Nantucket v11

[Minister X]

try to find a way of acknowledging the quakers, who were at their peak in nantucket during the whaling period.

If you don't mind, Ian, I'd rather not. As a matter of personal philosophy I try not to mention religion in the public square. I've found that doing so almost invariably tends to make someone angry.

The Iraq map calls Sunni and Shi'a "ethnic groups". The Germany map makes no mention of Luther. The Haiti map makes no mention of voodoo. The Holy Roman Empire map has no mention of religion. Many maps show countries that are 90% Catholic without making any reference to the fact. The Italy map doesn't even include The Vatican or The Holy See. The WWI Ottoman Empire map makes no mention of Islam.

Some maps do contain religious references. Tribal War - Ancient Israel. Classic Cities: Madrid shows some religious sites among the many landmarks. But the Easter map makes absolutely no mention of Jesus. Even the special Christmas map has just two very small visual hints about the birth surrounded by lots and lots of presents and a tree.

In short, I see no need to introduce any element of religion into this map, no precedent for doing so, and would prefer not to. I hope you can accept this.

[iancanton]

by default, the game engine counts all regions to determine the number of deployable troops.

there's no need to make jerky borders if the jaggedness is artificial, unless u think they look much better.

agreed on relatively small land bonuses.

to save confusion, avoid using region on the map to describe bonus zones, as the game log uses a different definition of region.

the purple bonus ought to be called siaskonset, as this was the only settlement in that area.

apparently, miacomet meant the meeting place.

https://www.miacometgolf.com/story

consider a nod to the fact that miacomet was the last stronghold of the wampanoag indian population, whose fortunes declined precipitously once whaling boats were no longer profitable. i suggest region names such as miacomet indian town, indian meeting house and indian burial ground.

https://nha.org/research/nantucket-hist ... /research/

see if u can work sunset hill into the map, if only as a replacement name. this was where a branch of the powerful coffin family lived. all of these bits and pieces are an attempt to make the map historically recognisable, even if necessarily incomplete.

https://nha.org/research/nantucket-history/

ur aversion to religion is accepted.

ian.

[Minister X]

to save confusion, avoid using region on the map to describe bonus zones, as the game log uses a different definition of region.

Changed to "area". Is that okay?

the purple bonus ought to be called siaskonset, as this was the only settlement in that area.

I considered doing so but "Tom Nevers", for whatever reason, seems to be a more famous name. Hard to say. Maybe I just happened to recognize it because it's a rather odd placename. Per Wikipedia: "Tom Never was a Native American born on the island of Nantucket circa 1725. His birth name was originally very long and was shortened to Tom Never by the British settlers who hired him to be in charge of a whale lookout station around 1745." Let's consider keeping him. See below.

i suggest region names such as miacomet indian town, indian meeting house and indian burial ground.

"Indian" is now considered something of a derogatory name in much of the USA, with "Native American" being preferred. "Indian" supposedly derives from Columbus thinking he'd sailed to Asia (though this may be apocryphal). I'd rather just use "Wampanoag" somewhere, perhaps as a replacement for one of the other green terts? Either just the name or maybe "Wampanoag Burial Grounds" (though that's a lot to fit in) or "Wampanoag Valley"? And though few will realize it, keeping "Tom Nevers" in caps also is a salute of sorts to the original inhabitants.

see if u can work sunset hill into the map, if only as a replacement name.

Done. It replaces "Warehouses" which was an iffy name to begin with.

[Minister X]

v6:

• Changed "Region" to "Area".
• Changed "Warehouses" to "Sunset Hill".
• Changed "Nobacker Farm" to "Wampanoag Lands".
• Changed victory conditions. The old one had two problems. First, holding the whales and Dock without needing to connect them made little sense. What good is monopolizing the whaling grounds if you can't get the goods back to port? Second, saying you had to hold "DOCKS" was ambiguous. Just the one region or the whole bonus area? Both problems are solved by the new wording.
• Army numbers added and changed so that now all the neutrals are shown with their tentatively correct values.

[iancanton]

to save confusion, avoid using region on the map to describe bonus zones, as the game log uses a different definition of region.

Changed to "area". Is that okay?

this works.

the purple bonus ought to be called siaskonset, as this was the only settlement in that area.

