Cheat & Abuse complaint approval

[Kotaro]

Well, the thing with approval from the hunters is, if they're on and looking at the case why not just solve it right there? Why wait for it to be posted in. Seems like a waste.

...

Because hunting someones IP down, looking through their gameplay, and then checking them out could take a long ass time?

And lance, if it's made so other players besides the OP and mods can't post in it, you will either never get PM'd or your will have way too many to go through.

And then lance will inform them what PM abuse is, and what the punishments for that are.

I honestly think the current is the best way, it can be improved, but it's the most logical in my opinion. Other players can continue to help out with cases, or even solve them(if it's not a real case i.e. "foe and rate").

Or users can spam, troll, and flame a thread so bad that the hunters have to spend time going through the thread to punish the damn trolls, instead of going through and solving the actual case, wasting their time and letting potential cheaters keep going longer.

Just make a punishment for multiple frivolous reports and massive amounts of spam, obviously flaming too. I have seen several cases in which the OP does not include any evidence and just says "too good for a newb! and look at his friends!!!" and they end up all being from different countries and taking turns at the same time(which may or may not have been presented by a player, usually is).

And I've seen though same reports, only half the time, they're right. Making a "frivolous report" can also be a completely correct report, and the person is actually a multi who knows how to use AOL and their proxy addresses (not hard in the least), but their gameplay is suspicious enough that the person thinks they're cheating. That won't stop 20 users from coming by and posting how wrong the guy is, based on no evidence of their own, and troll the OP of the thread.

Changing the whole way the C&A forums works would completely ruin it.

Not really, it would actually improve it, disallowing spam while still allowing reports to be made to the higher ups.

If it's changed to "approval" and for some reason, as soon as it's presented it's not checked, and posted in the new C&A what would be the difference? And if the current is such a problem, just delete the forum and leave e-tix, because that's all the other option really is.

Yes, move the entire forum to where only half the users know where it is. Much more helpful.

Edit: Maybe for, excessive C&A abuse just ban them from that forum. So, if they hi-jack the thread or over-spam or flame, just kick them from C&A.

... Surprising, I can still find something terrible in your post, even after not being shocked by the rest of it. Terrible.

[Strife]

First, and most important. This is my opinion, it's not wrong, it's you being ignorant and not understanding that.

Well, the thing with approval from the hunters is, if they're on and looking at the case why not just solve it right there? Why wait for it to be posted in. Seems like a waste.

...

Because hunting someones IP down, looking through their gameplay, and then checking them out could take a long ass time?

...

If it's a multi case, no, an IP check doesn't really take that long, in my experience it's only a few minutes at most(Depends on the software). Looking through their gameplay and checking them out wouldn't be needed seeing as other players usually check them out and look for evidence as-well.

And lance, if it's made so other players besides the OP and mods can't post in it, you will either never get PM'd or your will have way too many to go through.

And then lance will inform them what PM abuse is, and what the punishments for that are.

Or, he can just not have to deal with it in the first place.

I honestly think the current is the best way, it can be improved, but it's the most logical in my opinion. Other players can continue to help out with cases, or even solve them(if it's not a real case i.e. "foe and rate").

Or users can spam, troll, and flame a thread so bad that the hunters have to spend time going through the thread to punish the damn trolls, instead of going through and solving the actual case, wasting their time and letting potential cheaters keep going longer.

Or you can stop doing all of those things, I have never seen you actually contribute to a thread, for one who points the finger. And that is the worst hypothetical scenario ever, I doubt that would ever actually happen, players always investigate the reporter and the reported, I hardly see the mods in pursuit of someone who has not been reported for being a multi(Except soundout, by sully).

Just make a punishment for multiple frivolous reports and massive amounts of spam, obviously flaming too. I have seen several cases in which the OP does not include any evidence and just says "too good for a newb! and look at his friends!!!" and they end up all being from different countries and taking turns at the same time(which may or may not have been presented by a player, usually is).

And I've seen though same reports, only half the time, they're right. Making a "frivolous report" can also be a completely correct report, and the person is actually a multi who knows how to use AOL and their proxy addresses (not hard in the least), but their gameplay is suspicious enough that the person thinks they're cheating. That won't stop 20 users from coming by and posting how wrong the guy is, based on no evidence of their own, and troll the OP of the thread.

