Standardise The Prize.................POLL!

[Craig25]

Okay Troops, Kotaro wants some of your Tournament Love. He has a few 16 player Auto Tournaments up.

He's been waiting weeks for new players.

Show some support please.

I'm joining Ng this one:

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235951

That's my point Bro.

There is already prizes being offered to promote tournament participation.

All I'm saying, is use it better!!

For instance, there is a 32 player KO tournament up at the moment with 500 credits up for grabs.

There's a player led tournament with 4000 games a Season with zero prizes...

On what level is that fair or, value for money for Cc?

A) Life isn't fair, sorry it took you this long to find out.

B) People don't join tournaments for money. If that were so, my 'CIS/CID' tournaments would be instantly filled, as they offer 3 months apiece and more than 12 months if they get to the major, yet they still take weeks to fill.

C) It's not CC's job to make your tournaments more interesting. Every few days, a large chunk of us get a begging email from you, whether it's to contribute money or to harass CC to give you more money to give out, yet I've never seen where you're contributing the cash for your own tournaments.

tl;dr, put up for your own tournaments, stop begging CC and fellow members to pay to make your tournaments interesting.

[barterer2002]

A couple of things here

1). With regard that tournaments should be free to enter. All the real tournaments are. The only ones that aren’t are the automatic ones not run by any particular TO (Mad, I apologize if you are actually running these, they seem to be automated from where I sit).

2). I’m going to agree with Kotaro on the point that essentially we are giving away someone else’s money here. I voted to do that in the poll of course. Send me to any ballot box where you want to give me someone else’s money and I’ll vote for it.

3). I’ve always been of the opinion that tournaments don’t need prizes. I don’t know that I’ve ever played one for the prize and I have never run one that offered one. Tournaments are a different way to test your skills at conquer club. It’s a chance to meet new people. It’s the opportunity to try game types and maps you might not otherwise do.

4). Conquer club isn’t a budget breaker in and of itself. I tend to spend more for a case of beer than I do for a years premium membership. I question how important these prizes are

5). I see the contention that CC is already giving out these prizes just doing so in a more haphazard manner. I think one of my questions would be, of the prizes presented how many are given by CC and how many are provided by the organizer themselves?

6). I’m going to disagree with the idea that every tournament needs a prize. I don’t come from the participation trophy generation and I still think there are some thrills to just winning the tournament. I really don’t even need the medals but they do help me remember them down the line. If we want to standardize prizes it should be for larger tournaments. Something beyond the nice simple bracket tournament.

Craig, we don’t know each other well but I like you. I think you do a nice job on your tournaments. I know how much time it takes you to run them well because I have run a few in my time, and I appreciate you doing it. I happen to disagree with your premise that tournaments need prizes at all but I appreciate you raising the topic and inviting comments on it. Keep up the good work.
B

[Craig25]

A very balanced view.

It probably should be a 3 way poll:

1- A Fairer Tournament Prize Structure (using the same budget that is already spent)
2- No Changes
3- No Prizes at all.

I do disagree with you on your view players couldn't care if there was a prize or not. I personally like playing with something minimal to win, and I think that the majority of players would be like me, but that is a poll for another day.

Final point, the current budget for prizes is being squandered and allocated unfairly. No prizes at all would be better than the existing structure. But as above , a better structure using the same budget could produce amazing results in my opinion.


- Further Edit, I am going to add in an option for no prizes at all - We are 24 votes already in. So it will tarnish the poll validity. And it won't show a true picture, but, we can see if it gets any traction at all. Players who have already voted can also change their vote to the NO PRIZE option.

- Further, Firther Edit - I added the NO Prize Option and it wiped out all previous results. So now we have a true poll.

Nice input BRO!

A couple of things here

1). With regard that tournaments should be free to enter. All the real tournaments are. The only ones that aren’t are the automatic ones not run by any particular TO (Mad, I apologize if you are actually running these, they seem to be automated from where I sit).

2). I’m going to agree with Kotaro on the point that essentially we are giving away someone else’s money here. I voted to do that in the poll of course. Send me to any ballot box where you want to give me someone else’s money and I’ll vote for it.

3). I’ve always been of the opinion that tournaments don’t need prizes. I don’t know that I’ve ever played one for the prize and I have never run one that offered one. Tournaments are a different way to test your skills at conquer club. It’s a chance to meet new people. It’s the opportunity to try game types and maps you might not otherwise do.

