INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Metsfanmax]

However, in a game with no VT (vanilla town - roles with no night actions), we might be better off going to night time without lynching anyone.

I don't agree with this reasoning because even in a game with VT, there's still a substantial risk of lynching a town power role when you mislynch. That's just one of the things we all accept as a possible risk of a D1 lynch. I think in this game it's not substantially different. Even though we will be guaranteed to lynch someone who has some sort of role, we have to assume that the chance that it's an important role (cop, doc, etc.) is approximately the same as in other games. And in that case the reasoning for a D1 lynch still holds.

[Metsfanmax]

Ragoo in my "surely he can't be scum again?" list.

I'll just point out that this shouldn't be a thing. It's like in roulette in which the previous rolls have no incidence on the next one so you can't go "it's been xx for yy times, surely it's time for it to turn to zz"

I'm guessing Skoffin's comment was mostly a joke. With that being said, not all mods choose roles randomly, some actually do pick the scum players to be ones they can trust to be decent players (since a game with poor scum ends up being pretty unbalanced). So actually we shouldn't necessarily be surprised if someone plays scum well many times and a particular mod decides that person should be scum in their game.

[dakky21]

While I agree some mods might be bastard and put one person as scum all the times, I don't think that is the case here since Razor and Tokle never played any games with us here in the mafia forums. Then again, if they read any of the past games it could be possible they made Rage scum just for fun, but for the sake of the game I hope they didn't. Unless random made him a scum. Let's assume it's a normal setup and Rage has a chance to be both scum and town and let's proceed from that point.

[ZaBeast]

Have I really been scum that many times?

unvote vote skoffin

Surely, the post above is an admission of guilt

vote Ragian

I find him scummy all the time.

You say you find him scummy all the time. I read you don't find him particularly scummy this time. Has he been scum in all games you've played together or is your scum-reading just wrong with him?
Also unvote. Not sure who I'll vote for, still considering my options, but my joke-vote has been on aage long enough

[jfm10]

Have I really been scum that many times?

unvote vote skoffin

Surely, the post above is an admission of guilt

vote Ragian

I find him scummy all the time.

You say you find him scummy all the time. I read you don't find him particularly scummy this time. Has he been scum in all games you've played together or is your scum-reading just wrong with him?
Also unvote. Not sure who I'll vote for, still considering my options, but my joke-vote has been on aage long enough

I've only played 3 games before this one and he beats on players really well.He hasn't started yet this game for it but it's coming.

[ZaBeast]

Vote jfm10

So basically you want him out because he's a good player

[jfm10]

I am sure that everyone outside DBD is a good player.

[ZaBeast]

Did you really think I was offended because you only aknowledged ragian was good? That's absolutely not the point of my vote (I'm average anyways)
As town, you'd have no reason particular reason to want someone out based on his skill necause you don't know if he's with or against you. As scum (or 3rd party), you (generally) know who's with you and who's against so eliminating the good players on the opposing team makes sense.

[jfm10]

this is a Tokie game and we are fish.There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.

[dakky21]

this is a Tokie game and we are fish.There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.

D1 roleclaim?!! out of nowhere? No one except me accused you and you say you have a protective role..... i'm mean, really, wtf... why claim anything... especially that role which can protect someone... if you are town, you are the first target for scum now since they know something about you.

Unless you're trying to blur our minds, but I'm wondering why you didn't say you had the investigative role then, that's 100 times more intriguing.

Unless #2 you're scum and going the safe route, protective role is enough for town not to lynch you and enough for scum not to kill you... Vote on you stays.

[Razorvich]

I keep forgetting it has to be red too. It's been too long since we played lmao.

vote chapcrap

Also forgot to "Unvote" first

[Metsfanmax]

this is a Tokie game and we are fish.There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.

D1 roleclaim?!! out of nowhere? No one except me accused you and you say you have a protective role..... i'm mean, really, wtf... why claim anything... especially that role which can protect someone... if you are town, you are the first target for scum now since they know something about you.

Unless you're trying to blur our minds, but I'm wondering why you didn't say you had the investigative role then, that's 100 times more intriguing.

Unless #2 you're scum and going the safe route, protective role is enough for town not to lynch you and enough for scum not to kill you... Vote on you stays.

Bold move trying to lynch the claimed doc role. Bold move.

[dakky21]

Mets, you are aware that if jfm turns out to be scum you're next? Bold move.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets, you are aware that if jfm turns out to be scum you're next? Bold move.

And what if he doesn't?

[chapcrap]

I keep forgetting it has to be red too. It's been too long since we played lmao.

vote chapcrap

Also forgot to "Unvote" first

You have Ragian listed as voting for two different people. I think his vote is on me.

jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.

[chapcrap]

Actually, you have his vote on 3 different people... Is that on purpose? That seems like more than an oversight...

I keep forgetting it has to be red too. It's been too long since we played lmao.

vote chapcrap

Also forgot to "Unvote" first

You have Ragian listed as voting for two different people. I think his vote is on me.

jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.

