[CL7] 2nd Division (1: TOP - MVPs: Dkmaster, FreeFalling123)

[betiko]

oh crap, I'm here too late then. I wanted to add something about the leader/soldier thingy... which I don't consider banter, just an exchange of opinions.

As long as your post doesn't perpetuate the iamcaffeine/TOP row then please go ahead and post.

Well, I just meant to say that in my opinion, no one ever holds the truth on what to do on a certain turn, and if you're surrounded by mediocres that are just able to follow orders in your general/soldier perspective, you are not going to encorage teammates to weight in, or you just won't have good counter opinions to debate between teammates.
You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experieince, I think you guys are more fitted for tribe events.
The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run.

betiko,

So just because they do not run the clan the way the other clans run theirs is wrong? They have beat TNC and HH and are close to winning the second division of CL7! Sounds to me like they must be doing something right. Am I missing something. Just curious! Sounds like TOP is being crucified for being good. Anyway, have a great day everyone!

What i'm criticizing is the lesson-giver tone and how you guys like to compare yourselves to others when you are new to the scene and don t know much about the rest of the clans.
Beating tnc & hh is good, but honestly that s kind of the least to expect from your roster. Both mid level clans ( no offense to them).
Now winning the second division is a much greater achievement, although the 3-4 best team from last year moved up to 1st division and no 1st division team went to second. And the third division was merged with the second... So pretty much the lowest competition in second division from the past few years.
So yes, it s a very good start, but no, you haven t proven enough yet until we see what you guys are worth against a top 10 clan in a real 41 or 61 games war.

[PaulatPeace]

oh crap, I'm here too late then. I wanted to add something about the leader/soldier thingy... which I don't consider banter, just an exchange of opinions.

As long as your post doesn't perpetuate the iamcaffeine/TOP row then please go ahead and post.

Well, I just meant to say that in my opinion, no one ever holds the truth on what to do on a certain turn, and if you're surrounded by mediocres that are just able to follow orders in your general/soldier perspective, you are not going to encorage teammates to weight in, or you just won't have good counter opinions to debate between teammates.
You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experieince, I think you guys are more fitted for tribe events.
The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run.

betiko,

So just because they do not run the clan the way the other clans run theirs is wrong? They have beat TNC and HH and are close to winning the second division of CL7! Sounds to me like they must be doing something right. Am I missing something. Just curious! Sounds like TOP is being crucified for being good. Anyway, have a great day everyone!

What i'm criticizing is the lesson-giver tone and how you guys like to compare yourselves to others when you are new to the scene and don t know much about the rest of the clans.
Beating tnc & hh is good, but honestly that s kind of the least to expect from your roster. Both mid level clans ( no offense to them).
Now winning the second division is a much greater achievement, although the 3-4 best team from last year moved up to 1st division and no 1st division team went to second. And the third division was merged with the second... So pretty much the lowest competition in second division from the past few years.
So yes, it s a very good start, but no, you haven t proven enough yet until we see what you guys are worth against a top 10 clan in a real 41 or 61 games war.

betiko,

I have always respected you, and have believed you do not generally disparage others or become mean-spirited in your rhetoric.

I would first like to address your comments regarding how you perceive the manner in which we conduct our gameplay and battle strategy. I will reference your comments highlighted in RED above. I think you will admit you actually do not know how we operate our battle strategies in games. You are not in our clan and therefore do not have access to this information. If you choose to believe the negative remarks made by others in this thread, you would not only be naive, but mistaken! Our co-leader of TOP, MagnusGreeol as described to a degree some aspects of how we approach a battle formation. He said "You need great spot on soldiers to carry out executed plans. Leaders and Soldiers, There can't be one without the other, And TOP family has the best of both." This is true. We do have great spot on soldiers carrying out executed plans. Each member of TOP is a valued soldier, and each member carries out plans which are executed by the team as a unit. It does take Leaders and Soldiers, and TOP does have the best of both. Each member of TOP has within them the potential to be a great Leader, and each member must be a great Soldier! Every single member of TOP must be BOTH or we will not succeed! Many of our games have very experienced members in them. Some have an abundance of experienced players, and some have members with less experience. This is how we improve and how all of us become better. Every member of our clan has an equal voice and are encouraged at all times to offer ideas, suggestions and strategy input in every aspect of our clan activities and games. If you believe otherwise my friend...you are grossly mistaken!

Secondly, to say "You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experience" is UNTRUE my friend. Kindly take a closer look brother. Most of our members have significant team experience, and many have had a great deal of it! This is FACT! You are simply misinformed!

