Bunch of Pussies

[Razorvich]

Greetings Clan World... and welcome to my rant

Not often do I stick my nose into Clan Issues since the infomas [CC4] KORT vs AKA of 2013 debarkle

and NO way is this directed at the Clan Department, you guys are doing good stuff, please keep it up

But I do have a W.T.F. yes in BOLD to discuss.

Preamble here, I know the last few years have been challenging to all with RL issues, myself included.
This year I have only been able to devote the bare minimum of my free time to Clans... so YES I get it
Life sucks sometimes.

That being said, tonight I have sent out the DBD Round 1 games V's AWOL and updated the thread when I notice something weird.

show

O.K. lets look at this.
Lots of "Official Battles".. but what about the old 1V1
I see 2 active Clan Battles, BOTH including my Clan.
WTF you bunch of pussies
And I am looking for another battle before years end.

Considering the limited time I myself have had to devote to Clans .. this is a real shiity situation.

What has happened?
Have you lot all lost your sense of a owning a pair and challenge someone?
Are we all now devoted to the Site run events that we can't have a good old "Fk you lets fight" Battle?
Have you all suddenly grabbed you ball and gone home?
Where is all the Forum Battle Page banter?... NONEXISTANT.. because there are no battles

Bunch of Whimps.

I really hope that 2022 will be the year of the Clan

Koudos to RET and AWOL btw to actually accept a Classic Battle.

Its the rest of you that are pussies.

We will fight anyone.. can you say that about your Clan?

rant over.

[Extreme Ways]

I think you missed A^ vs REP in your list.

[donche64]

Hi Razorvich,

I can only answer regarding LHDD. We definitely aren't against a classic "friendly" war.
But our roster is not that important as several "historic" members have left us recently / are on a break, and luckily enough we've been able to go all the way to CC9 and C11 Finals (while participating to all the recent editions of the Random League, and a large majority of CL). So if we don't want to burn our remaining players out, tough to plan something (and I think you might agree that playing a CC Finals or SemiFinals against TOFU, FALL, S&M etc...requires full focus).
Each time we got eliminated early in CC (CC7 and CC10), we've agreed to battle clans outside of "formal" competitions: PNX, ATL and LOW in 2017; TOP in 2020. We've also refused once to participate to the Clan League to have time for more wars like that (but won't probably do it again, as you have to restart in 2nd Division).

I also remember Donelladan trying to set up a new concept of 4-clan war, with no success (but the idea still seems fun to me).

Anyways, all of that to say that we will keep on being pussy for at least a couple more months, but once we're done with FALL we could try to set up something !

[Razorvich]

I think you missed A^ vs REP in your list.

Koudos to A^ to also progress from the pussie rank as well.

Sorry to miss that, the OP was "Smurfed" so thought it was official

[Swimmerdude99]

But what about REP? I guess we will just have to have an unofficial war to prove it to ya

[Swimmerdude99]

Hi Razorvich,

I can only answer regarding LHDD. We definitely aren't against a classic "friendly" war.
But our roster is not that important as several "historic" members have left us recently / are on a break, and luckily enough we've been able to go all the way to CC9 and C11 Finals (while participating to all the recent editions of the Random League, and a large majority of CL). So if we don't want to burn our remaining players out, tough to plan something (and I think you might agree that playing a CC Finals or SemiFinals against TOFU, FALL, S&M etc...requires full focus).
Each time we got eliminated early in CC (CC7 and CC10), we've agreed to battle clans outside of "formal" competitions: PNX, ATL and LOW in 2017; TOP in 2020. We've also refused once to participate to the Clan League to have time for more wars like that (but won't probably do it again, as you have to restart in 2nd Division).

I also remember Donelladan trying to set up a new concept of 4-clan war, with no success (but the idea still seems fun to me).

Anyways, all of that to say that we will keep on being pussy for at least a couple more months, but once we're done with FALL we could try to set up something !

BTW, now that I have a clan, I would probably be interested in something a bit different myself as well. I'm a bit afraid to step into the multi-team game settings as I fear that could get a wee bit ugly. However perhaps setting something up like a team assassin style play would work. For instance... gentlemans rules are that if you kill the team your team is supposed to target, then the other teams suicide one another and the assassinating team wins? I would assume this could better keep people from going at each other's throats!

[donche64]

BTW, now that I have a clan, I would probably be interested in something a bit different myself as well. I'm a bit afraid to step into the multi-team game settings as I fear that could get a wee bit ugly. However perhaps setting something up like a team assassin style play would work. For instance... gentlemans rules are that if you kill the team your team is supposed to target, then the other teams suicide one another and the assassinating team wins? I would assume this could better keep people from going at each other's throats!

