[Exp] CYOC! #4 Endgame! Town wins, you filthy animals

[strike wolf]

To be fair, even with all the unkillables it still took 3 out of 4 lynches being correct and a correct guess that IB would assume I would switch him with someone for town to win this. I mean maybe on Day 5 PCM town sides or he might take the slight chance that mafia isn't IB and announce he is third party and willing to side with the last remaining mafia. Agreed that End basically had no chance. SKs really usually only have a very slim chance even with augmentations of the role.

[Metsfanmax]

I can't get down with voting mets for MVP. No offense meant as he is a very good player and he played well today (As fruitless as most of it was, I really did enjoy our back and forth on Day 4) but he was not the major turning point in lynching any scum (except Streaker indirectly), he gave a protection to scum and his plan on Day 4 if we had went with it would have lost us the game.

I didn't play particularly well this game, though in my defense gifter is hard to do well. I'll note that I was aware of the risk in giving IB that mirror, but I didn't consider it protection per se, because I thought if someone tried to kill him and it backfired, we'd still learn from that action. And we did, I was onto IB for a little while in how he described the results of that mirroring. But as I described earlier, I was just too convinced he was town because of the metagaming, so I didn't push that angle hard enough.

Quick question for Mets: If you knew Pancake was third party

Didn't know he was third party, was just more confident than not

wouldn't a mislynch on me with only one scum still have made it a near unwinnable situation for town? (down to 4 (Likely as no one could have kept mafia from killing you with me gone unless you could visit yourself), PCM probably changes sides and sides with mafia to lynch PT and town wouldn't be able to prevent the lynch.)

I still think we would have won with a mislynch on you even with two scum left. I kill IB with my magic, and if the game is still up on D5 because HS is still scum, then there's at least two town-aligned and only one mafia-aligned left.

As for PCM switching sides. To me it was transparent that he was playing for a town win, and I didn't see why he would suddenly switch sides near the end. At that point he would be indifferent as long as he made it to end game, so I imagine he would have played the same strat. I didn't factor in him switching sides into any of my analysis; my assumption is that he would only switch sides in a situation that immediately guaranteed a mafia win, so there wasn't much point in thinking about it. And there wasn't really any way for me to guarantee us a situation where he couldn't do that, given that he had 2 or possibly 3 votes. Though I didn't think about it too hard.

[TheForgivenOne]

That is the one regret I had, that I made it really hard for SK to win. I should have given him a separate win condition beside being last alive.

[Marashu]

That is the one regret I had, that I made it really hard for SK to win. I should have given him a separate win condition beside being last alive.

Perhaps a hit list (these characters must be dead/kill these characters/kill X players successfully and you still alive for you to win)?

[TheForgivenOne]

That is the one regret I had, that I made it really hard for SK to win. I should have given him a separate win condition beside being last alive.

Perhaps a hit list (these characters must be dead/kill these characters/kill X players successfully and you still alive for you to win)?

I'll remember that for next time. Although my next game won't be a CYOC. I might do something like Storr did with his Pick your Power game. Or a more standard.

[Iron Butterfly]

Having played in several CYOC it is easy to see what happens. In all the games there seem to be roles that break the games for one side or the other. While they can be fun to play the Endgame is where the reality becomes apparent. The advantage for mafia in a regular game is of course they know who is who. Having four mafia certainly helped us. On further thought the inexperience of Streaker hammering the doc was the tide turner. You DO NOT hammer a claimed DOC ....EVER...especially if you are mafia. Personally I find the doc role over rated.

If this was chess streaker was our Queen. I suppose it is easy to say that as we got an extra kill night 1...but we also chanced we would be killed as well,not taking into count mirrors and such.

I have to think Mets was watching the board because as soon as HS voted he took off his vote...I was watching the game as well I just missed hammering and perhaps winning.

This is one of those games wish could be played over after we all take amnesia gas.

So yeh...mafia could have used a minor tweak but over all we could have won if we did not lose Streaker day two.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Everyone is a genius after the fact.

It does not take a genius to KILLKILL anyone who claims third party day one.

[TheForgivenOne]

I was flabbergasted that Endgame claimed D1 LOL

It's funny, I saw streaker's explanation of his role, and I kind of liked it. So I might keep that for future games. I know I was torn between having 3 or 4 mafia. But I felt that town had strong enough roles to win with 4. 3 I felt like was handicapping them. I almost put in a Traitor/Sleeper Agent that didn't know he was a Traitor until D3 kind of thing, but said screw that.

[Metsfanmax]

I have to think Mets was watching the board because as soon as HS voted he took off his vote...I was watching the game as well I just missed hammering and perhaps winning.

Yeah I basically wanted HS to place the vote but didn't want to risk someone hammering quite yet, so I made sure to unvote as soon as HS voted.

@TFO yeah, the 4 mafia turned out alright.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I do like reading mafia chat when I get killed early for having good reads.

What I find odd is that nobody ever rereads D1 to see what those reads were. Not just when I die early, but all early town deaths. In this case I wanted to lynch IB and PT, with suspicions of Streaker, Tim and PCM. With PT claimed and Benga dead, lynching the others would only benefit town, (PCM was more dangerous to town than he realised)

[Metsfanmax]

D1 reads are usually wrong, and you didn't have any more information than the rest of us, so it's not clear why we should have paid special attention to that.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

D1 reads are usually wrong, and you didn't have any more information than the rest of us, so it's not clear why we should have paid special attention to that.

Mafia always have a reason for their kill, crack the reason and you'll be one step ahead all game. It may be full of wifom, but the victims normally have at least partially correct reads. Thats information you did not have D1 and should not deprive yourself of.

[strike wolf]

Reads aren't everything. My reads were pretty good day 1 (openly suspected 3 of 4 scum) but my overall play was bad. I didn't back up my reads and therefore people weren't likely to follow me. On the flip side as a veteran I am also more likely to draw protection. You are a good player wing and despite helping to lynch Benga you played well enough that people would possibly follow you. That was a major factor in why they wanted you dead.

[StorrZerg]

I was flabbergasted that Endgame claimed D1 LOL

It's funny, I saw streaker's explanation of his role, and I kind of liked it. So I might keep that for future games. I know I was torn between having 3 or 4 mafia. But I felt that town had strong enough roles to win with 4. 3 I felt like was handicapping them. I almost put in a Traitor/Sleeper Agent that didn't know he was a Traitor until D3 kind of thing, but said screw that.

hehe i have made the same play 2x

maybe he got the idea from me

[TheForgivenOne]

I was flabbergasted that Endgame claimed D1 LOL

It's funny, I saw streaker's explanation of his role, and I kind of liked it. So I might keep that for future games. I know I was torn between having 3 or 4 mafia. But I felt that town had strong enough roles to win with 4. 3 I felt like was handicapping them. I almost put in a Traitor/Sleeper Agent that didn't know he was a Traitor until D3 kind of thing, but said screw that.

hehe i have made the same play 2x

maybe he got the idea from me

Haha mind if I PM you in the morning regarding your PYP game you hosted? I want some feedback if I'm going to host it.

[pancakemix]

I was flabbergasted that Endgame claimed D1 LOL

It's funny, I saw streaker's explanation of his role, and I kind of liked it. So I might keep that for future games. I know I was torn between having 3 or 4 mafia. But I felt that town had strong enough roles to win with 4. 3 I felt like was handicapping them. I almost put in a Traitor/Sleeper Agent that didn't know he was a Traitor until D3 kind of thing, but said screw that.

hehe i have made the same play 2x

maybe he got the idea from me

That actually came up over the course of the game. I considered it as well after that, but decided I'd rather just play for town.