[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[StorrZerg]

So if we lynch deg and he turns up town, what do we do?

He wont

at this point wing shoots the other person among the 3... regardless of his alignment. if deg is mafia, then wing is town and we have a town sided kill in the night which would be used on someone. Mitch or one of the other vts in the game are most likely. He might shoot ib. Anyone with a claimed role that can be proved would be an awful shot though

[Iron Butterfly]

So the plan is to lynch one of the two besides Wing? If they flip Town have Wing shoot the other?

So you believe all three are of equal uncertainty?

[StorrZerg]

no, im saying thats what is going to happen. the lynch is wing or deg today. i'm still waiting for both to respond to questions.

[Metsfanmax]

Is there a scenario in which one of IB and Rish isnt lying? I cant think of one.

In the scenario in which we don't trust the glasses, because gifts in this game have a less than stellar reputation for accuracy.

[StorrZerg]

Is there a scenario in which one of IB and Rish isnt lying? I cant think of one.

In the scenario in which we don't trust the glasses, because gifts in this game have a less than stellar reputation for accuracy.

specifically, LSU gifts have not shown reliability.

[Metsfanmax]

Is there a scenario in which one of IB and Rish isnt lying? I cant think of one.

In the scenario in which we don't trust the glasses, because gifts in this game have a less than stellar reputation for accuracy.

specifically, LSU gifts have not shown reliability.

I guess it's not impossible that we have a sane/insane inventor pair. But I also don't understand the results even if we assume rish is telling the truth and IB is lying. How could IB have blood on his hands if he didn't actually kill anyone?

[degaston]

@Deg unclaimed person is twr. Possibly tracker or watcher

... or possible vt, or vig, or more likely none of these. Did you read his post?

for those wanting me to claim, please select whichever one makes you feel good

tracker
watcher
vt
vig

if tracker or watcher is selected then i have negative reports to report.

now please explain how claiming any of the above could help town win?

what i am saying is that if i were scum, i would be only too happy to fake claim any of the above and that would no doubt be believed.

He's not claiming those roles, he's using them as examples of things he could claim if he was scum. Also:

the truth is, i have no evidence to offer as to who scum might be.

But you have evidence that someone else might be able to use to determine who scum is, so share.

so what are you saying? that i am a watcher or tracker and refuse to divulge who i watched/tracked? make up your mind, i thought you thought i was scum, you have voted for me.

you seem to have great difficulty understanding my posts so lets try make it clearer for you



I cannot claim right now, and when you learn of my role you will understand why

no-one, but no-one given my circumstances would claim whether they had played 100 games or if this was their first game, me not claiming is an absolute no brainer

now what bit of that are you having difficulty understanding?

perhaps aladdin could translate for you

Again, he has not claimed anything.
--------

Also please give 2 town reads, and an additional mafia read that isn't wing, with some substance.

My town reads are: benga, for his investigation of Whatsausage, and rishaed, for jailing Wing.
For me, this fits with the results from Ragian's invention, and means that benga, rishaed and myself are town, and Wing is scum (reasons given in other posts.)
This, and the bullet-proofing that benga got makes me now think that Ragian is most likely town.
IB's outing of Hotshot makes me lean town for him, and LSU's strange read of his own invention results as a justification for voting for IB makes me think that LSU is probably scum, and more sure that IB is not.

[StorrZerg]

Is there a scenario in which one of IB and Rish isnt lying? I cant think of one.

In the scenario in which we don't trust the glasses, because gifts in this game have a less than stellar reputation for accuracy.

specifically, LSU gifts have not shown reliability.

I guess it's not impossible that we have a sane/insane inventor pair. But I also don't understand the results even if we assume rish is telling the truth and IB is lying. How could IB have blood on his hands if he didn't actually kill anyone?

the invention gives opposite result? Gave a wrong result when IB used the magic 8 ball. Didn't show my role, and claimed to town who gave me the item...

[PLAYER57832]

So if we lynch deg and he turns up town, what do we do?

Lose.

[StorrZerg]

@Deg unclaimed person is twr. Possibly tracker or watcher

... or possible vt, or vig, or more likely none of these. Did you read his post?

for those wanting me to claim, please select whichever one makes you feel good

tracker
watcher
vt
vig

if tracker or watcher is selected then i have negative reports to report.

now please explain how claiming any of the above could help town win?

what i am saying is that if i were scum, i would be only too happy to fake claim any of the above and that would no doubt be believed.

He's not claiming those roles, he's using them as examples of things he could claim if he was scum. Also:

the truth is, i have no evidence to offer as to who scum might be.

