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[CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Completed May 17

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Start Oct 14

Postby IcePack on Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:33 pm

JPlo64 wrote:
InnyaFacce wrote:
rockfist wrote:It’s really quite simple. There are clan rules that apply at all times and there are clan league rules that apply only to clan league. The one clan rule applies at all times. Think of it like federal law applies no matter what state you are in, but a state law of Michigan does not apply in Ohio. Federal law would apply in both Michigan and Ohio.

I know the differences between State Laws and Federal Laws - my wife is a Lawyer
You did not give any proof to any infraction that has occured

This is stated in the Rules for CLX (see Rules spoiler of first post of this thread):
All the CC and Clan rules will be in effect, unless stated otherwise in this post.


The 1 Clan rule is a general Clan Department Rule.
It is repeatedly referenced throughout here: Clan Guidelines

The 1 clan rule was violated.
The 1 can rule is a general clan rule.
The rules for CLX implies that the general clan rules are in effect.
Thus, a CLX violation occurred.


I think Innyafacces is trying to say that because no games were played and it was fixed, there was no violation.

If someone invites someone to too many games and then realizes it and fixes it before the deadline and the game doesn’t start there would never be a violation there.

Same with this case, it was caught and handled prior to any infraction actually taking place after the deadline. Those games never started and it was fixed prior to Round 1 deadline. So like other potential violations, fixed before they were required to be correct.
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[CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread

Postby InnyaFacce on Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:12 am

So does this mean that Mike22 cannot participate in any games during CLX or this will cause an infraction to Band of Brothers
IcePack wrote:
JPlo64 wrote:
InnyaFacce wrote:
rockfist wrote:It’s really quite simple. There are clan rules that apply at all times and there are clan league rules that apply only to clan league. The one clan rule applies at all times. Think of it like federal law applies no matter what state you are in, but a state law of Michigan does not apply in Ohio. Federal law would apply in both Michigan and Ohio.

I know the differences between State Laws and Federal Laws - my wife is a Lawyer
You did not give any proof to any infraction that has occured

This is stated in the Rules for CLX (see Rules spoiler of first post of this thread):
All the CC and Clan rules will be in effect, unless stated otherwise in this post.


The 1 Clan rule is a general Clan Department Rule.
It is repeatedly referenced throughout here: Clan Guidelines

The 1 clan rule was violated.
The 1 can rule is a general clan rule.
The rules for CLX implies that the general clan rules are in effect.
Thus, a CLX violation occurred.


I think Innyafacces is trying to say that because no games were played and it was fixed, there was no violation.

If someone invites someone to too many games and then realizes it and fixes it before the deadline and the game doesn’t start there would never be a violation there.

Same with this case, it was caught and handled prior to any infraction actually taking place after the deadline. Those games never started and it was fixed prior to Round 1 deadline. So like other potential violations, fixed before they were required to be correct.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Start Oct 14

Postby JPlo64 on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:42 am

IcePack wrote:
I think Innyafacces is trying to say that because no games were played and it was fixed, there was no violation.

If someone invites someone to too many games and then realizes it and fixes it before the deadline and the game doesn’t start there would never be a violation there.

Same with this case, it was caught and handled prior to any infraction actually taking place after the deadline. Those games never started and it was fixed prior to Round 1 deadline. So like other potential violations, fixed before they were required to be correct.

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread

Postby Lindax on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:37 am

InnyaFacce wrote:This does not clear up anything

My interruption of the Rule - correct me if I am wrong
A player who played for one clan in CL10, cannot play for another clan in CL10
If Mike22 had played a game in CLX for Manifest Destiny
Would not be eligible to play in any CLX games for Band of Brothers or any other Clan for the remainder of CLX
This would be an infraction according to the Rules as shown in the CLX Main Thread

I do not see how games that are not CLX related as playing for 2 Clans during CLX
If there is an infraction for games that are not involved with CLX
This RULE needs to be changed to include every scenario that would constitute an Infraction
Once again My interruption of the Rule - there has been no infraction from either Clan

Active War, Retribution vs Band of Brothers - Sept 2018. Started 2018-10-18 Ended 2018-10-19. Played over 2 Rounds.
Mike22 is active in games for Band of Brothers
Complete War, RL7 - Rd15 - MD vs FOED. Started 2017-06-18 Ended 2017-07-27. Played over 1 Rounds.
This is the last Active Clan War that Manifest Destiny was involved in [ Mike22 - was not active in any games ]
So where / how exactly did this infraction occur ?