I considered doing so but "Tom Nevers", for whatever reason, seems to be a more famous name. Hard to say. Maybe I just happened to recognize it because it's a rather odd placename. Per Wikipedia: "Tom Never was a Native American born on the island of Nantucket circa 1725. His birth name was originally very long and was shortened to Tom Never by the British settlers who hired him to be in charge of a whale lookout station around 1745." Let's consider keeping him. See below.

the correct name, which can be verified from various maps from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, was tom never's head, which actually made sense, given the above explanation. sometime in the twentieth century, after losing the apostrophe and being shortened, the connection with its history was no longer obvious. let's restore his head to its rightful place!

i suggest region names such as miacomet indian town, indian meeting house and indian burial ground.

"Indian" is now considered something of a derogatory name in much of the USA, with "Native American" being preferred. "Indian" supposedly derives from Columbus thinking he'd sailed to Asia (though this may be apocryphal). I'd rather just use "Wampanoag" somewhere, perhaps as a replacement for one of the other green terts? Either just the name or maybe "Wampanoag Burial Grounds" (though that's a lot to fit in) or "Wampanoag Valley"? And though few will realize it, keeping "Tom Nevers" in caps also is a salute of sorts to the original inhabitants.

u mean that indian is now considered to be derogatory by white people in much of the usa! although i'm unfamiliar with the actual numbers, a quick internet search shows several websites stating that, as of 1995, according to the US Census Bureau, 50% of people who identified as Indigenous preferred the term American Indian, 37% preferred Native American, and the remainder preferred other terms or had no preference.

Changed "Nobacker Farm" to "Wampanoag Lands".

this is a good alternative.

Changed victory conditions. The old one had two problems. First, holding the whales and Dock without needing to connect them made little sense. What good is monopolizing the whaling grounds if you can't get the goods back to port? Second, saying you had to hold "DOCKS" was ambiguous. Just the one region or the whole bonus area? Both problems are solved by the new wording.

agreed and this is an improvement.

although u don't need to do this till the gameplay is more settled, it'll be interesting, as ever, to see how u eventually downsize the small map to 630 x 600.

time to be [moved] to the main foundry workshop. onward and upward!



ian.

[Minister X]

tom never's head

I love it!

although u don't need to do this till the gameplay is more settled, it'll be interesting, as ever, to see how u eventually downsize the small map to 630 x 600.

The island itself, allowing for a bit of extra for the sea lanes, is 773x494. So I can reduce it 20% and it will fit into the allowable space. All text is now easily readable - it can be reduced. The whale and Pequod images can be made very small or even, if necessary, eliminated. The tightest army number now is in Squam - it can be moved offshore. I think I can make a nicely playable small map without sacrificing too much of the visual appeal. Some, for sure, and we all expect that, but I'll try to limit the esthetic loss.

time to be [moved] to the main foundry workshop. onward and upward!

Cool!

[Minister X]

• Bonuses calculated and the map edited accordingly.
• Added "Head" to "Tom Nevers".
• Added a line to the Pequod instructions: "Troops cannot return to land." Without this the Pequod could be used as a shortcut between Docks and Madaket. But considering that you must hit a neutral 4 to get to Pequod in the first place maybe we should allow the shortcut?? (Without the shortcut you have to go through three sea terts or four lands ones (minimum).
• First draft of small map completed. Dimensions: 628x600.







Regarding the bonus calculations: notice that I jiggered the "number of defending territories" for Madaket and Docks. This is because both have terts that can be attacked only from harbor terts that start neutral. And Madaket Harbor connects only to The Sound (Tuckernuck doesn't count) and The Harbor connects only to Polpis and The Sound. If Madaket were changed from 3.5 to 4, the "result" would be 3.58 rounded up to four. (With Docks it makes no difference in the final bonus.) Anything with an X.5x result should be looked at askance and Madaket is, for all intents and purposes, a corner continent. For these two reasons I felt it appropriate to downgrade its bonus. We can certainly discuss.

I lose the Melville quote and the dark frame on the small map; otherwise it includes everything. I don't like losing the frame but the slightly dark border shading all around makes up for that a little bit. I may reconsider and add the frame back, squeezing the rest just a touch. (Or maybe Ian can license a couple of extra pixels for the small map?) Losing the Melville quote is unfortunate but it was rather inevitable. It is not essential to gameplay and I think making the needed instructions as readable as possible is very important. And please note that the army numbers look pretty rough because I resized them twice instead of added them anew from scratch. They are the right size and do indicate the space they need accurately; if their fuzzy appearance is objected to I can easily enough replace them with fresh and clean new ones.

