Noted Xroads [ka]

[Dukasaur]

This is cleared.

KraphtOne, I'd be careful in playing my games if I were you rather than continue to play quick moves and give us reasons to doubt if you are indeed deliberately trying to lower your score or not.

Something tells me the Kraphty One has made a New Year's Resolution to take his turns very, very carefully come January 1st.

[KraphtOne]

This is cleared.

KraphtOne, I'd be careful in playing my games if I were you rather than continue to play quick moves and give us reasons to doubt if you are indeed deliberately trying to lower your score or not.

I got 2 speeds baby, lightning and stop...

[Lindax]

Preparing for another bit of manipulating the monthly score boards?

Lx

Guess who's leading "Most Improved" and second in "Monthly Leaders" this month?

Lx

[benga]

LOL noted, thx for Heads up!

[PurpleViper]

If krapht get's punished why doesn't xroads?

[Extreme Ways]

If krapht get's punished why doesn't xroads?

Because nobody did the digging yet, and xroads appears to be playing better in his lost games. Less weird stuff.

[Extreme Ways]

Actually, I looked up some classic games and the log seems completely normal. I dont know fi he rolled 3v3 a lot, but apart from no focus on Oceania there's not really an easy case.

[bobdakota]

If krapht get's punished why doesn't xroads?

Because nobody did the digging yet, and xroads appears to be playing better in his lost games. Less weird stuff.

Of course he is playing better. It is January and he wants to win in January. We wanted to lose in Dec.

All of this can be found here - https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... scoreboard

October - start 1788 end 2143
Nov - Start 2143 end 1847
Dec start 1847 end 1146 - low of 914

January 1st (one day)- Start 1146 end 2749. Finished 86 games. Won no Battle Royals.

Has a player ever went from 1146 to 2749 (up 155%) in one day!!!

Games finished on Jan 1st (found here using last activity search). https://www.conquerclub.com/player.php? ... mit%5D=100 using last activity.

1. https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17092898 - Xroads takes 22 hours to make a move in this game he is winning - 2016-12-30 12:33:31 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-12-31 10:23:09 - xroads got bonus of 1 troops added to Ed (Main Gift)


2. https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17084937 - This game is is active on the 30th. And he misses a turn when he can win on Dec 31st. Notice of he made turn in the first game and third game during his missed turn in this game. He could have won on the Jan 31, but he decided to miss a turn so the win in January.
2016-12-29 18:05:18 - Incrementing game to round 10
2016-12-30 15:24:02 - xroads received 2 troops for holding Oceania
2016-12-30 23:05:29 - Incrementing game to round 11
2016-12-31 23:05:29 - xroads missed a turn

3. https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17092901 - He is also slow playing this game. 23 to take his turn and it shows he was active during his missed turn in game two.
2016-12-30 11:38:21 - Incrementing game to round 8
2016-12-31 10:11:24 - xroads got bonus of 1 troops added to Ben (Main Gift)

Games finished on Dec 31st

https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17100303 - He lost this game and played 6 rounds when he is inactive in the other games. Notice his last move is to deploy 9 on Cairo and not attack. Green is getting the Ocean bonus, so that move was a way to lose the game quickly.
2016-12-30 21:25:42 - Game has been initialized
2016-12-30 21:25:42 - xroads has a score of 1231.

2016-12-30 22:54:58 - xroads received 3 troops for 6 regions
2016-12-30 22:55:02 - xroads played a set of Johannesburg, Moscow, and Havana worth 6 troops
2016-12-30 22:55:06 - xroads deployed 9 troops on Cairo
2016-12-30 22:55:09 - xroads ended the turn
2016-12-30 22:55:09 - Incrementing game to round 7

[Donelladan]

@bobdakota :

delaying wins and speeding loss is allowed. If xroads managed to slow down all his win until the next month and took all the loss in the previous month, he made a good job.
Note, missing turn to prolong the game is forbidden but can't be proven - he may have missed only because he was delaying too much but intended to play it. Unless made on a large scale you won't have a case on it.