I understand your concerns regarding a multi-team war, and even within our clan people were still to be convinced. I'm an eternal optimist, so I still have hope that with no point at stake for the clan ranking nor official trophy, people could just find this fun enough to try it (and not just to screw someone in the process). Lots of aspect were still to be discussed btw (dubs? trips? boths? random maps or home/away games etc etc...).
Your proposition also is interesting indeed as it makes it logical to target someone (so no hard feelings in the process).
Anyways, will be glad to discuss it with you...in a couple months too !

[niMic]

Veteran clans are filled with veteran players who can just about summon the enthusiasm to play the CCup and possibly the CL. That's my general take.

[IcePack]

Hard to compare different clan times, because "back in the day" there was new members, new rivalries, new maps, new things to be excited about.
With the decline of the site, new clan members are fewer and far between (as we've seen, theres been contraction in the membership of clans / quantity of clans) and consolidation to keep the ones still active around.

When I was in the CD's there was already a lack of wars and what not beyond the main events. So our focus was boosting those wars, and designing new events to keep things interesting and active. Its hard to summon enthusiasm for the same stuff over and over, and while those are important mainstays, theres a lack of other stuff to be excited about. There aren't new maps that clans are incorporating at a high clip like there used to be, so even the existing wars are more repetitive. at least before, you had some challenge of having to field a team on a new map that wasn't played much yet, or a new clan you hadn't faced and didn't have much of a history, etc.

Now its "oh look, ABCD is in the final four again...interesting" and rinse, recycle, repeat. Once in awhile a clan might get lazy, or be in turmoil, or make a unexpected push. But how many active people are even in the forum anymore? How many people are bothering to read clan war threads anymore? Doesn't seem like many. The Clan Button / war thread link is nice and all, but we used to get our updates from the forum threads and it funneled people into the forum to see the latest updates and talk shit. Now, nobody has to look at the forum to see anything so only the very active dozen or two people who are always around are saying much. Theres little reason to bother coming around here (in the forums), so people just dont.

Less interaction, means less focus on what used to excite people and less interaction with the other clans and people around. Less reason to war unless just sheer boredom. And how long is that going to last killing boredom with the same stuff over and over?

[Keefie]

If you want something different, take a look at the old HH/VNM vs TNC/DBD wars.

[itake]

I think you missed A^ vs REP in your list.

Koudos to A^ to also progress from the pussie rank as well.

Sorry to miss that, the OP was "Smurfed" so thought it was official

We are very official pussies.

[willedtowin1]

"What has happened?
Have you lot all lost your sense of a owning a pair and challenge someone?
Are we all now devoted to the Site run events that we can't have a good old "Fk you lets fight" Battle?
Have you all suddenly grabbed you ball and gone home?
Where is all the Forum Battle Page banter?... NONEXISTANT.. because there are no battles"

It is of "My" opinion
This is not a sudden event.
This started long ago when top ranked clans wanted to desperately hold onto their Clan ranking.
Only wanted an opportunity to move up. Didn't want to play lower ranked players to protect there rating ( Coronel, Brig, General) ect. ect. ect.

Only played certain events that where "aka" "Official".
Used the excuse that we can only play so many events, to many people on break, not enough people to
play additional events ( because they preferred using their best players mainly imo). Playing less battles/games
protects from the event of "unnecessary" loses.

It is and was my opinion many years back that if each clan should be required to play other clans in
"Unofficial events" more often, the rating system would reflect a more true champion.

SO,
If each clan was required to play x amount ( lets say 10) of non official battles each year
the system would be a lot more fair rankings wise.
If the clans were more evenly balanced it would spur additional competitiveness and competition

The Clan system has been over manipulated for those that want to desperately hold onto their ranking.
Top ranked clans only have to play a minimum amount of battles to hold rank.
Why are the top teams always ranked where they have been for the last 10-15 years?
The system has been manipulated enough for them to do so.
Obviously if the top teams have a majority of the best players it becomes
a competition for only a small few.

In other words, the Clans have been over manipulated for the top few so why would the lower clans
want to compete if the cant get the challenges? Might be a reason for the major decline in the clan world and this site?
You have had the opportunity to adjust to make it fair for new clans but desperately try to hold onto the few remaining instead.
Its become a "Country Club" for the select few. And not very inviting to new people or clans.
Just look at how the forums allow people to he so rude and offensive. ect ect
The world has dramatically changed. And the site has not adapted very well to the changes.


Again, this is of My opinion.
Food for thought
Willy

Edit:
OSA had a smaller pool of participants than most Clans for most of the years.
Yet they took on any and all no matter of Clan ranking.
Just as an example.
There are others to fit this example too but very few.