Regarding your statement "The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run." We are indeed Unlike Other Clans my friend! I know this from several vantage points. First, several of our members have been in other clans ... and have left them. They have shared with all of our family how they were treated there, and a number of dysfunctional aspects regarding how these clans were run. We have made it a policy & practice to be very different from these other clans in many, many ways. Secondly, members have seldom asked to leave TOP, although several have been removed. Yet, many new candidates come to us having heard how very different we are from other clans and wanting to join our family. Additionally...Rank of our members is NOT taken into consideration ......... regarding anything! All are treated with equal respect and all are given equal opportunity! As I said previously my friend, I have respected you......but I deeply resent your referring to some of the character and core aspects of our clan as BS! You are WRONG brother! Perhaps someday you will see it!

You seem to be pretty confident your ability to assess us as a clan. I would certainly welcome any opponent underestimating us. TNC did. HH did. Many of our opponents here in the CL 7 did. You will have your opportunity to find out eventually my friend. Once an opponent has tasted the sharp blade of The Omega Pantheon, their ability to accurately assess our skill on the battlefield diminishes significantly!

Till we meet,

Omegas Fight As One

Paul

[Keefie]

Paul,

I think it's very unfair to suggest that HH underestimated you. I researched every member of your clan to find your weak spots and with a final score of HH 18 TOP 23 we weren't that far away from a victory. You must admit that you were worried after the 1st set

K

[BIG_John]

You were close but you know close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades!

[PaulatPeace]

Paul,

I think it's very unfair to suggest that HH underestimated you. I researched every member of your clan to find your weak spots and with a final score of HH 18 TOP 23 we weren't that far away from a victory. You must admit that you were worried after the 1st set

K

Perhaps I was a little unfair. You are a good War Strategist. You certainly had a good strategy in our CL 7 Match.

As I recall..........someone lost a bet to you in our war against TNC. Whoever that was certainly underestimated us!

Paul

[MagnusGreeol]

- Can we lock this up and start another clean CL7 thread? 2 of 4 pages discussing this is getting old, No one but TOP knows its inner workings, and why do we have to explain how we operate? We will let the battlefield describe how we work.

-\MGM/-♎

[betiko]

- Can we lock this up and start another clean CL7 thread? 2 of 4 pages discussing this is getting old, No one but TOP knows its inner workings, and why do we have to explain how we operate? We will let the battlefield describe how we work.

-\MGM/-♎

no one really cares how you guys operate.... we are just discussing what you said earlier

Let me point out that Leaders alone can't win wars, You need great spot on soldiers to carry out executed plans. Leaders and Soldiers, There can't be one without the other, And TOP family has the best of both. Envy can be such a disturbing and confrontational feeling, Glad TOP doesn't have that. We like to build not tear down. GL2U Caff. & Co. ")

-PS- We are prepared for you to retort ") It is very predictable so go on ")

-\MGM/-♎

you are basically explaining how things should work in any clan I believe, not your clan. English isn't my first language, so maybe there is something I don't understand properly?
You make this remark where you are so full of yourself, but other people can't address it?

[MagnusGreeol]

- Can we lock this uBetikod start another clean CL7 thread? 2 of 4 pages discussing this is getting old, No one but TOP knows its inner workings, and why do we have to explain how we operate? We will let the battlefield describe how we work.

-\MGM/-♎

no one really cares how you guys operate.... we are just discussing what you said earlier

Let me point out that Leaders alone can't win wars, You need great spot on soldiers to carry out executed plans. Leaders and Soldiers, There can't be one without the other, And TOP family has the best of both. Envy can be such a disturbing and confrontational feeling, Glad TOP doesn't have that. We like to build not tear down. GL2U Caff. & Co. ")

-PS- We are prepared for you to retort ") It is very predictable so go on ")

-\MGM/-♎

you are basically explaining how things should work in any clan I believe, not your clan. English isn't my first language, so maybe there is something I don't understand properly?
You make this remark where you are so full of yourself, but other people can't address it?

- If you don't care, then why are you still stuck on this? Is it possible to talk about anything else, or are you going to continue quoting and remarking on the same thing over and over? Let it go Betiko, Let it go ")

-\MGM/-♎

[betiko]

looks like you are definitely too self centered to understand... It's not about TOP.
It was about an interesting discussion reagrding team games. Is it better to have 1 good leader with people followng perfectly his orders, or to have all the players from the team giving equal amount of input deciding democratically a move.