Kraph1 was found guilty because he apparently intentionally lost games. Unless you prove he lost games in purpose there is no case ( playing bad when game is already lost like your last example is normal ).

[bobdakota]

@bobdakota :

delaying wins and speeding loss is allowed. If xroads managed to slow down all his win until the next month and took all the loss in the previous month, he made a good job.
Note, missing turn to prolong the game is forbidden but can't be proven - he may have missed only because he was delaying too much but intended to play it. Unless made on a large scale you won't have a case on it.

Kraph1 was found guilty because he apparently intentionally lost games. Unless you prove he lost games in purpose there is no case ( playing bad when game is already lost like your last example is normal ).

He was called out on 12/27/2016 and he started playing better. Look at the numbers below. A record of 11-73 when mainly playing 1v1 would never happen with an experienced player. No way could a steak of bad dice produce that many losses.

Record for the day

January 1st, 79-8

Dec 27, 5-25
Dec 26, 4-20
Dec 25, 0-12
Dec 24, 0-8
Dec 23, 1-4 (0-4 without clan win)
Dec 22, 1-4 (0-4 without clan win)

Dec 22 - 27 - 11 wins - 73 losses.

[Extreme Ways]

I agree, however if you simply read the log in the games he played you can't make a case of intentionally throwing games like I was able to with Krapht.

[bobdakota]

I agree, however if you simply read the log in the games he played you can't make a case of intentionally throwing games like I was able to with Krapht.

I bet if you spent some time looking at these games - Dec 22 - 27 - 11 wins - 73 losses. You would find all the evidence you need.

Why don't you look into those games? Is it because you like xroads and don't like Krapht? Seems like quite a double standard to me. My 5 year old could win 15% of 1v1 games just from luck. It's not that hard to see he was doing the same as Krapht...

[bobdakota]

Actually, I looked up some classic games and the log seems completely normal. I dont know fi he rolled 3v3 a lot, but apart from no focus on Oceania there's not really an easy case.

Well here is another https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17088229 - round 3 durrr takes Europe. xroads has both Astana and Novosibirsk. Xroad deploys on Novosibirsk and goes south to Hong Kong. If he was playing normal he would have deployed on Astana and tried to take Moscow which looks like it only had 3 troops.

2016-12-26 13:50:04 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-12-26 13:56:51 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 13:56:58 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Berlin
2016-12-26 13:57:01 - durrrTgirl assaulted Moscow from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:06 - durrrTgirl assaulted Istanbul from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:08 - durrrTgirl assaulted Cairo from Istanbul and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl reinforced Moscow with 2 troops from Nairobi
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:07:05 - xroads received 3 troops for 11 regions
2016-12-26 14:07:09 - xroads deployed 3 troops on Novosibirsk
2016-12-26 14:07:10 - xroads assaulted Hong Kong from Novosibirsk and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:12 - xroads assaulted Bangkok from Hong Kong and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:14 - xroads assaulted Mumbai from Bangkok and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - xroads ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 5 troops for holding Europe
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 14:15:05 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Anchorage
2016-12-26 14:15:08 - durrrTgirl deployed 5 troops on Dubai
2016-12-26 14:15:12 - durrrTgirl assaulted Mumbai from Dubai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:15 - durrrTgirl assaulted Bangkok from Mumbai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:18 - durrrTgirl assaulted Jakarta from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:22 - durrrTgirl assaulted Hong Kong from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:27 - durrrTgirl assaulted Astana from Moscow and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:40 - durrrTgirl assaulted Manila from Hong Kong and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl reinforced Reykjavik with 2 troops from Dakar
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils

[bobdakota]

You can't deny this one. I am not cherry picking games. Almost every game played during his Dec 22 - Dec 27 when he went 11-72, he is playing horrible. This is just a great example.

https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17084939

Up to round 4 it is pretty even. Xroads had 4 cards.
Round 5 - no attack
round 6 - no attack
round 7 - no attack
round 8 - no attack
round 9 - cashes cards.