I’m sorry it didn’t clear it up for you. I was polite enough to answer you, however, I see no need to continue discussing this with you.

The rules are clear, my answer was clear and your “interruption” of the rule has no bearing on this issue. Nor do I need to provide proof of an infraction to you, a player from another clan from another division.

An infraction was noticed, it was discussed with the Second Division player and clans involved. They accepted the fact that there was an infraction and corrected the situation. End of story. I suggest you move on.

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[CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread

Postby InnyaFacce on Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Lindax wrote:I’m sorry it didn’t clear it up for you. I was polite enough to answer you, however, I see no need to continue discussing this with you.

The rules are clear, my answer was clear and your “interruption” of the rule has no bearing on this issue. Nor do I need to provide proof of an infraction to you, a player from another clan from another division.

An infraction was noticed, it was discussed with the Second Division player and clans involved. They accepted the fact that there was an infraction and corrected the situation. End of story. I suggest you move on.

Lx

Actually Lindax you have an obligation to answer any questions that are Clan related
You are a member of the Clan Department ...
Which makes you a Service Representative for the Clan Department
It has no relevance if I am a Clan Member or Clan Member from a different Division or if I am a Non Clan Member
I am a Member of this website that asked a question that was Clan related
I have every right as does any other member of this website to know what the infraction was for ...
If you are going to post that an infraction has occurred
You have an obligation as a Member of the Clan Department to explain the details when/ if someone asks

I suggest that you explain the details of this infraction in full - then we all can move on
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:06 pm

That's not true actually. If a clan is given an infraction it is between the Clan Dept and the clan in question. Nobody else has a literal right to know what happened.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread

Postby TeeGee on Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:11 pm

InnyaFacce wrote:
Lindax wrote:I’m sorry it didn’t clear it up for you. I was polite enough to answer you, however, I see no need to continue discussing this with you.

The rules are clear, my answer was clear and your “interruption” of the rule has no bearing on this issue. Nor do I need to provide proof of an infraction to you, a player from another clan from another division.

An infraction was noticed, it was discussed with the Second Division player and clans involved. They accepted the fact that there was an infraction and corrected the situation. End of story. I suggest you move on.

Lx

Actually Lindax you have an obligation to answer any questions that are Clan related
You are a member of the Clan Department ...
Which makes you a Service Representative for the Clan Department
It has no relevance if I am a Clan Member or Clan Member from a different Division or if I am a Non Clan Member
I am a Member of this website that asked a question that was Clan related
I have every right as does any other member of this website to know what the infraction was for ...
If you are going to post that an infraction has occurred
You have an obligation as a Member of the Clan Department to explain the details when/ if someone asks

I suggest that you explain the details of this infraction in full - then we all can move on


None of the site volunteers are under ANY obligation and if you think otherwise you are misinformed.
Site volunteers do what they want for the site, not what you request or demand. If they do answer your requests or demands, then that is their choice.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby rockfist on Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:00 pm

Someone is attempting to fill a void I think...
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby IcePack on Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:05 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:That's not true actually. If a clan is given an infraction it is between the Clan Dept and the clan in question. Nobody else has a literal right to know what happened.


It is helpful for that info to be made public, that way everyone can know how the new team is enforcing / interpreting rules. Saying they have a right is probably a bit extreme, but it certainly is relevant for other clan leaders to know.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:10 pm

IcePack wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:That's not true actually. If a clan is given an infraction it is between the Clan Dept and the clan in question. Nobody else has a literal right to know what happened.