But you have evidence that someone else might be able to use to determine who scum is, so share.

so what are you saying? that i am a watcher or tracker and refuse to divulge who i watched/tracked? make up your mind, i thought you thought i was scum, you have voted for me.

you seem to have great difficulty understanding my posts so lets try make it clearer for you



I cannot claim right now, and when you learn of my role you will understand why

no-one, but no-one given my circumstances would claim whether they had played 100 games or if this was their first game, me not claiming is an absolute no brainer

now what bit of that are you having difficulty understanding?

perhaps aladdin could translate for you

Again, he has not claimed anything.
--------

Also please give 2 town reads, and an additional mafia read that isn't wing, with some substance.

My town reads are: benga, for his investigation of Whatsausage, and rishaed, for jailing Wing.
For me, this fits with the results from Ragian's invention, and means that benga, rishaed and myself are town, and Wing is scum (reasons given in other posts.)
This, and the bullet-proofing that benga got makes me now think that Ragian is most likely town.
IB's outing of Hotshot makes me lean town for him, and LSU's strange read of his own invention results as a justification for voting for IB makes me think that LSU is probably scum, and more sure that IB is not.

could you give a read that is a bit more developed than "X person used power that made em town" Personally i'm actually back to leaning town on LSU, i just can't see a mafia pulling this dumb shit. A mafia would know he gives out faulty inventions, he wouldn't' have the gumption to fake the mod fucking up. Not to mention believe his shit is real. Or even made the f*ck up he did when gifting me. Sure he is naive. Not to mention how weak an attempt this is to push on IB after Wing vs deg is up, i'm almost certain a mafia LSU would be attempting to take a stand on the 2. The overwhelming majority diving on wing right now concerns me. Why now? What about earlier? Why didn't people pile on yesterday. I mean look at yourself, you made some awful push at the end of the day. Voice your concern sure, but you should have known there would have been no way to gain traction like that on someone new to the votes.

[degaston]

could you give a read that is a bit more developed than "X person used power that made em town"

Did you actually read my post?

Personally i'm actually back to leaning town on LSU, i just can't see a mafia pulling this dumb shit. A mafia would know he gives out faulty inventions, he wouldn't' have the gumption to fake the mod fucking up. Not to mention believe his shit is real. Or even made the f*ck up he did when gifting me. Sure he is naive. Not to mention how weak an attempt this is to push on IB after Wing vs deg is up, i'm almost certain a mafia LSU would be attempting to take a stand on the 2.

I don't know LSU, but I see that he's modded and made almost 5000 mafia posts, so I don't think he is naive. I agree that his post was full of "dumb shit", and that the push on IB was weak, so why would someone with his experience do that? I don't have an answer for that, but it seems deceptive, and therefore, scummy. That fact that you seem to be trying to characterize his actions as something townish seems scummy to me also.

The overwhelming majority diving on wing right now concerns me. Why now? What about earlier? Why didn't people pile on yesterday. I mean look at yourself, you made some awful push at the end of the day. Voice your concern sure, but you should have known there would have been no way to gain traction like that on someone new to the votes.

Why now? I think it's obvious that benga's post means that it has to be Wing or me lynched today. If town chooses correctly, it will eliminate one scum, and confirm 2 others as town (assuming benga is telling the truth). If someone thinks they have a case on rishaed, then they can present it, otherwise, voting for anyone else is just a distraction. As I said before, I've seen a vote change direction in 2 hours, so 39 hours was plenty of time to get off falko. I might have been wrong about Ragian (though that hasn't been proven yet), but at least I was trying. I thought it was obvious that there was no case against falko, and that was before I noticed Wing's scummy reasoning.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Storr there are too many people to keep built up reads of everyone. I will add that I believe Rizky to be town as his posts to mr appear to be genuine and are well spaced. (Compare to the IB suddenly becoming highly active last night, or Player jumping onto every wing vote) i will also add slash as the quiet mafia type manipulating from the shadows. His posts always try to twist.

Whilst in theory I shoot Rish if Deg turn up town, I am struggling with the idea of Rish being scum. Claimed jailer is not something we want to get wrong. Did this three way finder come from Rage?

[Ragian]

Aye. It's my invention.

[AladdinSane]

Is there a scenario in which one of IB and Rish isnt lying? I cant think of one.

In the scenario in which we don't trust the glasses, because gifts in this game have a less than stellar reputation for accuracy.

specifically, LSU gifts have not shown reliability.

Rong. Neither inventer's gifts have been shown too be reliabul. Teh differense is dat LSU TJ's gifts have been shown too be UNreliabul, whereas Ragian's remain essenshally untested.

LSU TJ:
8-borl - unreliabul resolt;
Swetter - backfired;
Glasses - ??? untested

Ragian:
Gun - no evidense dat teh 'woond' setting ackshually jailed Mitch, or had eny effekt wotsoever;
Bullettproof - no evidense dat Benga was shot at, theirfore no evidense dat it werked;
Alinement indickater - ??? untested

So their is no ackshual evidense day eny of Ragian's inventshuns have werked as planned. We shood simply regard dem as "Untested".