4). Conquer club isn’t a budget breaker in and of itself. I tend to spend more for a case of beer than I do for a years premium membership. I question how important these prizes are

5). I see the contention that CC is already giving out these prizes just doing so in a more haphazard manner. I think one of my questions would be, of the prizes presented how many are given by CC and how many are provided by the organizer themselves?

6). I’m going to disagree with the idea that every tournament needs a prize. I don’t come from the participation trophy generation and I still think there are some thrills to just winning the tournament. I really don’t even need the medals but they do help me remember them down the line. If we want to standardize prizes it should be for larger tournaments. Something beyond the nice simple bracket tournament.

Craig, we don’t know each other well but I like you. I think you do a nice job on your tournaments. I know how much time it takes you to run them well because I have run a few in my time, and I appreciate you doing it. I happen to disagree with your premise that tournaments need prizes at all but I appreciate you raising the topic and inviting comments on it. Keep up the good work.
B

[Craig25]

"Every few days, a large chunk of us get a begging email from you, whether it's to contribute money or to harass CC to give you more money to give out".

I would like to make it clear I have never asked for money from any player, or asked any player to pay to play in a tournament. Begging e-mail's maybe 1 or 2, I'm not proud.

On a totally un-related matter.

The Sepp Blatter retirment fund is now accepting cash payments. You can see the 1st CC player making his deposit here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pqO6tK8_Wg

That's my point Bro.

There is already prizes being offered to promote tournament participation.

All I'm saying, is use it better!!

For instance, there is a 32 player KO tournament up at the moment with 500 credits up for grabs.

There's a player led tournament with 4000 games a Season with zero prizes...

On what level is that fair or, value for money for Cc?

A) Life isn't fair, sorry it took you this long to find out.

B) People don't join tournaments for money. If that were so, my 'CIS/CID' tournaments would be instantly filled, as they offer 3 months apiece and more than 12 months if they get to the major, yet they still take weeks to fill.

C) It's not CC's job to make your tournaments more interesting. Every few days, a large chunk of us get a begging email from you, whether it's to contribute money or to harass CC to give you more money to give out, yet I've never seen where you're contributing the cash for your own tournaments.

tl;dr, put up for your own tournaments, stop begging CC and fellow members to pay to make your tournaments interesting.

[general cod]

Tournaments with quality prizes will get people involved, it is fact that CC has NOT got a progressive profile and new ideas from management are very few and some are very weak. Take a minute to think what would happen should there be regular cash/voucher prizes of some worth - there's a huge growing market for online gambling and poker - is it possible to tap into that market... for me yes for sure but do we really want the nasty side that would come with that - hackers and scumbags that would change CC but make lots of money for Big Wham. Obviously no so why not make the prizes CC credits in form a currency to be used here to buy into games / merchandise / stickers etc etc. Yes it's here already but it's a bit pathetic - there is an opportunity to develop the site massively through this but right now it's so very flat and not very inspiring, there is so much potential and much of the structure is already in place, to be fair it's been rolling along like a stagnant ball of poo occasionally assisted by dung beetles!!
People like Craig ( and others ) have put so much effort into tourneys to make them interesting and fun it's a shame that it's not seemingly given the support and nurturing deserved - i wonder if BW's heart is really in this and would be good to hear what he has to say as he is pretty much silent.
Anyway good luck to Craig as i am sure he will need it !

[The Mad Butcher]

I will go with the flow, Pretty badges and different colours mean nothing to me, i play to fill in my quiet time, thats it. So keep up the good work Craig25 im happy with whatever you decide

[ThorDisk]

I have not a Fu*** clue what all those badges strange things I get from CC. When new a was always checking and hoping for some benefits etc. But nothing... Tournament badges and tokens YES for sure. I like you are so dedicated and are doing this. I will when I have time, be if help if asked.
I want mystery box.. when i open it … one YEAR FREE membership. or some cool prize to use in the store. (this may pop up for something special done). Like you should have a mystery box now. Also other things. Exciting stuff.
Congratulation with being so inventive and shake all up a little.
Also it would be great in tournaments to meet players at around same level, at least in entry games.

ThorDisk

[Wile E Coyote]

To be honest i don't use them or know what any of them do, even CC stars i have no clue! They just appear and its not clear what benefit we get, at least with badges you get the qudos of seeing where you are at, but with these, i haven't really paid much attention.