He had a green set after round 4 and he decided not to use them for 4 rounds!!!!!!!!!!! Even if he was having bad dice for 4 rounds, you don't save a set for that long if you want to win.

Rounds 5 - 8 he doesn't attack, so he gains no cards. (2 seconds between deploying troops and ending turn is not enough time to attack). He has a set for 4 rounds and doesn't use them. He deployed on Buenos Aries for 4 rounds in a row which is not where the action is.

Round 9 the game is out of hand. So he finally cashes and attacks. Notice how round 9 he put no troops on BA, yet he is able to go on a run out of BA. If he was having bad dice for 4 rounds he would not have enough guys to go on that run. He takes Lima which is a neutral, but doesn't take San Paulo. Either he has San Paulo and is stacking behind a neutral and his own guy for 4 rounds or green had San Paulo, and he decides to hit the neutral at Lima instead of taking green. Either way very poor play and he is trying to lose.

Update - Round 13 green takes San Paulo from neutral, so rounds 4-8 xroads was stacking on Buenos Aries while Lima and San Paulo are neutral territories. First time players don't even play that bad.

[PurpleViper]

Thanks for the digging, still think this case is really smelly

[jcmagno]

Actually, I looked up some classic games and the log seems completely normal. I dont know fi he rolled 3v3 a lot, but apart from no focus on Oceania there's not really an easy case.

Well here is another https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17088229 - round 3 durrr takes Europe. xroads has both Astana and Novosibirsk. Xroad deploys on Novosibirsk and goes south to Hong Kong. If he was playing normal he would have deployed on Astana and tried to take Moscow which looks like it only had 3 troops.

2016-12-26 13:50:04 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-12-26 13:56:51 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 13:56:58 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Berlin
2016-12-26 13:57:01 - durrrTgirl assaulted Moscow from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:06 - durrrTgirl assaulted Istanbul from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:08 - durrrTgirl assaulted Cairo from Istanbul and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl reinforced Moscow with 2 troops from Nairobi
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:07:05 - xroads received 3 troops for 11 regions
2016-12-26 14:07:09 - xroads deployed 3 troops on Novosibirsk
2016-12-26 14:07:10 - xroads assaulted Hong Kong from Novosibirsk and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:12 - xroads assaulted Bangkok from Hong Kong and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:14 - xroads assaulted Mumbai from Bangkok and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - xroads ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 5 troops for holding Europe
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 14:15:05 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Anchorage
2016-12-26 14:15:08 - durrrTgirl deployed 5 troops on Dubai
2016-12-26 14:15:12 - durrrTgirl assaulted Mumbai from Dubai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:15 - durrrTgirl assaulted Bangkok from Mumbai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:18 - durrrTgirl assaulted Jakarta from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:22 - durrrTgirl assaulted Hong Kong from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:27 - durrrTgirl assaulted Astana from Moscow and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:40 - durrrTgirl assaulted Manila from Hong Kong and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl reinforced Reykjavik with 2 troops from Dakar
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils

If you know how to play this game why only have 1300 points?

...maybe points dumping??

[Extreme Ways]

Actually, I looked up some classic games and the log seems completely normal. I dont know fi he rolled 3v3 a lot, but apart from no focus on Oceania there's not really an easy case.

Well here is another https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17088229 - round 3 durrr takes Europe. xroads has both Astana and Novosibirsk. Xroad deploys on Novosibirsk and goes south to Hong Kong. If he was playing normal he would have deployed on Astana and tried to take Moscow which looks like it only had 3 troops.