[MagnusGreeol]

looks like you are definitely too self centered to understand... It's not about TOP.
It was about an interesting discussion reagrding team games. Is it better to have 1 good leader with people followng perfectly his orders, or to have all the players from the team giving equal amount of input deciding democratically a move.

- OK thanks ") This is a good discussion! Let's move it to here

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

-\MGM/-♎

[betiko]

as if we give a damn of the general discussion forum where 90% of the people's opinion on the matter is worthless... Most don't play competitive team games and the thread would be trolled out.
Do you think you're a mod or something? if you can't stand people discussing a clan related discussion you initiated in this thread no one forces you to read it you know.
You don't need to act all defensive and like an untouched virgin. "pleaaseee mods!! erase the whole threaaad!! this is turning into a discussion about team organisation!!"

[Keefie]

looks like you are definitely too self centered to understand... It's not about TOP.
It was about an interesting discussion reagrding team games. Is it better to have 1 good leader with people followng perfectly his orders, or to have all the players from the team giving equal amount of input deciding democratically a move.

- OK thanks ") This is a good discussion! Let's move it to here

viewforum.php?f=6

-\MGM/-♎

Are you serious Magnus ? Five minutes in there and we'd have it hijacked by Owenshooter et al.

[PaulatPeace]

Congratulations to ATL for the tie in one of our matches!

Well strategized and played gentlemen!

Paul

[MagnusGreeol]

as if we give a damn of the general discussion forum where 90% of the people's opinion on the matter is worthless... Most don't play competitive team games and the thread would be trolled out.
Do you think you're a mod or something? if you can't stand people discussing a clan related discussion you initiated in this thread no one forces you to read it you know.
You don't need to act all defensive and like an untouched virgin. "pleaaseee mods!! erase the whole threaaad!! this is turning into a discussion about team organisation!!"

- Don't get bent Betiko, It was just a suggestion, Are you mad? Do all my smily faces seem like I'm being defensive? Relax, you can talk about anything you want. Ya don't have to get mad?

-\MGM/-♎

[PaulatPeace]

as if we give a damn of the general discussion forum where 90% of the people's opinion on the matter is worthless... Most don't play competitive team games and the thread would be trolled out.
Do you think you're a mod or something? if you can't stand people discussing a clan related discussion you initiated in this thread no one forces you to read it you know.
You don't need to act all defensive and like an untouched virgin. "pleaaseee mods!! erase the whole threaaad!! this is turning into a discussion about team organisation!!"

I believe it was you sir who wanted to continue the discussion about team organization!

Tell me my friend, must you always be so mean-spirited and derogatory in your remarks? Perhaps a Chill Pill would help a little. If the discussion you wished to continue is not going your way....you always have the option to simply shut the pie hole! Sometimes, at least in your case, less may be more!

Paul

[betiko]

as if we give a damn of the general discussion forum where 90% of the people's opinion on the matter is worthless... Most don't play competitive team games and the thread would be trolled out.
Do you think you're a mod or something? if you can't stand people discussing a clan related discussion you initiated in this thread no one forces you to read it you know.
You don't need to act all defensive and like an untouched virgin. "pleaaseee mods!! erase the whole threaaad!! this is turning into a discussion about team organisation!!"

I believe it was you sir who wanted to continue the discussion about team organization!

Tell me my friend, must you always be so mean-spirited and derogatory in your remarks? Perhaps a Chill Pill would help a little. If the discussion you wished to continue is not going your way....you always have the option to simply shut the pie hole! Sometimes, at least in your case, less may be more!

Paul

your friend magnus asked to lock the thread, erase it and start a new thread over because of a harmless clan related discussion he (unintentionally) started.... but I'm the one who needs a chill pill? Funny how perspective works!

[MagnusGreeol]

- ok Betiko your right about everything can we move on as friends? ")

-\MGM/- ♎

[GoranZ]

oh crap, I'm here too late then. I wanted to add something about the leader/soldier thingy... which I don't consider banter, just an exchange of opinions.

As long as your post doesn't perpetuate the iamcaffeine/TOP row then please go ahead and post.

Well, I just meant to say that in my opinion, no one ever holds the truth on what to do on a certain turn, and if you're surrounded by mediocres that are just able to follow orders in your general/soldier perspective, you are not going to encorage teammates to weight in, or you just won't have good counter opinions to debate between teammates.
You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experieince, I think you guys are more fitted for tribe events.
The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run.

betiko,

So just because they do not run the clan the way the other clans run theirs is wrong? They have beat TNC and HH and are close to winning the second division of CL7! Sounds to me like they must be doing something right. Am I missing something. Just curious! Sounds like TOP is being crucified for being good. Anyway, have a great day everyone!

