a Question about the bigWham

[Extreme Ways]

Just to share my point of view, I've spotted that trying to attack and put a player under 12 terr or 15 (in maps which have normal "drop bonus") have lower statistic.

Where did you track your data? I'm heavily inclined to disregard any dice comments (nowadays) as confirmation bias.

[Swimmerdude99]

This one time, I rolled 6's. It was neat. I enjoyed that. This other time, I rolled 1's. That was lame.

I had the same thing happen to me once. Are we using the same cheats?

[gannable]

I get the feeling there are times where I'm just destined to lose a game, no matter what. The other player could take turn 1 on classic, suicide all his drops and still win without effort.

Other times, I just take a flaccid dump on another player without any effort involved.

The only (theory if you want to call it), is that the dice are predetermined in individual games, rather than truly "random".

Other than that, I don't really care. Just a gripe if anything. Sites a lack luster lately.

I love your GIF.

And regarding the dice, I get the same feeling.

There's certain games where I get crapped on by the dice in the first round and I catch a break at any point the rest of the way.

Then, there's games where I get favorable dice and its an easy win.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dice are predetermined.

[BrutalBob]

Sad to say but I am with Caffeine on this.

Publish the details of the new dice algorithm. Of course some people will be critical. If your method is solid, stand by it. Defend it. Keeping it hidden is worse. It makes everyone think you have something to hide.

Maybe its not truly random, maybe the guys here that worked on it arent the best mathematicians around. You can only do your best but refusing to release details is not the answer.

Anyway, I think what most people want, perhaps more than true randomness is some sense of reasonableness where the results match what is expected. I have trouble comprehending randomness.

And on the auto renew. Thats a fucking bullshit scam and BW ought to be ashamed. I submitted a ticket about it and was told by BW it was clearly stated in the terms of service (at about the 10,000 word mark when I found it), but mentioning it on the actual invoice/ payment screen didnt seem like a reasonable thing to do

[jusplay4fun]

Isn't random supposed to be random and not always following what is expected?

Remember how the science of Stat and Probability is based on wanting to understand gambling? My recollection is that dice odds fueled initial "research" and study; but it may have been cards. Oh, wait, Risk HAS BOTH items of Random.

And the science says we can predict LIKELIHOOD of an event, but not the EXACT event.

JP

quote="BrutalBob"
"Anyway, I think what most people want, perhaps more than true randomness is some sense of reasonableness where the results match what is expected. I have trouble comprehending randomness. "

Sad to say but I am with Caffeine on this.

Publish the details of the new dice algorithm. Of course some people will be critical. If your method is solid, stand by it. Defend it. Keeping it hidden is worse. It makes everyone think you have something to hide.

Maybe its not truly random, maybe the guys here that worked on it arent the best mathematicians around. You can only do your best but refusing to release details is not the answer.

Anyway, I think what most people want, perhaps more than true randomness is some sense of reasonableness where the results match what is expected. I have trouble comprehending randomness.

And on the auto renew. Thats a fucking bullshit scam and BW ought to be ashamed. I submitted a ticket about it and was told by BW it was clearly stated in the terms of service (at about the 10,000 word mark when I found it), but mentioning it on the actual invoice/ payment screen didnt seem like a reasonable thing to do

[DirtyDishSoap]

Well, since our search function is next to worthless now, can someone fill me in on the auto renew? I don't remember seeing it was way back in the day.

[DoomYoshi]

I have always told people that if they have a few very bad rolls then to stop playing and come back later because the dice are streaky as f*ck. Apparently that was the case with the 50k file and it's still the case now. You even mention streaks yourself.

Streaks are a normal part of random number sets. Of course, you might say there are too many streaks, but to do that you'd have to collect some stats and check. You're smart enough to know that subjective opinions are useless in this regard.

Unfortunately there really isn't a way to test that. Set theory concepts of random set allow for a person to roll nothing but 6s their entire life and it still be random. We need to wait for type theory to get a bit more robust in this field before we can test something like that.

[2dimes]

Well, since our search function is next to worthless now, can someone fill me in on the auto renew? I don't remember seeing it was way back in the day.

As this is a fantastic opportunity to vivobump one of the threads containing this information I will let Thorthoth do his thing.

[iAmCaffeine]

uninformed rubbish zzzzzz

Ya sure ok buddy!! Good effort!!

Where did you track your data? I'm heavily inclined to disregard any dice comments (nowadays) as confirmation bias.

You're heavily biased and generally in the minority with most of your opinions that you've voiced lately. You also break clan sitting rules as a clan director. Your posts are irrelevant here.

Sad to say but I am with Caffeine on this.