It is helpful for that info to be made public, that way everyone can know how the new team is enforcing / interpreting rules. Saying they have a right is probably a bit extreme, but it certainly is relevant for other clan leaders to know.

I agree and never said otherwise.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby BIG_John on Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:20 pm

I think it would be helpful if everyone knew what happened so that the other clans learn from it and don’t make the same mistake. It seems like people want to keep it a secret so nobody can learn from it. That is how I see it but as someone said it is his choice to let everyone know. But I think we make mistakes it should be put out there so the other clans don’t make the same mistakes. Anyway good luck to all the teams in CLX!
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Keefie on Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:01 am

When is an infraction not an infraction ???

It would appear that another type of infraction has been introduced. The clans who received infractions for missing deadlines, received their first warnings. The clans who received infractions for the 'One Clan Rule' did not, and these infractions appear to fall outside of the disciplinary process. So it would certainly be helpful if this could be explained to the clan leaders & contacts of both divisions.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby MagnusGreeol on Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:31 am

All infractions from any clan or division should be posted and explained out in open and for all to see, The ruling and action should be posted for all to see, This isn't suppose to be an arm wrestle, Its the duty of the people who posted the rules to inform all what's going on?


If legit questions are answered then no need to make this more than it is, We aren't looking for CIA or FBI files, Just full answers to questions related, Otherwise suspicion of held back info comes into play? Everything should be out in open!
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:18 pm

MagnusGreeol wrote:All infractions from any clan or division should be posted and explained out in open and for all to see, The ruling and action should be posted for all to see, This isn't suppose to be an arm wrestle, Its the duty of the people who posted the rules to inform all what's going on?

If legit questions are answered then no need to make this more than it is, We aren't looking for CIA or FBI files, Just full answers to questions related, Otherwise suspicion of held back info comes into play? Everything should be out in open!

All infractions (for now) are posted in each division's thread. They provide a general synopsis of what happened. They are publicly viewable.

However, the specifics of the infractions are only discussed between the parties involved. If you would like to know more about the specifics, consider contacting one of the parties involved.

Of course, anyone is always welcome to PM the CD team with any questions you may have. Just remember however, that if you were not involved in an infraction, you may not be told the specifics of that infraction.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:37 pm

People always gonna feel entitled, it's basically human nature.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Lindax on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:43 pm

Keefie wrote:When is an infraction not an infraction ???

It would appear that another type of infraction has been introduced. The clans who received infractions for missing deadlines, received their first warnings. The clans who received infractions for the 'One Clan Rule' did not, and these infractions appear to fall outside of the disciplinary process. So it would certainly be helpful if this could be explained to the clan leaders & contacts of both divisions.


Ok, this is a clear question/post I can answer to and try to explain.

To me an infraction occurs when a player or a clan breaks a rule. Or a violation of a rule. Clans and players do not receive infractions, they commit them. What they receive is a response and possibly an action taken by whomever enforces the rules. In CLX that would be me, the TO. These actions can be a variety of things, including the sending of a reminder or a warning, taking away points or privileges, disqualifying a player or clan, etc.

Now, when we look at the “Rules and Infractions” section of the OP, one of the things we find is this:

Infractions relating to deadlines and the use of maps, settings and players:

  • 1st Infraction: The offending clan will receive a warning.
  • 2nd Infraction: The offending clan will receive a final warning.
  • 3rd Infraction: The offending clan will receive a 1 point deduction from their overall points total.
  • 4th Infraction: Same as 3rd infraction.
  • 5th Infraction: The offending clan will also receive a 2 pt deduction from their overall points total.
  • 6th infraction: Expulsion from the competition. All results annulled.
“Use of players” here refers to the amount of games a player can be in or play per match or round.