I suspect i'm not alone in this, and whole amount of work needs to be done to overhaul and explain what they all mean and a how they work.

at least if we had to use them to get into tournaments and challenges it would mean they did something.

Could they be use during clan games? not sure?

Cheers Craig i think you are doing an amazing job!

Peace!

[Craig25]

I agree with this 100%

All be it, I don't think CC should provide any more support to tournaments than they do now. It should just be done better.

I have to share this. I thought, providing merchandise would just be way too much bother for the scale of CC. But then I thought, if a company already sold said merchandise then it could be possible. And I actually found one. Now, these prizes would be very expensive, so not advocating blowing budgets on t-shirts. But some of these are amazing, my favourites: "KAMCHATKA WILL FALL", or "TIME TO POP THE BIG QUESTION.... WHO WANTS AN ALLIANCE". I'm buying one......The wife will freak!

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/?iaCode=u-clothing&query=risk%20board%20game&ref=search_box

Tournaments with quality prizes will get people involved, it is fact that CC has NOT got a progressive profile and new ideas from management are very few and some are very weak. Take a minute to think what would happen should there be regular cash/voucher prizes of some worth - there's a huge growing market for online gambling and poker - is it possible to tap into that market... for me yes for sure but do we really want the nasty side that would come with that - hackers and scumbags that would change CC but make lots of money for Big Wham. Obviously no so why not make the prizes CC credits in form a currency to be used here to buy into games / merchandise / stickers etc etc. Yes it's here already but it's a bit pathetic - there is an opportunity to develop the site massively through this but right now it's so very flat and not very inspiring, there is so much potential and much of the structure is already in place, to be fair it's been rolling along like a stagnant ball of poo occasionally assisted by dung beetles!!
People like Craig ( and others ) have put so much effort into tourneys to make them interesting and fun it's a shame that it's not seemingly given the support and nurturing deserved - i wonder if BW's heart is really in this and would be good to hear what he has to say as he is pretty much silent.
Anyway good luck to Craig as i am sure he will need it !

[ThorDisk]

I have not once had a feeling you have asked for anything personally.
From my viewpoint I only see you want to make the system more fun.
Why try to put trouble into this awesome commitment and work the inventor of these new ideas are doing?
Please to all CC owners, admins etc. Let new ideas flower, dont cut them down before they get a chance to benefit all of CC.

ThorDisk

[Craig25]

Hey TD

Nice input!

Remember, the Super League will sort itself into Leagues graded by Season Zero performance in Season 1. I just checked, you are on the waiting list to join. As you didn't get in on Sesaon Zero you will be starting at the bottom and working your way to the Top! You will love it.

Looking like 21 Leagues next Season. 10 Players in each. Win your League and get promoted 3 Leagues!

I have not a Fu*** clue what all those badges strange things I get from CC. When new a was always checking and hoping for some benefits etc. But nothing... Tournament badges and tokens YES for sure. I like you are so dedicated and are doing this. I will when I have time, be if help if asked.
I want mystery box.. when i open it … one YEAR FREE membership. or some cool prize to use in the store. (this may pop up for something special done). Like you should have a mystery box now. Also other things. Exciting stuff.
Congratulation with being so inventive and shake all up a little.
Also it would be great in tournaments to meet players at around same level, at least in entry games.

ThorDisk

[c c]

Agree 100% with you Craig. Vote cast!!!!!! Redesign !!!!!

[barterer2002]

A bit overly dramatic on the DMs there weren’t you Craig? Lol.

So I keep reading your contention that CC is using resources incorrectly. I suspect they are going to TOs that ask. The only time I’ve ever asked was for the TPA (which should get a prize if anything does of course). So let me ask. What is the budget that you are seeing. Is cc giving away ten free years every year, 50? 100?

I like Thor’s idea of a mystery box. You can do different levels. Bronze silver gold style every so often that will pop out an extra 3 months, 6 months or year of membership. But not every time. Most of the time you get the useless stars eggs and unicorns.

[beano66]

I think tangible tokens is the way to go

[Mojo2222]

Agree with Craig!

[edretreats]

Tokens sound good if usable

[benga]

I had a quick look in my inventory. I have Love Hearts, Clovers, Mad Master Tokens, Mad Dice Eggs (which look pretty good but WTAF are they..), various other eggs (not as cool as the mad dice eggs), Super Tournaments Eggs, Stockings, Gift Boxes, Great War Tokens, Conquer Stars (about 3000 of them in all different colours).
I have been here 20 years and I have almost no idea what any of these things are...............Do you guys feel the same????