[Razorvich]

Pre-coffee errors fixed

[ZaBeast]

I really don't know what to think about that soft-claim at L-7
From my limited experience, I get strong mitch vibes from jfm.
If I remember correctly, in the hobbit mafia, mitch basically soft-claimed for no real reason saying he was an "important town role" or something like that and ended up being scum. Given the timing of this soft-claim I don't see any reason to consider jfm as more town-aligned because of it so I'm leaving my vote on him.

this is a Tokie game and we are fish.There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.

D1 roleclaim?!! out of nowhere? No one except me accused you and you say you have a protective role..... i'm mean, really, wtf... why claim anything... especially that role which can protect someone... if you are town, you are the first target for scum now since they know something about you.

Unless you're trying to blur our minds, but I'm wondering why you didn't say you had the investigative role then, that's 100 times more intriguing.

Unless #2 you're scum and going the safe route, protective role is enough for town not to lynch you and enough for scum not to kill you... Vote on you stays.

I disagree with the fact he became scum #1 target, because if he lives through N1 we'll surely get caught in an endless WIFOM argument of whether the scum team let him live so he would be lynched or because he is scum and should be lynched.

jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.

How can anyone counter-claim? There are a lot more protective roles than just doc, so anyone coming out with his role wouldn't add to jfm's case, and would actually make it easier for him to claim without being counter-claimed because he could just pick up a different fake claim if needed.

[TX AG 90]

Has it been decided whether we are going for a D1 Lynch or not?

How does that work Real Time wise? Will we just wake up one day and Razor has sent us into nighttime or as long as we are continuing towards a solution, he'll keep it at D1?

[BuJaber]

unvote, vote chapcrap

[Ragian]

I agree with dakky that a no lynch vote doesn’t help, because we will be in the same position on D2.

Also blacky you didn't answer my question. Why is it suspicious that Tobikera knows so much about sea creatures?

Truth is it isn’t... but it’s D1 and I pointed half a finger half heartedly and just for the (unfunny?) bants!
Sorry I must have missed ure Q earlier.

vote Ragian
Simply for being the hammer that just lynched me in DBD

Humm...is that a fifth "joke vote" on me? It's starting to get serious. Which is fair. However, passing it off as a joke doesn't really fly when we get so close to claiming territory. IGMEOY, blacky.

You should've defo joined DBD for mafia!

How are you on claims?

Obviously!

I don't understand the question.

Wanted to know your position on getting claims D1 now that you didn't want a lynch D1. But then you changed your beliefs :shrug:

Uhh...jmf joins the bandwagon. Here's hoping that I'm not the only one taking notes.

However, in a game with no VT (vanilla town - roles with no night actions), we might be better off going to night time without lynching anyone.

I don't agree with this reasoning because even in a game with VT, there's still a substantial risk of lynching a town power role when you mislynch. That's just one of the things we all accept as a possible risk of a D1 lynch. I think in this game it's not substantially different. Even though we will be guaranteed to lynch someone who has some sort of role, we have to assume that the chance that it's an important role (cop, doc, etc.) is approximately the same as in other games. And in that case the reasoning for a D1 lynch still holds.

I have underlined a very important modal verb. I think it's weird that you completely ignored where I said that I'm for a D1 lynch. The stuff that you just took out of context was an admission that if I were to agree to a no lynch, it would have to be in a non-VT game. You're being very selective with what you pound on me for.

Also, I'd like to clarify that I'm decent at best. I'm not a good player. I get lucky sometimes, though

Ugh...then jmf soft-claimed. He's fairly new to the game, so don't go all "CC Mafia Forum" on him. It doesn't help anything. I haven't seen him soft-claim in any of our other games as far as I remember. Anyway, a protective role could be loads of roles, so thinking that the doc has been outed is jumping to conclusions. However, him jumping on my bandwagon and then soft-claiming doesn't look good. What's going on, jmf?

@TX, you have to decide for yourself by reading the arguments for and against a D1 lynch:
- For: We start establishing voting patterns and players' reasonings, we learn something about the setup through the role. If we don't lynch, we know little more D2 than we knew D2 (this is my stance).
- Against: Presumably, we have a lot of town power roles that can investigate, etc. during N1 and yield productive results for us to use D2. We don't lynch any town roles (which is most likely D1).

[Skoffin]

Jm could be anything, and the "I'm a protective role" means shit. There are plenty of protective role types out there, and there is likely more than one in the game and let's not forget the 'interwebbing' part of the notice.
In any case; jm had literally no reason to soft claim anything out of the blue like that, and scum probably have their own protective role - so possibility wise he could be just claiming his own scum role.

I don't think Ragoo is scum, for the record.

Vote jm

[Pikanchion]

I just got back from work and I'm not in the right frame of mind for thinking so after only skimming most of what happened in the last day or two I'll just Unvote:Ragian for now in light of him being more than halfway to a lynch when there's lots of stuff that bears discussing at a glance. I'll read through properly after I've slept.

[pershy]

unvote

I'm unvoting Rage too as my vote was in the joke phase. I was surprised actually to log on and see so many votes on him but I suppose we are well into D1 and we do need a lynch on D1 for info, especially w so many players so let's discuss. Still early days tho.

[aage]

this is a Tokie game and we are fish.There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.

What made you think that revealing this was a good idea? Because it isn’t.

Unvote, vote Chap for lowkey fishing for counterclaims to a vague roleclaim. FoS Mets for seemingly instantly believing jfm is the doc.