't want to overcomplicate.
I can see an argument for the handicap to be as high as double as we have it here.
(Edit: After some thinking, it might makes more sense to have the handicap be 200-weight to mirror the +/- 200 part of the D400 equation. In the current example, LION would still qualify)

For the case that we currently have (17 signed up clans), LION would qualify to begin in 2nd Division, FOED and AFOS would not.

[Doc_Brown]

Got it. That makes sense. I missed that section in the rules. I think that covers things pretty well.