Those are all tied to specific events around the year. Conquer stars are used either as prizes or entry fees, example.

Suggestion
Tournament Tokens: A total number of how many each player has in your profile. Every year when you renew your membership you get a set amount of them (example 1500). These can only be used to enter Tournaments.

The above system is already a tournament token system.

Tournaments:

There will be 4 Levels of Tournaments: FREE / Low / Medium / High

Free = Free to Enter.
Low = A very low cost in Tournament Tokens to enter, example, between 1 and 50
Medium = A Medium cost in Tournament Tokens to Enter, example, between 50 and 150
High = 150-500 Tournament Tokens

This is already implemented, not exact way you described, but with same intention.
Entrie fees are not used widely, cause manual run tournaments can't be run that way.
However using AT tool you can set your own entry fees and prizes.
Prizes do however be match entry fees.

Prizes

This is where it gets great!

EVERY TOURNAMENT WILL HAVE PRIZES! - These will be the CREDITS we currently use in the store, SIMPLE!

THE SAME FORMULAE WILL BE USED TO CALCULATE PRIZES FOR EACH TOURNAMENT. So, it will be entirely fair.

If you enter a Tournament with 500 Runners and win it you are going to be rich! (figuratively speaking). And if you enter a Tournament with 16 players, you may not be rich, but you will still get that warm and fuzzy feeling when you SCUD a Tournament!

Every tournament so far had a prize, it was a medal.
Apart for medal TD matches any credits purchased by TO upon his request to match the credit winners.
And I have also added a yearly bonus of 3500 credits to TOs, that request it, so we get more people to run tournaments.

Again I refer you to use AT to set entry fees and prizes.
I can accomodate within the rules currently existing.

[Craig25]

It's not that high Bro!

Regarding my dramatic DM, obviously it was me who deleted the votes in error, but, nothing like a little bit of drama to get people out to vote.

A bit overly dramatic on the DMs there weren’t you Craig? Lol.

So I keep reading your contention that CC is using resources incorrectly. I suspect they are going to TOs that ask. The only time I’ve ever asked was for the TPA (which should get a prize if anything does of course). So let me ask. What is the budget that you are seeing. Is cc giving away ten free years every year, 50? 100?

I like Thor’s idea of a mystery box. You can do different levels. Bronze silver gold style every so often that will pop out an extra 3 months, 6 months or year of membership. But not every time. Most of the time you get the useless stars eggs and unicorns.

[MyTurnToWin]

I don't even look at prizes, I just look at the tourney. So I might not be the best judge.

I did get extremely irritated in a tournament when I was being harassed because I didn't take my turns fast enough. The word "SCUD" kept being used. I was being encouraged to quit/resign the tourney..... I didn't. I stayed and finished. But I hesitate to join that guys' tourney's because I don't want to be hassled. No prize would be good enough to put up with that nonsense.

I am not sure prizes bring the excitement back.

[Craig25]

Hi Benga

TY for a comprahensive post. I hope you take this in the spirit it is intended:

I had a quick look in my inventory. I have Love Hearts, Clovers, Mad Master Tokens, Mad Dice Eggs (which look pretty good but WTAF are they..), various other eggs (not as cool as the mad dice eggs), Super Tournaments Eggs, Stockings, Gift Boxes, Great War Tokens, Conquer Stars (about 3000 of them in all different colours).
I have been here 20 years and I have almost no idea what any of these things are...............Do you guys feel the same????



Those are all tied to specific events around the year. Conquer stars are used either as prizes or entry fees,

That is the problem Benga. And why the Title of this post is "Standardise The Prize"


Suggestion
Tournament Tokens: A total number of how many each player has in your profile. Every year when you renew your membership you get a set amount of them (example 1500). These can only be used to enter Tournaments.



The above system is already a tournament token system.


Simplify it and Standardise it is the way forward. I proposed a rough system as a guide, but if there was something simpler still that encompassed winning and losing something tangible. then that is the way forward. If it isn't clear, what is in place just now isn't doing anything like what it is meant to do.

New system needs to inspire people to play in Tournaments.