Oops. Tuckernuck is n2 on the big map and n3 on the small. The big map is correct.

[Minister X]

agreed on relatively small land bonuses.

That's from the second post on this page and makes reference to a prior discussion about the sea needing to be more important than the land. I frankly forgot about this when doing the bonus calcs and altering the map. I therefore think that all the continent bonuses should be reduced by one and will make that change in the next version unless convinced to do otherwise.

[iancanton]

where did u find that old bonus calculator spreadsheet? i thought it had been lost forever! a major issue was that it usually undervalued bonuses that had a high number of regions, so that they almost always ended up being ignored. here's the version that replaced it.

viewtopic.php?f=649&t=151297

in any case, the new calculator gives higher bonus values for this map, which isn't the way we want it to be. perhaps simplify the whale bonuses to +3 each and reduce the three sea regions to single neutrals?

ian.

[Minister X]

I downloaded that bonus calculator seven or eight years ago and had no idea it had been replaced. I've used it on a couple of maps these last few months (yikes!). I could send it to you if you wish.

The new one, I notice, gives much higher bonuses on the classic map than it actually has. That map has been proven out over a million plays. What gives? Eleven for Asia? One for Oceania? Seven for North America? And unfortunately I'd need another year or two of high school math to understand =ROUND(F4*EXP(1/EXP(EXP(1)))+EXP(EXP(0.5)-F4)-EXP(1);2)



I think 12 for all four whales might be too much, especially if the route there is made easier. I know you want the whales elevated vs. the land and I agree wholeheartedly with that desire to make the THEME of the map very important, but we must balance theme with BALANCED PLAY. If it takes owning half the island to equal four whales I'm worried the game might always be a race to the whales and forget the rest. But regardless, playtest will answer these issues.

[Minister X]

v8 changes: Bonus amounts revised; circular white blob placed under Madaket army number (circle to distinguish it from sea terts)

Using the proper spreadsheet, here are the bonus calculations:



Because they came out higher than the amounts previously used, and based on recent discussion, I also revised the whale bonuses. There's now something of a rough equivalent between taking all four whales and taking about half the island. Note that for the calculation I counted the starting neutrals as "attackers". It would make no difference at Polpis but if Madaket Harbor were considered to be a bit less than a full attacker it might make sense to reduce Madaket's bonus from five to four. There is no other bonus of four, and there needn't be, but it might be nice to have one. Also, the bonuses on the eastern side are lower than all others, having a slightly lower one on the west side would add some balance, though I can't say what real benefit there is in that. Also note that at 3.49 Tom Nevers Head could go either way. Should it be a 4 instead of a 3?

Rather than have each whale worth four, I feel a slight incremental increase will encourage more fighting out in the sea. If I own two and you own two, I'm more likely to attack you if I can gain nine thereby instead of just eight. Eh... doesn't make much difference. Maybe the increments should increase -- instead of 3/7/11/16, perhaps 2/6/11/17. Either that or just go 4/4/4/4 and save some space in that upper right legend.

[iancanton]

I downloaded that bonus calculator seven or eight years ago and had no idea it had been replaced. I've used it on a couple of maps these last few months (yikes!). I could send it to you if you wish.

please!

The new one, I notice, gives much higher bonuses on the classic map than it actually has. That map has been proven out over a million plays. What gives? Eleven for Asia? One for Oceania? Seven for North America?

if u've ever taken part in a discussion on how to win on classic, then these numbers aren't as ridiculous as they sound!

Because they came out higher than the amounts previously used, and based on recent discussion, I also revised the whale bonuses. There's now something of a rough equivalent between taking all four whales and taking about half the island.

on this map, which has hardly any impassables and a glut of 4-region bonus areas, the bonus calculator spreadsheets give very high values. as mentioned before, it just wouldn't make sense to leave the island by hitting neutrals if the bonuses were so high.

ian.

[Minister X]

I downloaded that bonus calculator seven or eight years ago and had no idea it had been replaced. I've used it on a couple of maps these last few months (yikes!). I could send it to you if you wish.

please!

