Cleared khyber , UniAlias, jjreno [ka]

[Latore]

Accused:

khyber
UniAlias
jjreno



The accused are suspected of:

Being Multis

Other: If by chance not multi's which would find it hard to believe, cheating with friends on FOG game set up to gain them an advantage over the non friend player in non team game settings.



Game number(s):

Game 16281771
Game 16281679



Comments: Right away I thought was very odd when the game started my turn was up so fast after round one. Never seen that in a normal 24hr game to get back to my round in a few minutes with a 4 person game.
When game started I was the first one. I had to double check I was not seeing things. Than noticed the other 3 players in my game played back to back.
This got me to check there other games and found these 2 players play almost all the time especially in doubles. But also play non double games alot as well and FOG settings.
So if not multi and actually friends this is a hug advantage to them as they all see the complete board and the unsuspecting 4th player does not. I called them out in my game if knew each other or same person and can see no matter what know each other.
So this is either multi accounts or gross cheating with FOG game settings.

Plus when look at there other games together non double can see in FOG they almost never hit each other unless its to get spoils in escalating game. Its a dog pile on the other non suspecting player.

[Donelladan]

As they said in the game chat of your game, they are friends. So this is sure.
For the secret diplomacy, in the 2 games you linked, no one can say so far because it is a conquest map and nobody attacked smthg else than neutral so far.

I'd say you should link the other games you found in which you suspect secret diplomacy because with those one it is not conclusive.
There is people out here on CC that are friends, who play team games together, and also play standard game without cheating ( I do ). So it's possible they do that too.

[khyber]

ugh this guy, i've clearly explained the situation to LaTurd already through private emails and I'll do it here as well.

I havent played in years and the other night during a game night at my house playing catan and smallworld Risk came up and I told them (jjreno and karlmarker) about CC. I also texted my brother unialias whom I used to play with and against back when I played a lot to see if he'd be interested in playing anyway days later and since we're not premium members I cant set a game up for invites which means I have to post the game public and everyone has to race to get on there before it fills up. well twice it didnt happen which is the two games I'm being called out on. yes Im guilty of wanting to play with my friends and yes since we were all trying to coordinate signing on and entering the game numbers we were all online at the same time and played our turns fairly quickly gasp!

so no we're not cheating, will jjreno makes some moves in this game that will seem suspect? yeah probably he's never played before. if you dont wanna play against people who dont know what they're doing then I suggest not entering games with people who have question marks next to their name, okay? now please stop accusing of us cheating 2 moves into the game cause its based on nothing except you not understanding the concept of friends!

-Khyber
ps feel free to ask me anything about this situation as Im not taking being accused of cheating lightly and want full disclosure, if anyones interested I can post the emails to Latore in which I explained all the above and yet he still comes back with not only accusing me of cheating in this game (2 moves in btw) but that I was cheating 2 and 3 years ago when I used to play often! asshole! this is not acceptable to me, I'm introducing this site to two friends of mine please show them this site isnt a bunch of paranoid bullies who can make playing games be intimidating.

[jmyork82]

if khyber is a multi, the multi hunters will figure him out.

Otherwise, if he is telling the truth, then he makes a valid argument. It wouldnt be any different from clan mates playing in a non team game.

"if you dont wanna play against people who dont know what they're doing then I suggest not entering games with people who have question marks next to their name".................+1

[khyber]

for the record Im not trying to make an argument, I'm just responding to being accused of having fake accounts or as the accuser says "it would be hard to believe" that I could actually have friends but that either way I'm cheating, as if thats the only two possible explanations. I'm sorry you have no friends Latore i'm even sorrier you can't even imagine someone else having friends. I wouldnt be so offended except that when I explained the situation to you, instead of logically computing it you upped the charges adding in that I must have been cheating all along years ago because I was sometimes playing against Unialias and sometimes with him on teams, so of course I must have been cheating! all this on my first day back to the site in years! I guess I forgot how petty, weird and crazy people on this site can get.

[Latore]

First I have never been vulgar or complained about playing against any players. I have been nice every step of the way just asking questions.
The way the game stated got me thinking and the more I checking into there games noticed they play together and especially FOG settings.
Plus seeing a little pattern in the few games I checked they never rally attached each other, always the other non suspecting player. So gets me thinking a little secret alliance.
I will post later the games I looked into.

If a multi the hunters will figure that out, if Not they will figure out if there has been a secret alliance.

