WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:35 am

Oh my god, I was gone for over a month and this thread still didn't die. Somebody get some Holy water or something.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:51 am

Samus wrote:Oh my god, I was gone for over a month and this thread still didn't die. Somebody get some Holy water or something.

No don't - the map is finally going somewhere again (hopefully to the final forge subforum pretty soon)

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:18 pm

RobinJ wrote:
Samus wrote:Oh my god, I was gone for over a month and this thread still didn't die. Somebody get some Holy water or something.
No don't - the map is finally going somewhere again (hopefully to the final forge subforum pretty soon)

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 37 times.......

This map has already been in Final Forge before at least once. As I recall the most recent abandonment included the author deleting everything, I don't even want to go through all the pages to figure out how that got worked out. I wouldn't make any bets on it being quenched anytime soon, but maybe I'm just a pessimist.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:08 pm

so why post here? just go somewere else and ignore this thread

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:34 pm

Samus wrote:
RobinJ wrote:
Samus wrote:Oh my god, I was gone for over a month and this thread still didn't die. Somebody get some Holy water or something.
No don't - the map is finally going somewhere again (hopefully to the final forge subforum pretty soon)
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 37 times.......

This map has already been in Final Forge before at least once. As I recall the most recent abandonment included the author deleting everything, I don't even want to go through all the pages to figure out how that got worked out. I wouldn't make any bets on it being quenched anytime soon, but maybe I'm just a pessimist.

Come on mate. This map deserves AT LEAST final forge status. There are pathetic and unplayable maps that have reached final forge. This is a flawed diamond of a map...flawed yes, but still a diamond!

It just needs some fine tuning and it will be quenched soon.

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:29 pm

lt_oddball wrote:the bonus for stalingrad area is 1 too much:
3 border lands to defend and 5 internal lands (divided by 3 =) yields 1.
So a bonus of 4 is appropriate.

besides; having the Stalingrad zone means you'll have 1/3 of the 3 cities bonus points also in your pocket for "free".

Also Von Leeb Area should get one extra :
2 border lands and 3 internal lands should yield 2 + 3/3 = 3 in total.

Never mind the "historical" importance of the city of Stalingrad (actually overrated military speaking) or lands like China in the Far east Map, etc..
In the end we are playing a board game with a collection of placement dots.
Only that mathematical number should count in addressing the correct balanced number of bonuspoints per region.

What?? The bonus is fine. I don't even understand your objections by the numbers, not to mention that I disagree with your assessment of why values should be assigned.

Steel Panzer · Post by **Steel Panzer** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:25 am

lets hope qwert will fix all the problems and make the large one so we can see it in the forge!

*waiting and praying *

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:31 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:Come on mate. This map deserves AT LEAST final forge status. There are pathetic and unplayable maps that have reached final forge. This is a flawed diamond of a map...flawed yes, but still a diamond!

Hey, I'm not taking anything away from the map, but 125 pages of history tells me not to get my hopes up.

It just needs some fine tuning and it will be quenched soon.

Didn't someone say that about 80 pages ago?

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:52 am

Steel Panzer

lets hope qwert will fix all the problems and make the large one so we can see it in the forge!

*waiting and praying *

Like i say many times,first i must finish small version of map,there is no point of working in large version if small map have some problems.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:33 am

qwert wrote:
Steel Panzer

lets hope qwert will fix all the problems and make the large one so we can see it in the forge!

*waiting and praying *

Like i say many times,first i must finish small version of map,there is no point of working in large version if small map have some problems.

What are the current problems? Only the labels?

lt_oddball · Post by **lt_oddball** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:49 am

qwert wrote:It oddball i dont understand what you mean?
Having only 1 or 2 stared terittory you dont get nothing,you must have all 3 stared terittory for extra bonus.

I was pointing to the region Stalingrad (now yielding a bonus of 5 extra armies) not the city/dot stalingrad.

By owning the region Stalingrad (which should yield only 4 extra armies) you have already the benefit of having one of the three cities (that would ultimately yield 3 extra armies) bonus in your zone.

Thus this Stalingrad Zone is already blessed with an extra feature (as are the moscow and Leningrad zones) whereas the german zones do not have that.

This is fine, but don't add another bonus extra army to that zone, which is unfair and unbalanced.

...
Imagine it like this:
Were the three cities bonus a normal "island" on the map in the Baltic sea with three dots with three external lines warranting its possession the 3 extra armies, then it is fair, but now you decide to move these three island dots IN the bonuszones of Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad.
Thus improving the russian zone posessors' chances without them having done extra effort for it.

So the player lucky enough to start with a better disposition in the russian zones is now (as it stands) in the advantage.