@Storr: Yore failure to reveel teh remaining two tings about yer roll, while claiming to be a vanila god now, is looking increesingly suspishus. Yeah, Deg or Wing are teh linches today, but don''t tink you can slink into teh shadows on teh bak of dat issue, kay? The alinement indickator is teh "news of teh day", but unlike others, i'm not going to tunnel just on dat. Their are sevral misteries dat need to be cleered up, and sum of dem are sentered on you (like, why you have veered so hard frum wanting to linch Wing D3/N3 to Deg D4, even tho Wing is now on teh "short list" of tree, and even tho is it plorsbul dat Wing took a shot at Benga N3).

@Mitch: Repeat - if you are jester and you know we wont linch you, wot is yore innerest in remaining in teh game? Seems to me you have an innerest in screwing Wing on yore deel if you get a chanse to hamer, becorse if he's ded, den who can kill you? I'm pretty shore Mafia wont waste a kill on you. If yer a 3P serviver pretending to be jester, it makes sense. I've asked dis qwestjun before and you have failed to anser. makes me tink I am onto sumting.

@Evrywun: Is their enywun who can verify (or destroy) Wing's "Meta" case on Deg?

Wun ting dat counts aginst Deg, in my book, is his eggsteme tutchiness wen I inadvertently got in teh way of teh case he was trying to bild aginst Ragian. Wen I speckulated about teh gun, he reacted far moor strongly than was reesonabul. Ragian got a bit annoyed too, but let it go. Den, at teh end of D3, wen Deg sprung his case on Ragian, he got reely anoyed at me and Wing fer sugesting their wasent time before teh dedline to look at linching Ragian. Way moor agro then was corled for, in both cases, imo.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Unvote Vote Deg

Honestly I wish mafia would kill me this game. As I stated before with the lack of interest from the moderators(lack of vote counts etc...) and how the main mod seems to have vanished I don't have that much interests in it. The sweater obviously didn't work as intended, but the 8 ball I would say is unproven since there is no guarantee that IB gave a true result seeing how he may be cult/scum/whatever since it is quite odd that he would have info on someone that was antitown to start the game.

I've seen it happen one time in a bastard setup and it's really not likely, but just to throw it out there the mod may be the killer and with him AWOL it would fit with the no kill. Like I said not very likely, but it wouldn't be the first time someone did do that.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

also should be noted I like modding a lot more than playing mafia except in certain themed games.

[Marashu]

@AlladinSane - I heard about the apples from dakky21, I believe (only one of the mods was active in deadchat, and I'm pretty sure it was dakky). Chipping a tooth and getting a PR from it was a possibility.

Right now, I'm not really scumreading Wing, but I am townreading deg for echoing some of my own thoughts about Alladin. So, Vote Wing

[StorrZerg]

Storr there are too many people to keep built up reads of everyone. I will add that I believe Rizky to be town as his posts to mr appear to be genuine and are well spaced. (Compare to the IB suddenly becoming highly active last night, or Player jumping onto every wing vote) i will also add slash as the quiet mafia type manipulating from the shadows. His posts always try to twist.

Whilst in theory I shoot Rish if Deg turn up town, I am struggling with the idea of Rish being scum. Claimed jailer is not something we want to get wrong. Did this three way finder come from Rage?

Im not asking for a built up read on everyone. I'm just stating when you spit out why someone is town because of role information, such a simple read isn't alignment indicative for you. Stop being weak on this issue. Take some time, and hammer out a read thats more than one line. I know you know how to give more in depth reads, and thats what i want from you. Ill follow up on Rizky, what is genuine, what what does well spaced have to do with alignment.

[StorrZerg]

could you give a read that is a bit more developed than "X person used power that made em town"

Did you actually read my post?

Personally i'm actually back to leaning town on LSU, i just can't see a mafia pulling this dumb shit. A mafia would know he gives out faulty inventions, he wouldn't' have the gumption to fake the mod fucking up. Not to mention believe his shit is real. Or even made the f*ck up he did when gifting me. Sure he is naive. Not to mention how weak an attempt this is to push on IB after Wing vs deg is up, i'm almost certain a mafia LSU would be attempting to take a stand on the 2.

I don't know LSU, but I see that he's modded and made almost 5000 mafia posts, so I don't think he is naive. I agree that his post was full of "dumb shit", and that the push on IB was weak, so why would someone with his experience do that? I don't have an answer for that, but it seems deceptive, and therefore, scummy. That fact that you seem to be trying to characterize his actions as something townish seems scummy to me also.

The overwhelming majority diving on wing right now concerns me. Why now? What about earlier? Why didn't people pile on yesterday. I mean look at yourself, you made some awful push at the end of the day. Voice your concern sure, but you should have known there would have been no way to gain traction like that on someone new to the votes.

