Age of Merchants - [Quenched]

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:21 am

I think the steering wheel is fine.

*Yah! 800th Post *

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:32 am

Kaplowitz wrote:I think the steering wheel is fine.

*Yah! 800th Post *

thanks for confirming

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:27 pm

DiM wrote: my thoughts exactly. but i'll pm lack to be sure.

Any reply from Lack?

C.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:16 pm

yeti_c wrote:
DiM wrote: my thoughts exactly. but i'll pm lack to be sure.
Any reply from Lack?

C.

all the new features are implemented.

so the map will be the first one quenched to contain one of the new features

where's andy?

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:09 am

Most excellent news...

C.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:47 am

yeti_c wrote:Most excellent news...

C.

indeed old chap.

large 100% quality url
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w250 ... -100-2.jpg

small 100% quality url
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w250 ... -100-5.jpg

xml:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/alldu4

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:22 am

i'm posting here a collection of my latest suggestions to keep track of them. i hope it does not bother anybody.

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: One-time Bonus

Description: you receive a one time bonus when you conquer a terit. after that the terit gives no other bonus regardless if somebody else takes the terit.

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Modifiable bonus for number of owned terits

Description: normaly you get 1 for every 3 terits you own (minimum 3 troops if you have less than 12). well, i'd preatty much like to regulate these numbers. for example get +1 for each terit. or +3 for every 2 terits, or why not? get absolutely nothing regardless of the terits you have

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Converting Territories

Description: a territory can be converted to another player if certain conditions are met. let's say we have a green territory surrounded by blue. if blue's troops are ten times stronger the green teritory becomes blue with just one army

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Variable Attack Range

Description: we have ranged attacks but those are predefined ranged attacks and can only be applied to set territories. i want those attacks to be variable. so you have a catapult in territory A and it can attack at a certain range (let's say 3 territories in any direction) but in time that catapult becomes a cannon and thus it should be able to attack at a longer range.
or perhaps you get a certain territory that while it is held it provides a boost in catapult range and if you lose it you return to normal range.

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Conditions for xml features

Description: let's say we have a cannon terit that has ranged attack. but i don't want that ranged attack to be available unless the owner also has another terit called ammo depot. so can the cannon terit lose his ranged attack if the owner loses the ammo depot?

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Win condition - number of armies

Description: can a specific number of armies be added as a wining condition? let's say you must have terit x & y but also have 100 armies in those terits.

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Multiple ownership of a terit

Description: some terits are not attackable but more players can move into the same terit.
let's say we have terit A -> B <- C
with the arrows being one way moving. not attacking just moving. green is in terit A and he moves his troops to B. he selects attack but no dice are rolled he just moves. then red has terit C and also moves into terit B. now both red and green have their armies in the same terit. it's multiple ownership. since the teit is move only there's not the problem of someone attacking it to see who defends and such

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Random assigned xml features

Description: let's say i have a map where some terits give bonuses. i want those terits to be random every time a new game starts

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Motion detectors

Description: i want triggers in the xml for certain actions done by the players. let's say a players moves from terita A to B. if he moves 10 troops it's ok but if he moves 100 troops a motion detector is triggered and a xml feature is applied (like an impassable border or decay or something)

DiM wrote:Suggestion Idea: Starting positions by colour

Description: i don't know how i forgot this one but i did. luckily i remembered
so i want to be able to write in the xml where will each player start depending on the number of players. something like:
Code: Select all
if 2 players -> red terit A green terit H (the rest neutral)
if 3 players -> red terit A green terit H and blue in terit D (the rest neutral)
......

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:42 am

Steel Panzer · Post by **Steel Panzer** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:27 pm

you've been eating that banana for 2 days now!

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:42 pm

Just making sure, are the above links ready to go?

--Andy

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:24 am

The legend is uber complicated and unattractive and the continent colours are virtually indistinguishable to me...

I have just looked at this map now, but is it possible that no one has commented on these two issues before it reached final forge?

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:36 am

Ruben, those things have been mentioned... but they are just ignored. Good thing Andy is doing his job properly.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:47 am

Teya wrote:Ruben, those things have been mentioned... but they are just ignored. Good thing Andy is doing his job properly.

So if they have been mentioned before and the problem hasn't been rectified I honestly cannot see how this map can be quenched. The font is barely legible as well...

Dim can these issues be addressed?

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:15 am

All the way back on page 36 KEYOGI mentioned all the things you mentioned Ruben. I dont think DiM provided much of an excuse though.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:59 am

2 questions?

1) How are the contient colours not indistinguishable? I perfectly see 6 different colours edging the islands? Are you sure you're looking at the correct image?

2) The legend is tricky I agree - but this is the best that has been refined over a period of time... can you suggest a way of making it easier?

C.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:05 am

yeti_c wrote:2 questions?

1) How are the contient colours not indistinguishable? I perfectly see 6 different colours edging the islands? Are you sure you're looking at the correct image?

2) The legend is tricky I agree - but this is the best that has been refined over a period of time... can you suggest a way of making it easier?

C.

1. I am colour blind so that maybe one of the reasons...however I think even someone who is not colour blind would have problems differentiating the colours. The font is also very hard to read. Basically other maps would not have been accepted with that kind of font so I am perplexed as to why this has.

2. I don't have an idea since I cannot understand it at all. Maybe the map maker can simplify or modify it? I cannot imagine a new player playing on this map.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:20 am

Ah Colour blind... I hadn't considered that... I apologise... which islands do you specifically have a problem with?