So how to balance this ?
Maybe by substracting in such a zone a 1 internal lands parameter?
Like Stalingrad zone with 8 lands of which 3 borders yields normally 3 + rnd((8-3)/3) = 4 extra armies
Becomes 3 + rnd((8-3-1)/3) = 4 extra armies
..this case the result is the same , but you see what I mean...

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:38 pm

you confusing me.Please dont mess country bonuses with extra bonuses.When you posess 1 stared treittory you dont have any benefit if you dont posess two more, its like all other terittory but when you possess all 3 then you get extra bonuses.

So the player lucky enough to start with a better disposition in the russian zones is now (as it stands) in the advantage.

Yes if play 3 player,but with 4,5,6 players you must very big luck to get all russian zones,because these zones is very big. I play world map with 6 players and some guys get from start Finland,sweden and norvege, and these is luck, so what we can do.Here i dont belive that some guys can get all rusian country from start, and if some have very big luck to get all stared terittory then he have luck and can play lotery.

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:42 pm

qwert, I think your small map is done. You havent been getting any feedback so maybe start work on the large. Even if you do have to make changes to the small map they will only be little things.

Im not sure if you read this before so:

Teya wrote:Something else that is bothering me is the Tula and Oryol labels in Moscow Army. They are both quite close to each other and the border, and I think The Oryol label might benefit being moved a little bit to the left.

Once you get both maps up I dont think Andy will be able to avoid forging your map. After some of his recent efforts, I think he could quench your map straight away, because your map is alot better than any of the recent ones.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:22 am

My god Teya we finally agree on something

But im not sure what Qwert is waiting for?!?!

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:41 am

Yes hulmey, Its a miracle.

I think qwert is waiting for an official nod of approval about his small map so he can do the large. Andy did ask for the large map so maybe he cant fault the small map. Who knows. Either way, there is no feedback on the small map so I think qwert should do the large.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:37 am

Teya wrote:
Something else that is bothering me is the Tula and Oryol labels in Moscow Army. They are both quite close to each other and the border, and I think The Oryol label might benefit being moved a little bit to the left.

Yes i read,but i wait to get more feedback,now i move oryol and tula.
People want to remove small sea label,so i will remove, now its empty,but i still think that with sea labels is better.
If Andy tell that my small map finish,then i will know what i must work in large image,XTML i can work with final forge status.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:40 am

Here map without small sea labels,and i move oryol like teya say.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:41 am

Andy you can remove poll.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:30 pm

what about move the legend up a bit (half way in between where it is now and the top) i think that might solve the issue i have at the top

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:47 pm

boberz wrote:what about move the legend up a bit (half way in between where it is now and the top) i think that might solve the issue i have at the top

May as well I suppose but it could spoil the effect of the star. Is the XML all sorted and everything else all sorted? If so, this could enter final forge before page 130

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:45 pm

RobinJ wrote:
boberz wrote:what about move the legend up a bit (half way in between where it is now and the top) i think that might solve the issue i have at the top
May as well I suppose but it could spoil the effect of the star. Is the XML all sorted and everything else all sorted? If so, this could enter final forge before page 130

This is a good suggestion that I hadn't considered before... Ideally for me the label for Von Leeb army should be parallel to WWII.

Pther than that, great update Qwert.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:08 pm

boberz

Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 629

Posted: 14 Jun 2007 18:30 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what about move the legend up a bit (half way in between where it is now and the top) i think that might solve the issue i have at the top

What issue? I never know that position of legend have some issue.Its these a joke to prolonge work in these map,if not you must have very good and logical explanation for these new issue.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:13 pm

Guiscard
This is a good suggestion that I hadn't considered before... Ideally for me the label for Von Leeb army should be parallel to WWII.

Sugestion like"he must be parallel with these" can not be apply if you dont have some logical explanation why these must be parallel.

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:53 pm

Its looking good qwert. I definantly like it without the sea labels.

The only problem I can see with the legend is the boxes arent all the same distance apart. For example: the hold all stars box is closer to the starlingrad army box than the moscow army box is to the starlingrad army box. I hope I didnt overcomplicate that.

As for waiting for Andy to say the small map is done, He cant really say that. Even in final forge you might have to make little changes to the small map. I really get the impression that Andy wants to forge the map but wants to see the large map first.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:16 pm

Well i dont think that these present any problem, these is extra bonus and i put to be smaler distance.

As concern of Andy,well i waith 6 month,and i have patience,for me now its better to finish visualy first small,and then large, and to stay XTML for final forge, Andy will also be satisfy with these,then will be easy for hem to quench these map.