This file was converted from an .XLS to an .ODS (OpenOffice Calc format) and then back again, so I can't vouch for it, but it looks fine and should work just like the original. The link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LBErcvb-DAlhzThvLp7yAmMjqLGB6tM_/view?usp=sharing

Because they came out higher than the amounts previously used, and based on recent discussion, I also revised the whale bonuses. There's now something of a rough equivalent between taking all four whales and taking about half the island.

on this map, which has hardly any impassables and a glut of 4-region bonus areas, the bonus calculator spreadsheets give very high values. as mentioned before, it just wouldn't make sense to leave the island by hitting neutrals if the bonuses were so high.

I am more than willing to accept specific guidance here. Should I reduce all land bonuses by one (and Madaket and Tom Nevers Head by two)? Or should I up the whale bonuses? Or is some other solution advisable? Really, man... help me out here.

[Fuchsia tude]

Does Miacomet border Head of the Plains? I assume so based on the smaller map, but only on the larger I can't quite tell. I might significantly reduce the border there if so, down to a couple pixels. Or if no, erase some of those pixels and add some blue between the two.

[Minister X]

Yeah. Same problem over at Sankaty Head - Quidnet. I'll put a couple of two-headed arrows out in the water to solve any uncertainty.

[HitRed]

The Peqoud

Would boarded fit better than accessed?

The Peqoud can be boarded directly from...

As in..."Prepare to be boarded!"

[Minister X]

It does sound better. It's a tiny, tiny bit less clear and informative but I like it. Change made.

[Fuchsia tude]

Yeah. Same problem over at Sankaty Head - Quidnet. I'll put a couple of two-headed arrows out in the water to solve any uncertainty.

Sankaty Head-Quidnet seems more obviously yes. Instead of arrows, you might just widen the width of the respective isthmi so there's no ambiguity. Gameplay clarity is more important than exact geographic fidelity.

[Minister X]

Version 9

• Revised border areas between Miacomet/Head of the Plains and Sankaty Head/Quidnet to make connection more obvious.
• Changed "accessed" to "boarded" in the Pequod text.
• Added a dash before "from" in the Melville quote, changed line breaks, and slightly rearranged positioning of stuff in that corner.





Fuchcia tude: that was a good suggestion. Thanks.

Ian: I'm really hoping you'll respond to my plea of 9/25 above.

[iancanton]

I downloaded that bonus calculator seven or eight years ago and had no idea it had been replaced. I've used it on a couple of maps these last few months (yikes!). I could send it to you if you wish.

please!

This file was converted from an .XLS to an .ODS (OpenOffice Calc format) and then back again, so I can't vouch for it, but it looks fine and should work just like the original. The link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LBErcvb-DAlhzThvLp7yAmMjqLGB6tM_/view?usp=sharing

i use openoffice calc, so that works for me!

Should I reduce all land bonuses by one (and Madaket and Tom Nevers Head by two)?

reducing all land bonuses by 2 might prevent the whales from becoming irrelevant.

Does Miacomet border Head of the Plains?

from the map below, they're clearly not supposed to border, which fortunately helps gameplay. in modern times, it's possible to walk across at that point, except during the periods when the the pond is opened to the ocean, twice yearly.

https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/ids:3503561



ian.

[Minister X]

Interesting. The map you posted is included among the collection available here: http://www.old-maps.com/ma/ma_CoBDN_Nantucket_TownMaps.htm

All the maps before Waling's 1858 map show the ponds unconnected to the ocean. Then starting with Waling they all show that stubby little connecting line. (All the later maps appear to be copies of Waling.) Here's a closeup of the 1776 map I used as my base:



Now for one thing, how much can we trust the accuracy of these mappers? Some of those maps are very crude. For another, the geomorphology changes over time due to storms and maybe even with the tides. But who cares? The important thing is gameplay and you suggest gameplay would be enhanced if there were no connection. I can't disagree and it helps justify reducing the land bonuses (fewer connections = lower bonus). So in v10 (coming shortly!) I'll make that pond an arm of the sea and reduce all land bonuses by two.