Why now? I think it's obvious that benga's post means that it has to be Wing or me lynched today. If town chooses correctly, it will eliminate one scum, and confirm 2 others as town (assuming benga is telling the truth). If someone thinks they have a case on rishaed, then they can present it, otherwise, voting for anyone else is just a distraction. As I said before, I've seen a vote change direction in 2 hours, so 39 hours was plenty of time to get off falko. I might have been wrong about Ragian (though that hasn't been proven yet), but at least I was trying. I thought it was obvious that there was no case against falko, and that was before I noticed Wing's scummy reasoning.

I did read your post, thats why i'm asking for more information that isn't a simple answer to a read.

Regarding lsu, good we are fleshing him out. I didn't really know his history, but as someone who doesn't know, im talking about what i see. Is he known to go for the crazy path like madmitch? If so that would matter quite a bit on my read. Other wise he seems like someone who still wants to believe he is sane. Even though he has multiple things pointing other wise.

A vote swing of 2 hours, (was a bit more than that) also had a lot to do with who was in the game and who was on. And for one, I was constantly on and aggressively pushing the change (i assume you're talking about me, if not then ill use myself as an example). You didn't keep the momentum going, You didn't gain one person to go with you. You pushed on someone that was green checked by a cop. Hell i couldn't of pulled that off if i wanted to with 3 days of notice. I couldn't even pull off a vote on someone that was an admitted killer, that was being blocked by a jailer, when we all ready had a vig, who had poor reasoning for shooting almost certainly 2 town.

[StorrZerg]

@aladdinsane im not responding to you any more. Until you decide to read my posts and respond to things directly. I've answered questions you have asked and you have ignored them. Multiple times. Literally ever question you asked me just now i've answered TODAY. Rage's items haven't proved faulty. That is a major difference.

[StorrZerg]

@lsu your next invention should be made with the intention of figuring out if you give faulty inventions.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

[quote"Degaston"]I tried to keep track of vote changes on a spreadsheet, and even that was too difficult to keep up with after day 2. That is what made me decide to investigate Rage, though. He didn't vote for many people, and hardly anyone voted for him.[/quote]
http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LkVRu9eNdMy4

Harry potter was very similar in speed and game length to this game. Deg adapted to that and was very innovative with his play.

No one in this game was part of the dead chat, though Storr and Rage should be able to confirm thst Deg was one of the most effective town players in that game.

Storr - timing of posts is a useful tool. How many times do you ever see IB get annoyed and mass post? Its a rare event. Something about my posts last night forced IB to play emotionally.

Rizky on the other hand has at no point in this game felt the need to increase frequency of posts to have greater control over lynches.

Rizky is thrre a reference game in which you were mafia?

Aladdin - storr claimed double doc save as the extra role information.

Mars - do you really think that echoing is a town sign?

Storr - i will do a full read on players and slash this weekend. It will take a while.

[rizky_biznezz]

@wing no I have never been mafia

[degaston]

I tried to keep track of vote changes on a spreadsheet, and even that was too difficult to keep up with after day 2. That is what made me decide to investigate Rage, though. He didn't vote for many people, and hardly anyone voted for him.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LkVRu9eNdMy4

Harry potter was very similar in speed and game length to this game. Deg adapted to that and was very innovative with his play.

No one in this game was part of the dead chat, though Storr and Rage should be able to confirm thst Deg was one of the most effective town players in that game.

Was there a reason for posting that? Were you expecting me to do that again? Is that why you voted for Aladdin on days 1, 2 & 3, so that I wouldn't think that you two were scum buddies? And then, if he's lynched and turns out to be a scum enabler of town cops, as I kind of suspect, you could claim credit for leading a scum kill, while also disabling any cops?

But this is all very WIFOM, especially when you're aware that I look at such things, and it obviously made an impression on you. I don't think it would have worked very well in this game anyway, because three posters have made almost half of the posts, and there is much less speculative voting, probably due to the mass claim.

[degaston]

Unvote Vote Deg

Part of your post seems to be missing - you know, "because... reasons"?

Honestly I wish mafia would kill me this game. As I stated before with the lack of interest from the moderators(lack of vote counts etc...) and how the main mod seems to have vanished I don't have that much interests in it. The sweater obviously didn't work as intended, but the 8 ball I would say is unproven since there is no guarantee that IB gave a true result seeing how he may be cult/scum/whatever since it is quite odd that he would have info on someone that was antitown to start the game.

Don't give up now - you guys are still way ahead!

I've seen it happen one time in a bastard setup and it's really not likely, but just to throw it out there the mod may be the killer and with him AWOL it would fit with the no kill. Like I said not very likely, but it wouldn't be the first time someone did do that.

Oh, so dakky21 really meant to kill some people, but he just ran out of time... as he was writing the "End of N3" post?