2016-12-26 13:50:04 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-12-26 13:56:51 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 13:56:58 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Berlin
2016-12-26 13:57:01 - durrrTgirl assaulted Moscow from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:06 - durrrTgirl assaulted Istanbul from Berlin and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:08 - durrrTgirl assaulted Cairo from Istanbul and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl reinforced Moscow with 2 troops from Nairobi
2016-12-26 13:57:37 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:07:05 - xroads received 3 troops for 11 regions
2016-12-26 14:07:09 - xroads deployed 3 troops on Novosibirsk
2016-12-26 14:07:10 - xroads assaulted Hong Kong from Novosibirsk and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:12 - xroads assaulted Bangkok from Hong Kong and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:07:14 - xroads assaulted Mumbai from Bangkok and conquered it from durrrTgirl
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - xroads ended the turn and got spoils
2016-12-26 14:14:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 5 troops for holding Europe
2016-12-26 14:14:59 - durrrTgirl received 4 troops for 14 regions
2016-12-26 14:15:05 - durrrTgirl deployed 4 troops on Anchorage
2016-12-26 14:15:08 - durrrTgirl deployed 5 troops on Dubai
2016-12-26 14:15:12 - durrrTgirl assaulted Mumbai from Dubai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:15 - durrrTgirl assaulted Bangkok from Mumbai and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:18 - durrrTgirl assaulted Jakarta from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:22 - durrrTgirl assaulted Hong Kong from Bangkok and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:27 - durrrTgirl assaulted Astana from Moscow and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:40 - durrrTgirl assaulted Manila from Hong Kong and conquered it from xroads
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl reinforced Reykjavik with 2 troops from Dakar
2016-12-26 14:15:58 - durrrTgirl ended the turn and got spoils

If you know how to play this game why only have 1300 points?

...maybe points dumping??

Ah, the ad hominem attack. If you want to defend your tribemate, please add to the discussion rather than personal attacks.

[JBlombier]

So this case has been noted, but not closed? I'm afraid I can't be bothered to look into it deeply, but I got a hunch you guys can completely ignore if you wish.

I think xroads got the idea to manipulate the score in a somewhat 'illegal' way somewhere along the run of his tremendous amount of games. To be hounest, I'd be tempted to do that as well at some point. But I think xroads has had the same epiphany as I hypothetically had, once it became clear that it actually takes quite some effort to keep track of games you gotta lose fast, win slow, etc.
So the case looks fishy, because there might be some evidence along the road, I can only agree. Still, he found out that this kind of play is actually one of the worst ways to spend the precious time you have on this earth and he chose to leave it behind.

This is a very speculative text without reading the topic, but it'd be nice if it was 75% accurate. It wouldn't surprise me!

- JBlombier

[xroads]

wow,

you really have a lot of time on your hands.

If you look through every single game I played in December, you can see I tried to win every single one of them. The one you mentioned there was no way to come back from. If I am getting outdropped, and he has a huge advantage in troops I count it as a loss and move on.

It has been ruled time and time and time again that a player can play at any speed he wants. Did I play my winners slower? Well yes I did. Did I play my loosers faster? Why yes I did. This has been ruled acceptable month after month after month. So unless there is a change in the rules, then there is no issue here. I hope they are changed, but you cant change them retroactively. If you look, you will find dozens of players that play winners slower at the end of the month. The reason I stand out is I played something like 400 games last month, well above my norm.

I started something like 50 classic sunny games. If I was actually trying to loose, I would of lost the 15 games I played against new recruits. Instead I welcomed them to conquer club and beat them like I should have.

17100302
17100300
17094898
17092891
17091866
17091865
17091266
17090705
17090704
17090701
17088694
17088693
17088692
17088542
17088540
17088539
17088228
17088227
17088226
17088225
17087640
17087636
17080241
17080240


Now if I was point dumping, wouldn't I have lost to the lowest score players possible?

Oh, and I probably took more then 10,000 turns last month. I bet 9950 were moves that shows I was trying to win every game. I know you probably study every turn for 30 minutes and NEVER make a wrong move. And in 10,000 turns, I missed maybe 20 at the very most.