There will be 4 Levels of Tournaments: FREE / Low / Medium / High

Free = Free to Enter.
Low = A very low cost in Tournament Tokens to enter, example, between 1 and 50
Medium = A Medium cost in Tournament Tokens to Enter, example, between 50 and 150
High = 150-500 Tournament Tokens


This is already implemented, not exact way you described, but with same intention.
Entrie fees are not used widely, cause manual run tournaments can't be run that way.
However using AT tool you can set your own entry fees and prizes.
Prizes do however be match entry fees.

AT really shouldnt be part of this discussion as it is on getting a more inspiring, simpler and fairer prize structure for Tournaments. But, I will say, AT could not run any Tournament I have run to date. But here's hoping some improvements will be made to it to allow it to be utilised to run more and better Tournaments. TY for your response on that too!
To close off on AT, I don't think it offers any part of a Standardised solution, when, it will only be used for AT's.


Prizes

This is where it gets great!

EVERY TOURNAMENT WILL HAVE PRIZES! - These will be the CREDITS we currently use in the store, SIMPLE!

THE SAME FORMULAE WILL BE USED TO CALCULATE PRIZES FOR EACH TOURNAMENT. So, it will be entirely fair.

If you enter a Tournament with 500 Runners and win it you are going to be rich! (figuratively speaking). And if you enter a Tournament with 16 players, you may not be rich, but you will still get that warm and fuzzy feeling when you SCUD a Tournament!



Every tournament so far had a prize, it was a medal.
Apart for medal TD matches any credits purchased by TO upon his request to match the credit winners.
And I have also added a yearly bonus of 3500 credits to TOs, that request it, so we get more people to run tournaments.

Again I refer you to use AT to set entry fees and prizes.
I can accomodate within the rules currently existing.


Prizes in Tournaments should not favour AT Tournaments. I am proposing a standardised Prize Structure to inspire increased Tournament participation. Until AT is capabe of running the vast majority of player led Tournaments it cannot be considered for any part of a standardised solution.

As an example, on the Right hand side of the Tournament page are Auto Tournaments, almost every one has a small credit prize. Usually somewhere between 18-36 Runners.

When players replying to this forum are participating in Tournaments with 100's of runners with no prizes as standard, and they are voting in large numbers AGAINST the current system. Maybe it's time to consider real change?

I suggested parity on prizes between player led and CC led tournaments. Use the prize budget and provide it to Tournaments based on:

1. Number of entrants
2. Number of games to complete the Tournament

Reward the Players fairly.

If someone wins a Tournament that has consisted of 5000 games versus someone who has won a Tournament consisting of 100 games. Have a formulae which distributes the CC Prize Budget fairly! Regarless of whether it is a CC set up Tournament (AT) or a Player led Tournament.



And Benga, the level of support is not the issue. It is simply how it is used. It is nowhere near achieving what it should.


I am pretty sure we could knock our heads together and come up with a better solution than what is in place now?

[RICHARDJOHN]

my vote is in !!!!!!

get rid of the Bull Crap eggs, clovers, etc..... it just clutters up the page and you cannot use them anyway, what a waste of time.

How about being able to cash in all that useless crap for tournament tokens???

[egerskydiver]

Good idea! You 're doing quite well! Nice plan!

[DavidCrome]

Not sure why we need credits as we pay anyway? Also getting free play for a quarter when we pay for membership works? I pay every quarter and one 3 months membership last month, not sure that will be credited to me in my game? I think trophies are the way to go for the serious gamer? Thanks for your tournaments though Craig.

[Awoodness]

Of course, everyone wants money and free memberships. Who wouldn't want stuff like that? this site needs to make money, it's worth it. It's a nominal fee to play unlimited. If we put up money in a pot, people will take things much more serious. People cry foul when there is no money on the line now. Can you imagine the "rigged" conspiracy theories that will come up if there is money on the line? 3+ players games would be a nightmare. I'll play for money, can everyone handle it?, I doubt it. Nominal money would be best, credits are good, there are credits tourneys right now. I enjoy getting a trophy, all the colored stars are dumb. Too many stars, too much inventory. I appreciate the effort, would prefer it different...

[artillery77]

Love the tournament. The folks running this are awesome.

I also have no idea what any of these inventory items mean. Maybe it's like CC crypto coin and I secretly have billions I never knew about.....but I haven't figured it out in the first decade+. Then again, I'm a slow learner. So whether it's credits or My Little Pony patches or memorialized chat room postings designating the best quotes of Llama...it's all the same to me.