Not sure if I'm happy or sad but I really don't see a good reason to not share the information to back up your word. It's like "hah yeah you pay to play here but we're not going to give you any details or actual reassurances that this game is remotely balanced or holding of integrity".

The correct votes are winning I see.

[narutoserigala]

I have always told people that if they have a few very bad rolls then to stop playing and come back later because the dice are streaky as f*ck. Apparently that was the case with the 50k file and it's still the case now. You even mention streaks yourself.

Streaks are a normal part of random number sets. Of course, you might say there are too many streaks, but to do that you'd have to collect some stats and check. You're smart enough to know that subjective opinions are useless in this regard.

Unfortunately there really isn't a way to test that. Set theory concepts of random set allow for a person to roll nothing but 6s their entire life and it still be random. We need to wait for type theory to get a bit more robust in this field before we can test something like that.

It is true that randomness is merely a convenient assumption & no one has Godlike information to truly know if it is so or not. So, this question is not particularly interesting to me.

However,there is a way forward, that is to track, then test if the deviations from the norms in kill/ loss ratio are significant especially in the early game stage .Overtime, a scatter plot of such deviations can be compiled. You can check my post for more information.

Regarding the data, any player can track his own battle outcomes per CC dice stats and this information is also available to CC as well, of course.

For example, as the cornerstone behind my strategy and tactical planning, I track these dice stats turn by turn. Especially in the more recent games, I have developed a systematic way to it and logged these information into my self notes. I would highly recommend to anyone who wants to have a better understanding of the game & there is nothing stopping you from doing the same. Even this information is available to CC per their own dice tracking stats. If there is someone willing to process these data, please let me know.

[Thorthoth]

Well, since our search function is next to worthless now, can someone fill me in on the auto renew? I don't remember seeing it was way back in the day.

As this is a fantastic opportunity to vivobump one of the threads containing this information I will let Thorthoth do his thing.

No. DDS needs to get over his neurotic/puritanical vivobumping virginity.
Get in there Dishy, and start bumping!

[Extreme Ways]

uninformed rubbish zzzzzz

Ya sure ok buddy!! Good effort!!

Where did you track your data? I'm heavily inclined to disregard any dice comments (nowadays) as confirmation bias.

You're heavily biased and generally in the minority with most of your opinions that you've voiced lately. You also break clan sitting rules as a clan director. Your posts are irrelevant here.

Sad to say but I am with Caffeine on this.

Not sure if I'm happy or sad but I really don't see a good reason to not share the information to back up your word. It's like "hah yeah you pay to play here but we're not going to give you any details or actual reassurances that this game is remotely balanced or holding of integrity".

The correct votes are winning I see.

Ya sure ok buddy! Good effort!!

You have surpassed your trolling efforts with this one. You also broke site rules as a user. Your posts are irrelevant here.

[King_Herpes]

[iAmCaffeine]

uninformed rubbish zzzzzz

Ya sure ok buddy!! Good effort!!

Where did you track your data? I'm heavily inclined to disregard any dice comments (nowadays) as confirmation bias.

You're heavily biased and generally in the minority with most of your opinions that you've voiced lately. You also break clan sitting rules as a clan director. Your posts are irrelevant here.

Sad to say but I am with Caffeine on this.

Not sure if I'm happy or sad but I really don't see a good reason to not share the information to back up your word. It's like "hah yeah you pay to play here but we're not going to give you any details or actual reassurances that this game is remotely balanced or holding of integrity".

The correct votes are winning I see.

Ya sure ok buddy! Good effort!!

You have surpassed your trolling efforts with this one. You also broke site rules as a user. Your posts are irrelevant here.

Yeah but when I've broken rules I've had warnings and/or bans. You broke the clan sitting rules in our clan war for zero consequence. Like are you really stupid enough to try and argue your way out of that one?

Your other comment doesn't make sense.

[Lord Arioch]

Well i gladly will pay 30 bucks each year to be here
Still i seem to have better Dice in fall than in spring ... but hey i dont really care!
Great site great woek great thread

[WILLIAMS5232]

Nothing pisses me off more than whittling down 8 armies against a single then getting so pissed off I attack 2v1 and lose even tho I knew better. Then I get a bonus busted 3v2

[Dukasaur]

Nothing pisses me off more than whittling down 8 armies against a single then getting so pissed off I attack 2v1 and lose even tho I knew better. Then I get a bonus busted 3v2

Yes. That enrages me the most. When I get so pissed off about losing I start doing stupid shit and losing even more. Makes me want to beat someone to death.