What i'm criticizing is the lesson-giver tone and how you guys like to compare yourselves to others when you are new to the scene and don t know much about the rest of the clans.
Beating tnc & hh is good, but honestly that s kind of the least to expect from your roster. Both mid level clans ( no offense to them).
Now winning the second division is a much greater achievement, although the 3-4 best team from last year moved up to 1st division and no 1st division team went to second. And the third division was merged with the second... So pretty much the lowest competition in second division from the past few years.
So yes, it s a very good start, but no, you haven t proven enough yet until we see what you guys are worth against a top 10 clan in a real 41 or 61 games war.

betiko,

I have always respected you, and have believed you do not generally disparage others or become mean-spirited in your rhetoric.

I would first like to address your comments regarding how you perceive the manner in which we conduct our gameplay and battle strategy. I will reference your comments highlighted in RED above. I think you will admit you actually do not know how we operate our battle strategies in games. You are not in our clan and therefore do not have access to this information. If you choose to believe the negative remarks made by others in this thread, you would not only be naive, but mistaken! Our co-leader of TOP, MagnusGreeol as described to a degree some aspects of how we approach a battle formation. He said "You need great spot on soldiers to carry out executed plans. Leaders and Soldiers, There can't be one without the other, And TOP family has the best of both." This is true. We do have great spot on soldiers carrying out executed plans. Each member of TOP is a valued soldier, and each member carries out plans which are executed by the team as a unit. It does take Leaders and Soldiers, and TOP does have the best of both. Each member of TOP has within them the potential to be a great Leader, and each member must be a great Soldier! Every single member of TOP must be BOTH or we will not succeed! Many of our games have very experienced members in them. Some have an abundance of experienced players, and some have members with less experience. This is how we improve and how all of us become better. Every member of our clan has an equal voice and are encouraged at all times to offer ideas, suggestions and strategy input in every aspect of our clan activities and games. If you believe otherwise my friend...you are grossly mistaken!

Secondly, to say "You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experience" is UNTRUE my friend. Kindly take a closer look brother. Most of our members have significant team experience, and many have had a great deal of it! This is FACT! You are simply misinformed!

Regarding your statement "The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run." We are indeed Unlike Other Clans my friend! I know this from several vantage points. First, several of our members have been in other clans ... and have left them. They have shared with all of our family how they were treated there, and a number of dysfunctional aspects regarding how these clans were run. We have made it a policy & practice to be very different from these other clans in many, many ways. Secondly, members have seldom asked to leave TOP, although several have been removed. Yet, many new candidates come to us having heard how very different we are from other clans and wanting to join our family. Additionally...Rank of our members is NOT taken into consideration ......... regarding anything! All are treated with equal respect and all are given equal opportunity! As I said previously my friend, I have respected you......but I deeply resent your referring to some of the character and core aspects of our clan as BS! You are WRONG brother! Perhaps someday you will see it!

You seem to be pretty confident your ability to assess us as a clan. I would certainly welcome any opponent underestimating us. TNC did. HH did. Many of our opponents here in the CL 7 did. You will have your opportunity to find out eventually my friend. Once an opponent has tasted the sharp blade of The Omega Pantheon, their ability to accurately assess our skill on the battlefield diminishes significantly!

Till we meet,

Omegas Fight As One

Paul

I never thought that I would say this in my life... sorry m8 but betiko is correct.

In the last year my clan FALL faced and defeated third, second and first ranking clan on CC in a row with one game difference with all of them. And we become first on CC ranking list for the first time of our existence after those victories.
I dont know if any other clan in CC history ever faced similar challenge as we did but I understood something about clans... At the moment there is no active clan that is superior to others, and probably there will be no such in the future. The changeless that FALL overcome in the last year are probably max it can be overcome by any clan, but as I said we did it by the smallest possible margin. Judging from the results we were better by one game, but in reality it was more closer to one single move then to one game. So are we better then all those 3 clans(ACE, LHDD or TOFU)? No, we were just slightly more concentrated, calm, cooperative in the correct time.

But you can consider TOP as superior clan, until you face the one that already defeated other 'superior' clans like yours. And no worries there are handful of those atm
Have fun until you face them, but when you face them you will taste the Russian Roulette with 5 bullets Have you ever done that?