Note of course that the continents in themselves don't contain bonuses so it's fairly immaterial the colours it's the resources that matter - and it's pretty obvious which islands they are on?
-------------
What parts do you not understand specifically?

If you read it carefully I feel you must understand at least half of it?

C.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:52 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Just making sure, are the above links ready to go?

--Andy

yep. ready to go.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:02 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:The legend is uber complicated and unattractive and the continent colours are virtually indistinguishable to me...

I have just looked at this map now, but is it possible that no one has commented on these two issues before it reached final forge?

the color theme of the map has been discussed several times. since there's no bonus for holding a continent there was really no reason to make each continent very different. keyogi asked for some coloring around the borders something like he thought of at some point for middle east and i provided that. i added some slight colors different enough to tell what continent is what. but again, they are not really that important. you can see the resources and that's the most important part.

the legend part was the trickiest work on this map. because it has a whole new gameplay the legend wording is a very delicate matter and i assure you i put all my effort into making it as easy to understand as possible. if you have the time to read the entire thread you'll see how many posts about the legend have been and how extensively it has been modified. until i reached the current form and people agreed it is much better and understandable. believe me, there were times i thought i'd go insane with all the modifications

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:08 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
Teya wrote:Ruben, those things have been mentioned... but they are just ignored. Good thing Andy is doing his job properly.
So if they have been mentioned before and the problem hasn't been rectified I honestly cannot see how this map can be quenched. The font is barely legible as well...

Dim can these issues be addressed?

about the font. also please look back and see how many font options i proposed. i think it was close to 20. from all those 2 fonts were selected with 2 things in mind. feeling and readability. of course i could put times new roman everywhere and it would be very readable but i need something to really give the feeling of an old map. since people agreed on the font i think it is ok.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:11 pm

Teya wrote:All the way back on page 36 KEYOGI mentioned all the things you mentioned Ruben. I dont think DiM provided much of an excuse though.

keyogi came on page 36 and provided some feedback. i quickly did some modifications as he requested and posted an image. then i said i don't want it like that for cluttering reasons. the map is already somewhat cluttered.

then keyogi admitted cluttering would be a problem ad accepted my motives.

so even though keyogi said my reasons are good you come now after 20 pages and say i did not provide much of an excuse?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:17 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:I cannot imagine a new player playing on this map.

actually i'm sure a new player won't join his first game on AoM. he won't do it on USApocalypse or Space either because these are maps with a higher degree of difficulty than the other maps. the nuclear bonuses on apocalypse or the multi ownership terits on space provide confusion for a beginner. but for an experienced user they represent no difficulty. so bare in mind, a new player comes and joins classic in his first few games or the more adventurous types join maps similar to classic.

i never designed this map thinking of beginners. i did it as an alternative for people that are tired of the same old gameplay.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:19 pm

DiM wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:The legend is uber complicated and unattractive and the continent colours are virtually indistinguishable to me...

I have just looked at this map now, but is it possible that no one has commented on these two issues before it reached final forge?

the color theme of the map has been discussed several times. since there's no bonus for holding a continent there was really no reason to make each continent very different. keyogi asked for some coloring around the borders something like he thought of at some point for middle east and i provided that. i added some slight colors different enough to tell what continent is what. but again, they are not really that important. you can see the resources and that's the most important part.

the legend part was the trickiest work on this map. because it has a whole new gameplay the legend wording is a very delicate matter and i assure you i put all my effort into making it as easy to understand as possible. if you have the time to read the entire thread you'll see how many posts about the legend have been and how extensively it has been modified. until i reached the current form and people agreed it is much better and understandable. believe me, there were times i thought i'd go insane with all the modifications

Okay granted the colour is not important. But you did not get my point. I have no doubt you did your best to improve the legend, however why should I have to read through 50 pages to understand it?

Do you think that a new player will say 'Hmm...can't understand the legend. Let me check the thread.' The problem is that it's not understandable. Either that or maybe I have a problem because I cannot understand it.

And about the font...I understand you want to style it according to the map but it must be stylised AND legible.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:21 pm

DiM wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:I cannot imagine a new player playing on this map.

actually i'm sure a new player won't join his first game on AoM. he won't do it on USApocalypse or Space either because these are maps with a higher degree of difficulty than the other maps. the nuclear bonuses on apocalypse or the multi ownership terits on space provide confusion for a beginner. but for an experienced user they represent no difficulty. so bare in mind, a new player comes and joins classic in his first few games or the more adventurous types join maps similar to classic.

i never designed this map thinking of beginners. i did it as an alternative for people that are tired of the same old gameplay.

Hmm I think a new player just selects a map according to the map theme's appeal irrespective of what the gameplay is. A map should be understandable to all the community. At least that's my opinion.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:25 pm

this post is for Ruben and Teya.

never in this whole thread have i ignored suggestions. NEVER!!!
i'm really upset of you saying that. never in this whole thread have i refused a suggestion without providing a reason. i always implemented the suggestions saw how they looked and then posted my reasons for refusing them. i treated every poster with respect never insulted anyone regardless of the fact that some came after 20-30-40 pages and said stuff that's already been discussed ages ago.

you two coming now after 55 pages a few months of development and almost 2 weeks of final forge and saying this does not deserve forging or that i've deliberately ignored suggestions is really nasty. please check the thread, read everything on it and then post. there have been polls, there have been discussions about every aspect of this map. why didn't you post then?