By a frivolous report I meant nothing of that random fairy tale you told. A frivolous report is a false one, one that isn't true and is clearly not true. I'm not talking about suspicion and possibilities. Let me use a rather current example or two, who were indeed warned, I believe. Saxitoxin(Not a direct attack just using you as a current example), he/she made several frivolous claims against people he/she clearly had a grudge against and they were a waste of moderator time. colton24(Again, not an attack, sorry if it feels like it), he/she made a few clearly false claims because people were saying he is a multi, and he/she was, I believe warned not to do that, and he/she has stopped. I'm not talking about people seeing suspicion and being wrong, I'm talking about complete falsehoods.

Changing the whole way the C&A forums works would completely ruin it.

Not really, it would actually improve it, disallowing spam while still allowing reports to be made to the higher ups.

No. Just no, that is all false. Spam will always exist with or without C&A. see, I can play that way too.

If it's changed to "approval" and for some reason, as soon as it's presented it's not checked, and posted in the new C&A what would be the difference? And if the current is such a problem, just delete the forum and leave e-tix, because that's all the other option really is.

Yes, move the entire forum to where only half the users know where it is. Much more helpful.

No, remove the forum and leave e-tix. Human's are rather resourceful, we're not as dumb as you think. I'm sure people will figure it out, they find C&A alright. And if it's really such a problem, mass automated PM from admin and auto-generated PM to new players pointing them where to report it. You seem set on this idea to change, for some odd reason, and you have yet to back up anything you have said with undeniable evidence. All you have done is say "NOEZ! I need less spamz0rz I need to do it only!" Point out your reasoning, you just made up some scenario that has never happened and possibly admitted to being a multi(?).

Edit: Maybe for, excessive C&A abuse just ban them from that forum. So, if they hi-jack the thread or over-spam or flame, just kick them from C&A.

... Surprising, I can still find something terrible in your post, even after not being shocked by the rest of it. Terrible.

... Not surprising, more irrelevant drivel from your post. Even after not being impressed by the rest of your "reasoning". Horrible.

[AndyDufresne]

So there seems to be support for the Option of only allowing users to create a topic, but no user responses, but there is also support for sticking with the current scheme.

The Multi Hunters and I'd like to see more discussion, if there are any additional thoughts on the matter.


--Andy

[Ace Rimmer]

So there seems to be support for the Option of only allowing users to create a topic, but no user responses, but there is also support for sticking with the current scheme.

The Multi Hunters and I'd like to see more discussion, if there are any additional thoughts on the matter.


--Andy

It seems that at least 75% of the follow oup posts are posts that have nothing to do with the actual complaint, so I think more moderation is needed in this forum.

I think that the idea of having a mod approve each follow up post is a bad idea. That's just a lot of work with no major improvement.

Lance and KA, how much does the work of the public help you in your work? I know King Sam used to be a monster at finding data for you, haven't noticed him posting anything lately, and nobody else sticks out as a regular C&A assistant. Would you like PMs if someone has additional data? Do you think we should add another multi hunter if the community's ability to give feedback or supporting documentation is gone?

Is it possible in PHPBB to make a public thread (so anyone can respond) in a moderated forum? Would it be possible for the accused to be able to post one follow-up post in the thread? What about editing - could the original poster edit their post even if it's approved by the mods, to say whatever they want? That could be an issue.

Jake

[lancehoch]

Or users can spam, troll, and flame a thread so bad that the hunters have to spend time going through the thread to punish the damn trolls, instead of going through and solving the actual case, wasting their time and letting potential cheaters keep going longer.

This is a big point. If there is a thread where a big name is accused of trolling or something, how often is it that 10 of their friends jump in and start to berate the OP? I have seen it happen a number of times. There are threads where everything after the second post is a flame or is someone baiting. I don't like having to send out PMs because people couldn't be civil. In a perfect world, the system as it is would work.
Approving every single post that gets made is not going to happen, it is too much work. Not letting anyone else post, while cutting down on spam does present a few problems. We have to pick the system that we think will work best.

Lance and KA, how much does the work of the public help you in your work? I know King Sam used to be a monster at finding data for you, haven't noticed him posting anything lately, and nobody else sticks out as a regular C&A assistant. Would you like PMs if someone has additional data? Do you think we should add another multi hunter if the community's ability to give feedback or supporting documentation is gone?