[niMic]

SO,
If each clan was required to play x amount ( lets say 10) of non official battles each year
the system would be a lot more fair rankings wise.
If the clans were more evenly balanced it would spur additional competitiveness and competition

You would have killed the clan scene within a year. I can pretty much guarantee you that. Not because anyone is afraid of losing rank, but because people just aren't going to want to play that many clan games. I would have definitely quit CC altogether at that point.

Besides, nobody really cares about rank. If we don't win the Conquer Cup, then I couldn't care less about whether or not we're #1 in an arbitrary ranking system. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the people who have designed and ran these systems, but nobody is going to try to "manipulate" them the way you suggest.

In other words, the Clans have been over manipulated for the top few so why would the lower clans
want to compete if the cant get the challenges? Might be a reason for the major decline in the clan world and this site?

Lol no.

[willedtowin1]

OK
Look at the player pool of the top ranked clans, say top 5.
They have the majority of long term, higher ranked, seasoned vets correct?
Country Club?

" but because people just aren't going to want to play that many clan games."

Maybe the present clans should add to there player pool ( more battles) than expect some unknown
new clans to try to compete, and then fold. As in add more lower ranked players to the party so your
personal game count isn't exceeded. Give them a chance to succeed and learn with you.



"Nobody cares about rank" ya right lol

[IcePack]

Just like OSA I think the true crux of the issue is war organizers. Players play games, and whether it’s high ranked or not they’ll find their comfort zone within the clans.

But war organizers / leaders are in short supply. Very few are the Benga’s of the world that are willing / able and have the time to run that many wars.

So the one or two most clans have basically have year round responsibilities tied to CCup, CL, and RL. Beyond that, either you need a benga, or an extra hand or two.

Even the top clans that have multiple organizers to prevent burnout take turns / spread out the responsibility so their ability to expand theoretically might exist, but practically won’t.

Keep in mind those players are also doing pick up games, private tournaments now, tournaments, auto tournaments, tribes games (and organizers!) not like it was before, where clans was the main source of high level competition and organizer time.

Just like settings / maps. If you have 50 maps and 3 settings, your games will fill fast and be plenty but variety is short. You have 250 maps with a dozen settings and the specialized stuff takes longer to sign up and fill and fewer and farther between. Now add in organization requirements and it’s hard to find the right match, let alone bring new people and clans into a shrinking website. At best it’s treading water

[niMic]

OK
Look at the player pool of the top ranked clans, say top 5.
They have the majority of long term, higher ranked, seasoned vets correct?
Country Club?

I guess I don't get your point. Good players are going to want to group together into good clans, and good clans are going to want to recruit more good players. That's a defining feature of competition. That's not a conspiracy or manipulation, it's just how it is.

Maybe the present clans should add to there player pool ( more battles) than expect some unknown
new clans to try to compete, and then fold. As in add more lower ranked players to the party so your
personal game count isn't exceeded. Give them a chance to succeed and learn with you.

I'm not sure a single S&M player has reached their game limits in the last decade. Maybe Josko? Now you could argue that's because we've hoovered up all the "higher ranked, seasoned vets", but in many cases I bet S&M is the only thing keeping many of them playing. Personally, I could have left CC years ago, but the low but steady number of clan games kept me here.

We also do recruit lower ranked players if we think they have potential.

Edit: Also I should say, IcePack is spot on about organizers/leaders. It's a lot of work (I imagine, I never actually did the job because it's so much work).

[Extreme Ways]

OK
Look at the player pool of the top ranked clans, say top 5.
They have the majority of long term, higher ranked, seasoned vets correct?
Country Club?

I guess I don't get your point. Good players are going to want to group together into good clans, and good clans are going to want to recruit more good players. That's a defining feature of competition. That's not a conspiracy or manipulation, it's just how it is.

Maybe the present clans should add to there player pool ( more battles) than expect some unknown
new clans to try to compete, and then fold. As in add more lower ranked players to the party so your
personal game count isn't exceeded. Give them a chance to succeed and learn with you.

I'm not sure a single S&M player has reached their game limits in the last decade. Maybe Josko? Now you could argue that's because we've hoovered up all the "higher ranked, seasoned vets", but in many cases I bet S&M is the only thing keeping many of them playing. Personally, I could have left CC years ago, but the low but steady number of clan games kept me here.

We also do recruit lower ranked players if we think they have potential.

Edit: Also I should say, IcePack is spot on about organizers/leaders. It's a lot of work (I imagine, I never actually did the job because it's so much work).

imo Nimic and Ice hit the nail right on the head.