As I explained to Khyber, have to look at someone from the outside looking in and what it looks like is happening especially with the way they have the games set up. FOG (can be very very easily abuse this setting being friends.)

I dont care who I play, I never really care anyone rank as that does not mean how good a player is. I just want a fair game with all players playing for them self. Just want to make sure thats whats going on.
Plus yes I understand friends playing on the site, and no issues with that if playing with in the rules. Just playing this game you make friends.
I have played on this site with family members in the past a long time ago but found out right away how it can look and changed how we played, stayed in teams if played together. Other than that solo. so no impression of a secret alliance and cheating the game.

So my full intention is to first make sure not multi's as was very suspicious of it after my game started, and than make sure no secret alliance. If all that is ok with the moderators. Than I'm good with it.

[khyber]

why dont you just go ahead and take the time to post what you found instead of taking the time to just say that you saw evidence of a secret alliance? its the least you could do for trying to run my name into the ground. back up what your saying please i'm very interested in what you've found.

[khyber]

btw i guess this game im just playing myself right? #16281982 those are the three people i tried to start a game with twice before. in Game 16281679 unialias wasnt fast enough to join and someone took his spot then just after that we tried again in game Game 16281771 but this time karlmarker missed and thats where you come in, before we finally switched the map and landed all together in game #16281982

im hoping the moderators can cancel our game together once they clear all this cause i personally dont see you walking away from this if you were to lose with any other explanation than we were cheating, seeing how im telling you the truth now and you dont believe it.

[Donelladan]

Don't worry khyber, it's very normal process. When someone has doubt it is better he report it, but if you're cleared then everyone will forget about it.
It's quite normal Latore has some doubts, since you#re friends, and he didn't know it, your behavior was a bit odd as he explained in the 1st post.
But if you done nothing wrong then nothing will happen and you'll keep enjoying CC hopefully.

[Beast Of Burson]

What's to say that personal friends don't text or email each other about a game? Know one would ever be the wiser. I don't feel personal friends that can contact each other OUTSIDE of CC should be allowed to play in any games other then team games or games those other friends are not in. Just keeps people a lot more honest.

Not saying you guys are cheating at all, I'm just pointing out the possibility of such things. Cheating can and does occur. All Latore is saying is that it looked really odd that you guys all went back to back to back. That does not happen that often. Personally I've never seen that in any of my games.

So it threw up a red flag to him. He has the right to question it, as do you as to why he thinks that.

[MagnusGreeol]

What's to say that personal friends don't text or email each other about a game? Know one would ever be the wiser. I don't feel personal friends that can contact each other OUTSIDE of CC should be allowed to play in any games other then team games or games those other friends are not in. Just keeps people a lot more honest.

Not saying you guys are cheating at all, I'm just pointing out the possibility of such things. Cheating can and does occur. All Latore is saying is that it looked really odd that you guys all went back to back to back. That does not happen that often. Personally I've never seen that in any of my games.

So it threw up a red flag to him. He has the right to question it, as do you as to why he thinks that.

+1 for the Beast! Both are acting out rational human behavior in questioning and defending, So in fact both are correct, But def. agree it would be better if all you and your friends either just fought each other no one else, or team up trips/quads and never get a Secret Depolmacy or Multi accusation again? It would still be fun for you guys to kik each others azzes, or team up to kik azz, easy peasy.")

-\MGM/-♎

[khyber]

so we got 4.5 rounds in within a 3+ hr window. how is it unusual or weird behavior for 4 players who all just joined the game btw (so its not like your going to say sure I'll join this game but Im going to immediately log off and not play any turns until tomorrow) so yeah anyway how is it unusal to get a few rounds in especially on that map where your fighting neutrals for the first few rounds? I get that he brings it to attention thats fine but the comments like:
The accused are suspected of:
Being Multis
Other: If by chance not multi's which would find it hard to believe, cheating with friends on FOG game set up to gain them an advantage over the non friend player in non team game settings.

yes I'm offended by that, its like making a murderer but for CC. making a cheater, describing in detail some crime that was never committed and now our names are posted in a headline under cheating? i dont know it just doesnt seem right to me. seems to me the process should be for him to go to the moderaters and let them do the digging and conclusion making not glancing at a few games from 2 or 3 years ago and deciding I was cheating and now what Im back again after all these years and this time Ive gotta a new master plan by creating false accounts? haha its laughable how stupid this is

[khyber]

well magnus thats what we were trying to do. I'll reinstate my premium account when this blows over so I can send proper invites instead of having to send game numbers

[MagnusGreeol]

well magnus thats what we were trying to do. I'll reinstate my premium account when this blows over so I can send proper invites instead of having to send game numbers

- Ya know, I personally think the money spent for a year membership is totally worth it, $30 into 365 is the cheapest best fun I'm ever have") Good luck to You and your buddies!