To be perfectly honest, yes, I do read everyone's posts, but I have to make a decision based on the information I find. Could someone be lying? Sure, it happens all the time. People have misquoted others, they have selective memory, they only show what they want us to see. We have our own tools that give us more information than regular users have access to and that is what 99% of the decisions are based on. Sure, someone can seem to be a multi, but even JR24 gets it wrong once in a while. For a multi accusation, I will look at the names given and check the information that I have about those accounts. A third party saying, "Oh, I know them from school, they would never be multis" doesn't carry any weight if the information shows otherwise. For secret diplomacy, I will look at the different games that are cited, but I will also do a search to see if there are any other games. Maybe one of the accounts has been previously busted and there are games with the first account that look fishy as well. There is a lot of information out there that we need to find ourselves. If we were to base our decisions on the people who post in the thread, then everyone here would probably have been busted already and a few multis would still be running around. Personally, I think that cutting down on who can post will greatly reduce the amount of spam and if people abuse the new system they will get warned or whatever the appropriate punishment is given their history.

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, a couple of good posts.

An example of something that could be cut down upon: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93452&start=0


--Andy

[Strife]

Hm, a couple of good posts.

An example of something that could be cut down upon: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93452&start=0


--Andy

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93521

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93460

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93495

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93484

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93433

Since we're on the topic somewhat.

[jefjef]

Hm, a couple of good posts.

An example of something that could be cut down upon: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93452&start=0


--Andy

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93521

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93460

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93495

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93484

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93433

Since we're on the topic somewhat.

[wreckead]

just ban jefjef that would cut down 90% of the useless spam......

peace.

[natty dread]

just ban jefjef that would cut down 90% of the useless spam......

peace.

QFT!

[BoganGod]

Some useful suggestions here.
A few issues that have been touched on already
- Mods don't need the extra work, they are slow enough already(yes mods I know your overworked thats why)
- A lot of multis get caught by posting stupid shit in cheating and abuse, so why remove an option for them to hang themselves

[owenshooter]

i still think people should be punished for spurious reports... this report was started about me, due to a situation the creator of the thread was not present for, but felt obligated to respond to my C&A report about the situation, by staring a report about me:

Subject: Owenshooter: Flagrant Violations of Community Guidelines

it was baseless, it was wholly personal, it was spurious. when something like this is done to a user, the person that abused the system should be given some type of punishment. the fact that this thread can be started without any serious repercussion, is troubling to me. this is an abuse of the C&A forum and should be punishable.

the black jesus has spoken and survived another false persecution...-Jésus noir

[owenshooter]

this really needs to be looked into. users file complaints, frivolous in nature, and they face no repercussions for said bogus complaint:

Subject: Owenshooter "Jesus"

here we go again...-Bj

[Dukasaur]

this really needs to be looked into. users file complaints, frivolous in nature, and they face no repercussions for said bogus complaint:

Subject: Owenshooter "Jesus"

here we go again...-Bj

The complaints are neither frivolous nor bogus. Your prancing about and masquerading as Jesus is profoundly insulting to religious people on the site, of whom there are many. It's not quite insulting enough for the complaints against you to be upheld, but it's certainly insulting enough that these complaints are understandable. One twist of the kaleidoscope and it would be judged the other way, so just count your lucky stars that it goes your way. Perhaps (and I know I'm really hoping for the moon here) you could show just a little consideration for the feelings of others and just a little sensitivity to the concerns of all those people you insult.

[Metsfanmax]

this really needs to be looked into. users file complaints, frivolous in nature, and they face no repercussions for said bogus complaint:

Do you also want repercussions for spurious posts in Suggestions?

[owenshooter]

this really needs to be looked into. users file complaints, frivolous in nature, and they face no repercussions for said bogus complaint:

Do you also want repercussions for spurious posts in Suggestions?

it isn't my suggestion, so what are you trying to imply? you find jefjef's suggestion to be spurious and frivolous in nature? listen, we all know that there isn't a mod for this section of the forum. so, what i would suggest would be, that someone actually be assigned to suggestions. i love when you pop in and try to play mod. you are literally the definition of what a Jr. Mint is... i laugh at your veiled threat, as i was not the one that started this suggestion. oddly enough, this suggestion still holds merit and i do believe there should be repercussions for bogus C&A complaints. perhaps a warning after 1 (sometimes, people may really not understand that what they are filing is not an actual complaint), and then some sort of escalating scale after that... now, go back to playing mod and let the adults have a conversation in here...-Bj

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Mets us a mod asigned to suggestions...

[Metsfanmax]

Mets us a mod asigned to suggestions...

Indeed. This forum is really the only thing I'm currently assigned to as a mod.

It takes a special kind of absurdity to think that anything will come out of bumping a 5+ year old archived thread because you feel personally attacked.