[PaulatPeace]

I appreciate what you have said GoranZ. We all could use a dose of humility from time to time.

I also appreciate the so called light hearted banter we all engage in. I categorize your talking about the success of your clan and reference to Russian Roulette with 5 bullets as that kind of exchange. My comments here and other places regarding the sharp sword of The Omega Pantheon and how we will defeat all comers to me is the same. Keefie and I respect and appreciate each other (at least I do him) and do not believe we have a problem engaging in such "light hearted banter".

Some of the discussion here has fallen to a much lower level, such as calling players cheaters. At this I take offense.

I do not take offense at your words and actually agree with much of what you have said. You do not appear to me to be the kind of individual that would resort to the ugliness and mean-spirited attitude I have seen displayed here.

Thank you for your respectful remarks!

Paul

[macken]

Hey guys, I sadden me to see this.
A few jokes is fine, but I like the respect.
We all are here playing, good times, bad dice, and all those things. It is only a game.

On the other hand, I say honestly that all my colleagues in TOP are good people and good mates. The general level of play is good and strategies of each in CC,... each chooses who want, I think. Is fine for me. No matter. Everyone does what everyone want do do in each moment. IMO.

Mags, Paul and Naruto are exceptional people. No doubt

Best for everyone!

[Donelladan]

macken, you're now a TOP member?

Nice catch TOP.

Gents,

Paul's post WILL be the last on the subject. Anymore will be removed and the thread locked.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation.

K

Just like other said before, I am wondering why you ( meaning CDs) are being so hard on this. It was a bit heated but definitely not out of line (imho). Happy that the talk was able to continue, but sad Caff can't post anymore regarding TOP.

Secondly, to say "You guys were all pretty much very good poly players with little team experience" is UNTRUE my friend. Kindly take a closer look brother. Most of our members have significant team experience, and many have had a great deal of it! This is FACT! You are simply misinformed!

betiko made a break of CC for a few month and didn't see you updated your roster.
At the beginning, meaning when you announced the creation of your clan, you had many high ranked players that did have not so much team experience, like you for example. But you recruited many players since then, and your clan count now many experienced team players, that's true. I checked your last few clan wars game, and was surprised to see some of the members you recruited, well done.

Regarding your statement "The funny thing is that TOP presented itself as a clan that "unlike other clans" doesn't take rank into consideration and all sort of BS that proved how little you guys know on how other clans are run." We are indeed Unlike Other Clans my friend! I know this from several vantage points. First, several of our members have been in other clans ... and have left them. They have shared with all of our family how they were treated there, and a number of dysfunctional aspects regarding how these clans were run. We have made it a policy & practice to be very different from these other clans in many, many ways. Secondly, members have seldom asked to leave TOP, although several have been removed. Yet, many new candidates come to us having heard how very different we are from other clans and wanting to join our family.

Now here you are a bit wrong I think.
It's not because some members left a clan for some reasons they told you that you can assume it's like that in all other clans.
I have no idea how your clan works, but I doubt there is such a huge difference with the other clans. I also doubt that you are doing stuff in your clan that no one did before ( might be, but doubtful). I believe each clan here on CC has his own way of doing thing, and they are all different. You're only one more. It is good and add to the diversity but that's it.
If you really are different, it will be evident for everyone, but you can't just declare yourself to be.

One thing in which you are definitely different, is your way of talking of your clan though

[PaulatPeace]

Thanks Brother! Agree with 99%

Nice to have another courteous and respectful reply!

Paul

[macken]

Yes Donelladan, I'm here time ago. Good people here.
Thanks for the words.

[Keefie]

Gents,

Paul's post WILL be the last on the subject. Anymore will be removed and the thread locked.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation.

K

Just like other said before, I am wondering why you ( meaning CDs) are being so hard on this. It was a bit heated but definitely not out of line (imho). Happy that the talk was able to continue, but sad Caff can't post anymore regarding TOP.

Hard ? That would have been locking the thread and ending all conversation. Since my post the conversation has continued in a very peaceful and positive manner and if iamcaffeine wants to contribute in a non inflamatory way then he's more than welcome.

[shoop76]

How is the punishment for the infractions decided. Atlantis was given a warning for 3 infractions. Twice we missed 1 invite before the deadline and a 3rd time I forgot to post the games in the thread, though they were all created and filled. We received a warning, which I understand because we were late. However, I see that ATN had 4 infractions before receiving a warning. This is not to pick on ATN, just asking for a little clarity.