[Minister X]

v10

• Separated Miacomet from Head of the Plains with an arm of the sea.
• Reduced all land bonuses by 2 except Squam, which was reduced by 1.
• Added "sea" to victory conditions text to avoid the "path" being traceable overland from Madaket to Docks. (Mostly to save HitRed from having to code every possible land route!)
• Minor adjustments to positioning of text blocks, shadowing, other aspects of overall appearance.

[iancanton]

the geomorphology changes over time due to storms and maybe even with the tides.

i believe u're right. the sand berm is very low in height, which means that both hummock pond in the south and sesachacha pond in the east receive ocean overwash from time to time as well as open during natural breaches on occasions. if the map were much bigger and transforms tags in the xml actually worked, then we could have storms cutting off connections beside these ponds. however, neither is the case, so it's a moot point.

the land bonuses are still big enough to make it suicidal to take ten neutrals before receiving a decent whale bonus. perhaps reducing the open sea regions to n1 might help.

i've a feeling that the surfside and dionis names are anachronistic, but we can fix these in due course if and when we find more appropriate names.

ian.

[Minister X]

i've a feeling that the surfside and dionis names are anachronistic, but we can fix these in due course if and when we find more appropriate names.

I just took a very close look at all the old maps. "Surfside" first appears on a 1921 map. No region/neighborhood name appears before that but on maps from 1838 to 1891 two small ponds are shown along the south coast in the area of our tert. One is named "Weweeder Pond" (in one later map "Weedweeder") and the other is "Nobadeer Pond". I think we could adopt either (minus "pond"). They're both quite cute.

Dionis tert has the following possible alternatives: 1775 and 1776 maps: "Capum Pond" is near the north coast 1782 and 1791 maps: Sherburn. From Wikipedia: "Before 1795 the town on the island was called Sherburne. The original settlement was near Capaum Pond. At that time the pond was a small harbor, whose entrance silted up, forcing the settlers to dismantle their houses, and move them northeast by two miles to the present location." I've studied Google maps. About two miles west of the current town there are three small ponds. They lie, as best I can tell, along my border between Dionis and Sunset Hill. So I think we'd be okay changing Dionis to either Sherburn or Sherburne. But if you want to get technical, this actually would be confusing, since the town itself was called that at the time of our scenario and our town is at "Docks". The 1801 map shows a "Capam Point" on the coast where Capum (or Capuam) Pond was. The 1838 map names three ponds up there but also has a name inland, near the south of our tert: "Cambridge." Also, a bit closer to the east arm of that tuning-fork-shaped pond: "The Woods". The 1858 map, the first to show extensive roads or trails, depicts Cambridge as a sort of village or crossroads. 1869 also shows Cambridge, a bit farther north closer to the center of our tert.

That's all I could glean from the antique maps available at http://www.old-maps.com/ma/ma_CoBDN_Nantucket_TownMaps.htm. I've searched for other old maps but that website seems to be comprehensive.

Now as for "Dionis" itself, it is now the name of both a neighborhood and a beach. I have found three relevant references. The neighborhood appears to have been named in the 1880s or 90s by a real estate developer. Also around this time a locomotive used on the island's narrow-gauge railway was named Dionis. I don't know if the beach name extends farther back but I expect it might. Most relevant, perhaps, for us is the origin of the name itself. First, from Wikipedia:

Tristram Coffin (or Coffyn) (c. 1609 – 2 October 1681) was an immigrant to Massachusetts from England. In 1659 he led a group of investors that bought Nantucket from Thomas Mayhew for thirty pounds and two beaver hats. He became a prominent citizen of the settlement. A great number of his descendants became prominent in North American society, and many were involved in the later history of Nantucket during and after its heyday as a whaling center. Almost all notable Americans with roots in Nantucket are descended from Tristram Coffin...

And who was this founder's wife? Dionis Stevens. She lived to be 71 years old and had 75 grandchildren. Yowza!

Chances are the 1880's developers simply honored her by naming their subdivision after her. Using the same name on our map we might be anachronistic to a degree but I wouldn't mind honoring her as well. I recommend we either keep her name or adopt "Cambridge". And either "Weweeder" or "Nobadeer" instead of "Surfside".

the land bonuses are still big enough to make it suicidal to take ten neutrals before receiving a decent whale bonus. perhaps reducing the open sea regions to n1 might help.

Okay by me. Let's settle on some names and I'll post a revised version.