A player or clan breaking the 1 clan rule falls under the below chapter:

Other Infractions, Offenses, Issues:

  • Consequences for infractions that do not have a specific penalty assigned, and any other offenses and issues, will be determined on a case by case basis, depending on the severity, repetitiveness, and possible effects on the results of this tournament. The consequences can vary from, but are not limited to, a warning to the remaking of a game, forfeits or point deductions, removal of privileges or clan contacts, expulsion of a player, or disqualification of a clan.

In this case a player from a clan participating in CLX was found to be in 2 clans, thus breaking the 1 clan rule. Apart from that he was in to ongoing games for 1 clan and had joined 2 games for the other clan. So, either way he was breaking the 1 clan rule. The fact that the 2 games for the other clan had not started yet is immaterial in my point of view. He joined those 2 games with the intent to play them and he was in 4 games for 2 different clans.

The action I took was sending a PM to all parties involved, asking them what was going on and pointing out that the player and the clan were in violation of the 1 clan rule. It all turned out to be a mistake and the issue was resolved quickly. Then I had to decide what further action to take and after considering all factors I decided to give the player a warning. The second clan, which added him to their member list while he was already a member of the other clan, received a reminder about the 1 clan rule.

I register all issues and actions taken during CLX and decided to also register it in the OP of the division thread.

So far CLX. However, the 1 clan rule applies clan-wide and not only for the tournament. The clan department, and specifically the department leader Dave, can decide to apply other sanctions to the player and the clan in question.

I decided to explain the above because the apparent confusion. Don’t expect me to do this every time there is an infraction of the rules. Traditionally on CC infractions and possible sanctions are dealt with between Team CC and the offender(s).

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:47 pm

Thanks for that Lx, very informative. Now I fully understand how an offending clan can receive punishment. However, one thing I don't understand is how an offended clan can receive a punishment? Is this possible?
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Lindax on Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:13 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:Thanks for that Lx, very informative. Now I fully understand how an offending clan can receive punishment. However, one thing I don't understand is how an offended clan can receive a punishment? Is this possible?


Anything is possible. However, my answer in general would be : "No".

Knowing you I will have to ask for specifics though. What is "an offended clan"? What exactly are you talking about?

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:55 pm

Lindax wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:Thanks for that Lx, very informative. Now I fully understand how an offending clan can receive punishment. However, one thing I don't understand is how an offended clan can receive a punishment? Is this possible?


Anything is possible. However, my answer in general would be : "No".

Knowing you I will have to ask for specifics though. What is "an offended clan"? What exactly are you talking about?

Lx


I suspect it was an attempt at humour...:)
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby Keefie on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:01 pm

Lindax wrote:
I decided to explain the above because the apparent confusion. Don’t expect me to do this every time there is an infraction of the rules. Traditionally on CC infractions and possible sanctions are dealt with between Team CC and the offender(s).

Lx


Thank you for your detailed explanation.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - Round 1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:51 am

Lindax wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:Thanks for that Lx, very informative. Now I fully understand how an offending clan can receive punishment. However, one thing I don't understand is how an offended clan can receive a punishment? Is this possible?


Anything is possible. However, my answer in general would be : "No".

Knowing you I will have to ask for specifics though. What is "an offended clan"? What exactly are you talking about?

Lx

I don’t really know but thanks.
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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - R2 Oct 28

Postby Lindax on Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:24 pm

Round 2 starts tomorrow, Sunday, October 28 y'all.

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - R4 Nov 25

Postby Lindax on Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:19 am

Round 4 starts today folks!

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Re: [CLX] Clan League 10 - Main Thread - R4 Nov 25

Postby IcePack on Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:28 pm

IcePack wrote:For future ease / rule modifications, I would suggest when posting the games here

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=228800&start=50

That clans also be required to post what password they used during game creation. That way clans that are trying to use players who have been away for 30+ days can get them to join games without having to PM the other clan and sit around waiting for responses that may/may not make them late. Or standardize the password for all clans for the event so everyones using the same thing in the rare instance its needed.
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