[Thorthoth]

Nothing pisses me off more than whittling down 8 armies against a single then getting so pissed off I attack 2v1 and lose even tho I knew better. Then I get a bonus busted 3v2

Yes. That enrages me the most. When I get so pissed off about losing I start doing stupid shit and losing even more. Makes me want to beat someone to death.

And thus, wisdom prevails in the end.

[BoganGod]

So I've had a brief forum hiatus to recharge the batteries and stop dreaming of of the days when the forum had verve, sass, gravitas at times, and a variety of interesting posters. Imagine my surprise on my return. Coffee Kid has joined the BNP and discovered the poll function! Happy times. In OZ there is a vote on gay marriage. Llama move to the UK it is already legal there, you and coffee kid shouldn't spend another night apart. Hugs and Kisses Uncle Bogan

- ps - With dice, the fix is in. Literally.

[riskllama]

i would turn that kid's ass to burger...

[Symmetry]

How do you mean that bigWham can improve the dice... The dice can not be improved, its correct or wrong.

The situation is more complicated than that. There's a wide range of approaches to generating random numbers. Some approaches (like random.org) use actual randomness in the environment to seed their random numbers; most approaches use what's called pseudo-random number generation, where a known mathematical formula is used to generate the random numbers, but the resulting numbers are so close to random as to be effectively indistinguishable for many or most purposes. The quality of the pseudo-random number generation can vary greatly from simple methods to more complex methods.

Why not simply be transparent? I know I've suggested this before- but having a sub-forum for dice still seems like a good idea.

[Tiberius Maximus]

Over the years I have supplied to King Achilles some stats related to my dice by tracking them per game and per player that seem (at least as to my dice) that they were skewed in an improbable way - e.g. when already winning a game I get great dice round after round which effectively raises my dice roll average and battle outcomes that is not reflective of the the whole. I also have pointed out the improbability with these stats of real dice rolling this way. I did get a response and since I asked more than twice got a response again but in each case it was a muted, very diplomatic response that simplistically stated CC did not control the dice and had no settings it could change for any one individual player.

Well some of the reasons I still doubt that claim is that several years ago I believe I accidentally got into the admin settings and was able to see chat between the admins deciding who to pick on and who to help while also making fun of those they did not like. Moreover, I also saw dice setting tabs that could be used to change the dice outcomes. When I inquired about this event, I was told it was all a April Fools joke. However, I pointed out that first when there is already so much negative feelings about this subject it did not seem wise nor funny to make fun of such a sensitive topic. In addition, I informed KA etc that no one who I knew in CC could verify seeing any of the same things as I saw which begs the question of why would just I see it if it was meant to be a CC April Fools joke - I have no special standing in CC, nor any reason to be singled out for such jokes - I am but a small bit player on this site not prone to negative or sarcastic chat against anyone or CC itself.

Furthermore, I have repeated pointed out to KA and other admins that the dice stats are woefully inadequate at best and extremely unrepresentative (on how a player is doing dice wise) at worst - why? because they are not letting a player see how he/she does against a particular player on a game by game basis, the number of battle outcomes are way to small to be truly representative of the overall average (whether it be the mean or medium average) and a player cannot see any patterns over the long course of play. When I have requested (which I have done repeatedly) that CC change the way stats are provided including but not limited to expanding at the very least the number of battle outcomes to say 100 battles or better over a one year period, and add a running dice scoreboard against not just foes but on maps I was informed that it was too costly - I am sorry but with so much money being taken in in this site and so many of us wanting greater transparency it just seems to me that the real reason is that there is more to the story of dice manipulation than the admins want to reveal. This site collects a lot of money from its members and, as such, there can be real consequences to it and those involved if such is the case.

I await your response.

Tiberius Maximus

[IcePack]

TM I remember the instances you mention because those were April fools jokes back in the day from the lack era iirc?
I don't know your interactions with others etc and I know other raised concerns about exactly what you are saying (in bad taste etc) but it was moved ahead with anyway.
Those definitely were not "real". Not sure you'll believe me since I'm part of "the team" but for at least the first one I believe I was either part of the public and or a new mod but yeah, not actual modifiers that are used.
Hope that helps.
IcePack

[TheForgivenOne]

TM I remember the instances you mention because those were April fools jokes back in the day from the lack era iirc?
I don't know your interactions with others etc and I know other raised concerns about exactly what you are saying (in bad taste etc) but it was moved ahead with anyway.
Those definitely were not "real". Not sure you'll believe me since I'm part of "the team" but for at least the first one I believe I was either part of the public and or a new mod but yeah, not actual modifiers that are used.
Hope that helps.
IcePack

I'm relatively sure I was modding around that time as well. Definitely not real.

[BrutalBob]

Still some room for improvement in the dice algorithm.

I have been getting this shit all day