[khyber]

yeah i agree, when i played before i played as a premium player. totally worth it for speed games and to have more than 4 games at once. i was going to do it soon but now i'll wait to see what the verdict is, make sure i'm not gonna get shut down and lose my money!

[MagnusGreeol]

yeah i agree, when i played before i played as a premium player. totally worth it for speed games and to have more than 4 games at once. i was going to do it soon but now i'll wait to see what the verdict is, make sure i'm not gonna get shut down and lose my money!

-Very Highly doubt your getting shut down. GL in your wars!

[king achilles]

As far as multis is concerned, they are cleared.

With regards to a possible secret diplomacy, it's a fog of war setting and so far, most attacks are against neutrals according to the game log. If our basis is that we see players staring turns almost right after one another, that is still far from being a conclusive evidence. Although, it's understandable to be suspicious about especially if they claim to be friends, it still doesn't mean there is an automatic cheating going on because of that. Friends can still play together with other players and yes, it's not illegal if they happen to be online at the same time at some points of the game. Unless they themselves proclaim they are cheating, no one here can declare there is a secret alliance based on what we have right now.

[khyber]

thank you king achilles

[Latore]

Happy the multi have been cleared and I hope they understand how it looks on the outside from others its can be seen as secret alliances. Especially setting up FOG settings for games. Best to play non FOGed in these cases as everything is seen and can easily tell if playing up and up.

Since this is out in the open now and #1 the multi been cleared I'm good.

This is why these forum are for. If see anything odd and out of place have to bring it forward as will be more than one person thinking the same thing.
I never meant anything bad out of it except the full truth.

I have seen and even caught multi's before and they have messaged me and did the exact same thing defending them self. But once the multi hunters checked was proven to be true.
Thats why went to the forum as eventually the full truth will be told which it has.

Thanks for everyone and there input. Great seeing different and same perspective. We all want the same thing. A fun and enjoyable game experience.

[khyber]

Latore - the thing that makes me mad is this quote from you:
"Other: If by chance not multi's which would find it hard to believe, cheating with friends on FOG game set up to gain them an advantage over the non friend player in non team game setting"
and
"So this is either multi accounts or gross cheating with FOG game settings."

so your saying that even if on the off chance we weren't multi's you'd still think we were cheating. I feel like you not only owe me an apology but that you still need to present the games that you said you'd post later that would implicate me as having a secret alliance with unialias. I want everyone to see that you basically jumped to conclusions based on very very little intel. so I'm waiting...

[khyber]

Latore - since I know your gonna back off your whole this guy is involved in some kind of secret alliance scam thing.. I went ahead and looked up every standard fog game I've ever played with unialias and came up with 35 (was actually a few more but those were head to head games). and out of the 35, 6 games were with friends or family only set in private games. so out of the 29 games games that matter unialias won 10, I won 6 and the field won 13. so you could definitely say that unialias seems to be doing pretty well and we could certainly dive into those 10 or even 16 (with the games I won) games and look for moments where we maybe helped each other out OR you could accept that you were wrong in accusing me of such things and apologize. this isnt about you being suspect of the multi thing this is about you taking it a step further by saying you researched my profile and concluded that Im a cheater and since then you havent provided any proof whatsoever, and now you need to apologize for it cause not only are you wrong but you straight up made shit up about me!

[Donelladan]

so out of the 29 games games that matter unialias won 10, I won 6 and the field won 13.

Which means more than 50% of the time one of you two won the game, except if all of them were 3 players games, then that looks suspect.
Just saying, I did not look up the games, I am not accusing you of anything, but you're defense isn't very good here.

What's to say that personal friends don't text or email each other about a game? Know one would ever be the wiser. I don't feel personal friends that can contact each other OUTSIDE of CC should be allowed to play in any games other then team games or games those other friends are not in. Just keeps people a lot more honest.