[xroads]

evaluating the facts for this case, and I do respect the points from all those who have defended the accused. I also believe that the accused are both one of the few solid players of the website. However, what can not be denied are the games mentioned in this report:
SHOW

If there weren't any sort of game manipulation here, then there was at least an exploitation of when the games ended for the sole purpose of getting in the top ten monthly scoreboard. Even though there is no rule in "slowing" or quickly playing your turns, it's so easy to take control of how a game can be played out. It does look shady but still, for immediately comparing this with a past case involving a scheme that was done in a massive scale is still incomparable and the details of each case are different. Betiko simply wanted to catch up but to suddenly play several games with one player in one day and coincidentally winning many of them just in the nick of time - does look fishy. I strongly advise that for anyone who wants to catch up or improve their ranking on the monthly scoreboard, play with different people and play your games as honestly as one can.

No one is going to be removed or replaced from the monthly scoreboard out of this but this report should serve as a warning for the accused not to play like in those games again.
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[bobdakota]

17100302
17100300
17094898
17092891
17091866
17091865 - finished in Jan
17091266 - finished in Jan
17090705 - finished in Jan
17090704 - game finished in Jan
17090701 - game finished in Jan
17088694 - the guy played once and then deadbeated
17088693 - the guy never played
17088692 - the guy never played
17088542 - finish in Jan
17088540 - You lost this one
17088539 - guy never played. Kicked out
17088228 - you lost this one
17088227 - you lost this one
17088226 - this guy - Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:44 pm
17088225 - you lost this one
17087640 - I'll give you this
17087636 - The guy never played
17080241 - The guy never played
17080240 - the guy never played


Now if I was point dumping, wouldn't I have lost to the lowest score players possible?

.

Thanks for the further evidence. Of the 25 games listed 1 was a legit win to a new player in Dec when you were dumping points..

12 of the games finished in Jan when you were trying to win.
4 of those games you lost.
7 of the games the other got kicked from missing turns
1 game against player who joined 2012


So your record is even worse if you take out the deadbeats. Dec 22 - 27 - 7 wins - 73 losses. Less than 10% when playing 1v1.

[bobdakota]

If you know how to play this game why only have 1300 points?

...maybe points dumping??

Not intentional point dumping. I quit a year ago because of RL. I had a bunch of auto enroll tournaments that I could not cancel. Dec 2016, I came back to check things out during the holidays and won a lucky BR or I would be a lot lower.

[Extreme Ways]

I have to agree that point dumping is impossible to prove here. Xroads used mechanics that have earlier been ruled as "allowed". I looked into some games to see if there's easy proof of really throwing games, but at least the log doesnt show that in most games. I couldnt make a case if he only obviously threw in 2/15 games. Maybe it's worth looking into holding hostage, but atm I cant be arsed to.

[Donelladan]

Thanks for the further evidence. Of the 25 games listed 1 was a legit win to a new player in Dec when you were dumping points..

12 of the games finished in Jan when you were trying to win.
4 of those games you lost.
7 of the games the other got kicked from missing turns
1 game against player who joined 2012


So your record is even worse if you take out the deadbeats. Dec 22 - 27 - 7 wins - 73 losses. Less than 10% when playing 1v1.

Well, you seems to think it means he was throwing games in December.
To me it means he played all the game the same, but he played the loss faster to have them in december and play the win slower to have them in january. And that is allowed.

@EW - I doubt xroads would to smthg as dumb as holding hostage ^^ really no need to check it

[bobdakota]

Thanks for the further evidence. Of the 25 games listed 1 was a legit win to a new player in Dec when you were dumping points..

12 of the games finished in Jan when you were trying to win.
4 of those games you lost.
7 of the games the other got kicked from missing turns
1 game against player who joined 2012


So your record is even worse if you take out the deadbeats. Dec 22 - 27 - 7 wins - 73 losses. Less than 10% when playing 1v1.

Well, you seems to think it means he was throwing games in December.
To me it means he played all the game the same, but he played the loss faster to have them in december and play the win slower to have them in january. And that is allowed.

@EW - I doubt xroads would to smthg as dumb as holding hostage ^^ really no need to check it

FFS - Look at this one game https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17084939 - He has a set after round 4, but doesn't play them until round 9. Who would play that way????