80%+ of all the games I play are generally clangames. I also don't know about other perceived 'top' players, but from TOFU experience a large majority does not play that many games, rather more time goes into the few games that are considered "important". There are definitely outliers, see e.g. Josko before his break and Don, and neither will I claim that TOFU was representative of all top clans, but TOFU pretty much only played the cup and league and still got plenty of players to burn out on CC.

I also heavily debate the argument that top clans don't wish to war other clans because of the impact on rankings. Rankings are all fun and well, but the reason a top clan does not wish to war bottom feeder #3 is because those matchups are generally not very fun to play. Games against equal or perhaps stronger opponents are more enjoyable. When getting fucked by dice, you at least have the solace in that your opponent played well. When not fucked by dice, it's still a challenge to win.

[donche64]

OK
Look at the player pool of the top ranked clans, say top 5.
They have the majority of long term, higher ranked, seasoned vets correct?
Country Club?

I guess I don't get your point. Good players are going to want to group together into good clans, and good clans are going to want to recruit more good players. That's a defining feature of competition. That's not a conspiracy or manipulation, it's just how it is.

Maybe the present clans should add to there player pool ( more battles) than expect some unknown
new clans to try to compete, and then fold. As in add more lower ranked players to the party so your
personal game count isn't exceeded. Give them a chance to succeed and learn with you.

+1
I'm not sure a single S&M player has reached their game limits in the last decade. Maybe Josko? Now you could argue that's because we've hoovered up all the "higher ranked, seasoned vets", but in many cases I bet S&M is the only thing keeping many of them playing. Personally, I could have left CC years ago, but the low but steady number of clan games kept me here.

We also do recruit lower ranked players if we think they have potential.

Edit: Also I should say, IcePack is spot on about organizers/leaders. It's a lot of work (I imagine, I never actually did the job because it's so much work).

imo Nimic and Ice hit the nail right on the head.

80%+ of all the games I play are generally clangames. I also don't know about other perceived 'top' players, but from TOFU experience a large majority does not play that many games, rather more time goes into the few games that are considered "important". There are definitely outliers, see e.g. Josko before his break and Don, and neither will I claim that TOFU was representative of all top clans, but TOFU pretty much only played the cup and league and still got plenty of players to burn out on CC.

I also heavily debate the argument that top clans don't wish to war other clans because of the impact on rankings. Rankings are all fun and well, but the reason a top clan does not wish to war bottom feeder #3 is because those matchups are generally not very fun to play. Games against equal or perhaps stronger opponents are more enjoyable. When getting fucked by dice, you at least have the solace in that your opponent played well. When not fucked by dice, it's still a challenge to win.

[iAmCaffeine]

confirmed not a pussy

[willedtowin1]

Coffee Bean
You are an Ass.... Plain and simple
Your rubbing off on others here and making a mockery.
Maybe one day people can act like respectful human beings.
And not act like arrogant assholes.

CC MGMT...... You are simply complicit with no regard to proper etiquette.
Peace out and Sayonara

1. Etiquette, decorum, propriety imply observance of the formal requirements governing behavior in polite society. Etiquette refers to conventional forms and usages: the rules of etiquette. Decorum suggests dignity and a sense of what is becoming or appropriate for a person of good breeding: a fine sense of decorum.

[iAmCaffeine]

Coffee Bean
You are an Ass.... Plain and simple
Your rubbing off on others here and making a mockery.
Maybe one day people can act like respectful human beings.
And not act like arrogant assholes.

CC MGMT...... You are simply complicit with no regard to proper etiquette.
Peace out and Sayonara

1. Etiquette, decorum, propriety imply observance of the formal requirements governing behavior in polite society. Etiquette refers to conventional forms and usages: the rules of etiquette. Decorum suggests dignity and a sense of what is becoming or appropriate for a person of good breeding: a fine sense of decorum.

no idea how any of this is relevant to me saying our clan is confirmed not a pussy, for playing a war vs razor's clan, but your input is as valued as ever

[Jdsizzleslice]

I want to add fuel to this fire.

The late ICON never beat AFOS in any League Match, War, or Tournament.

[iAmCaffeine]

I want to add fuel to this fire.

The late ICON never beat AFOS in any League Match, War, or Tournament.

we were feeling nice

[cpusurfer]

Hey Everyone!

Going with this, I was combatting this issue in the past by making wars with more than 2 sets in order to spread the amount of games over a larger time span while getting the wars for the year. This ensured that my clan members were not burnt out and we could still participate in the official clan events.

[Swimmerdude99]

Hey Everyone!

Going with this, I was combatting this issue in the past by making wars with more than 2 sets in order to spread the amount of games over a larger time span while getting the wars for the year. This ensured that my clan members were not burnt out and we could still participate in the official clan events.

I think this is a phenomenal idea