Not saying you guys are cheating at all, I'm just pointing out the possibility of such things. Cheating can and does occur. All Latore is saying is that it looked really odd that you guys all went back to back to back. That does not happen that often. Personally I've never seen that in any of my games.

So it threw up a red flag to him. He has the right to question it, as do you as to why he thinks that.

+1 for the Beast! Both are acting out rational human behavior in questioning and defending, So in fact both are correct, But def. agree it would be better if all you and your friends either just fought each other no one else, or team up trips/quads and never get a Secret Depolmacy or Multi accusation again? It would still be fun for you guys to kik each others azzes, or team up to kik azz, easy peasy.")

-\MGM/-♎

Wow, for the record, let me say I am 100% against it.
I invited some of my friends to this game, and I played many game against them. Public, multiplayers games.
You may also have noticed I am in a clan, and all of my clanmates are now my friends, and we do use communication system outside of CC.
Even suggesting that we should be blocked of playing together is appalling.

Especially for real life friends, you'd be killing a big part of the fun of CC if something like that was ever done.
I continually try to make more of my friends coming to CC; because I love this site, and if they come we gonna play together in all kind of games exactly like this bunch of fellow are doing, and that's good for CC.
Friends doesn't mean cheaters seriously...

[khyber]

well I'm happy to open those games up, I have nothing to hide. But just to show how it can go both ways lets do this; check out game 10708750. Years ago it seems, Latore and I played a game together with a third person dhallmeyer. Now if you do a search with games that have dhallmeyer and latore in them, 10 games come up and between them they won all but 1. 90%. They lost one game. Does that mean we should publicly blast those two names on the cheaters forum, with their names in the headlines? I mean whose to say they are not cheating right? NO, of course not. And I dont appreciate it happening to me. Its fine that we got checked in on with the 3 new people I brought to CC, I get that part of it. But if you read Lature's posts on here and his emails to me its a bunch of BS he was pushing it too far cause he thought he had caught someone I guess I dont know why. I just dont see why he shouldnt be like hey I'm sorry I was wrong and be done with it.

[Beast Of Burson]

so out of the 29 games games that matter unialias won 10, I won 6 and the field won 13.

Which means more than 50% of the time one of you two won the game, except if all of them were 3 players games, then that looks suspect.
Just saying, I did not look up the games, I am not accusing you of anything, but you're defense isn't very good here.

What's to say that personal friends don't text or email each other about a game? Know one would ever be the wiser. I don't feel personal friends that can contact each other OUTSIDE of CC should be allowed to play in any games other then team games or games those other friends are not in. Just keeps people a lot more honest.

Not saying you guys are cheating at all, I'm just pointing out the possibility of such things. Cheating can and does occur. All Latore is saying is that it looked really odd that you guys all went back to back to back. That does not happen that often. Personally I've never seen that in any of my games.

So it threw up a red flag to him. He has the right to question it, as do you as to why he thinks that.

+1 for the Beast! Both are acting out rational human behavior in questioning and defending, So in fact both are correct, But def. agree it would be better if all you and your friends either just fought each other no one else, or team up trips/quads and never get a Secret Depolmacy or Multi accusation again? It would still be fun for you guys to kik each others azzes, or team up to kik azz, easy peasy.")

-\MGM/-♎

Wow, for the record, let me say I am 100% against it.
I invited some of my friends to this game, and I played many game against them. Public, multiplayers games.
You may also have noticed I am in a clan, and all of my clanmates are now my friends, and we do use communication system outside of CC.
Even suggesting that we should be blocked of playing together is appalling.

Especially for real life friends, you'd be killing a big part of the fun of CC if something like that was ever done.
I continually try to make more of my friends coming to CC; because I love this site, and if they come we gonna play together in all kind of games exactly like this bunch of fellow are doing, and that's good for CC.
Friends doesn't mean cheaters seriously...

Obviously you need to re-read what I wrote. I specifically said:

Not saying you guys are cheating at all, I'm just pointing out the possibility of such things.

Why take offense? Didn't say "friends means cheating". It's just my personal opinion on the matter, which obviously isn't allowed. Take a shot of something strong and get over yourself.

And don't say you're not offended..... it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

[Donelladan]

Well, I was reacted to this line Beast of Burston

I don't feel personal friends that can contact each other OUTSIDE of CC should be allowed to play in any games other then team games or games those other friends are not in.

You did say that.