Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[Whatsausage]

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

Not sure if softclaim just meaning non-vanilla or more specific to multiple votes.

really don't have that much on him. the one thing i do have, which i don't like is the manner of which he asks questions. The follow up seems to be lacking, and there is no continuation of discussion. Its mostly just him quoting someone, but not following up with it.

So what do you want me to do lol?

I have a town read on him

You could explain that town read

So like this, i did, yet he doesn't have any comment?

I haven't posted since then, so no I hadn't gotten around to commenting on it yet. You talk about four of his posts specifically. One of which you say is "crappy" another is "not alignment indicative". So neither of those are leading you to have a strong town read on him. One of the others is "long for early game" and "shows he isn't planning to afk." You said he brought up a read on ultra, but that happened to be very similar to the read that AOG had made and had been discussed, so not really bringing any new discussion in like you say he is. Really the only thing about that post to like imo is that he mentioned the positioning of streaker's vote for an fos. And then for the other post you reference, he is answering your question by saying he won't answer it because there was no reason to. This is apparently the answer you were looking for, so you asked a loaded question and he "passed". He mentions that you were steering him away from zivel (who he hasn't gone back to). I don't see this really leading to a town read. He has other posts that I could see swaying you, but I don't understand why you chose these to make your case.

First off, my goodness some of you are grasping hardcore at nothing when you are actually accusing anark for his very early "let's all jump on pcm" joke. You've got to be kidding me if you took that as a serious idea.

God you bleed town anamainiacks

Have to agree, that was a solid first post and explained coherently why we vote day one.

I am still pushing for an Ultra lynch, he has not come back to defend himself and so is either afk or lurking. Till I hear more from him, I am happy for him to die today.

Will come back later after shopping with a more comprehensive list.

So because he had a post agreeing with you he bleeds town? Most of his post was meta-based (the benefits of lynching D1) and that is normally the type of thing you like to jump on. What gives? That wasn't questioning/ pressuring/ giving reads.

And then zivel hops right on to agree as well.
Followed by promising a list we have yet to see (I'd give him more time on it, but it has been a decently long shopping trip)

Right now I am getting scum vibes from zivel

Fp'd by storr
somewhat talks about my question

Seems that it wasn't worth the effort to revise his post since i posted before him. again, he sees what i posted before hand, and it answers some questions, but no follow up.
what didnt i respond to? why isn't he interested in that?

I also didn't have time to rewrite my post then, and since then I let animainiacks (sorry if sp) slip my mind as he hadn't posted. My bad. But my question was still there for you to answer more completely on your own. So his reads agreed with your own, you liked how he got there, and....? Or is that all it takes?

[Zivel]

zivel... the 3rd option is its policy for him regardless of his alignment.
so he would do it as any.. thing to note is, he seems to have given in that a lynch may happen, so he is at least forthcoming with reads right now, which is good

we really shouldn't be talking about no lynch any more since imo the majority of people would like to see a lynch, so we can move on from that.

Nah that third option falls into 'dumb town' imo and with the experience he claims to have he would been pulled up by someone like me before and had this argument before. If he has experience, this is not the first time he has tried this on.

But I am over Ultra, we are not getting a wagon on him and his soft claim is enough for me to move on to greener pastures.

Well, for one, thanks for missing my long post a few pages back that's easily more substantial than the one you posted. Interestingly, it points to you as one of the people foolishly making a case on Nark for his "case" on me. Coincidence?

As for downplaying arguments, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Is there a problem with that? Yes, it's D1 and any argument is going to be weak, but shouldn't they at least hold to some counterargument? If you want your discussion taken seriously, it needs to have a comeback to being responded to. Or better yet, if you want me to engage in conversation, engage me.

You mean this one:

personally i don't even have a read on on you............... all your nl talk its null and doesn't mean anything imo. since i believe that to be a policy you would follow regardless of your alignment. since that is something you are used to on another forum.

I don't buy this. You have to have some type of opinion on him one way or another, and your opinion of the NL argument can easily become your opinion on Ultra. You, who make mountains out of molehills, HAVE to feel some way about Ultra's play.

I agree with the sentiment on fake claims, it won't change day 1, all information is welcome but the mod refuses so end of story. Pushing the mod for it after he deliberately dodged the question is weird though, like you're trying to prove you're trying to help the town without running the risk of actually helping the town. So Strike and pcm, slightly scummy behaviour.

I've always been partial to straight answers, personally. It's the kind of thing where a question mark only helps the mafia, because all it does is add another level of uncertainty regarding claims.

As a mod, I tend to believe coming up with believable fakeclaims is a vital skill for mafia, so if there aren't any fakes or even partial fakes it's neither here nor there. It'dd just be nice to know, dontcha think?

Rishaed honestly shouldn't answer how he is going to enforce it. Since this should never happen. If we approach the end of a day phase (ffs they are 10 daydays long) so 24-48 hours, I'm sure we will have narrowed what to do.

Honestly it be nice to have a lynch before wed. But activity level from half the players is terrible.

That's stupid. It's like not having a contingency for who succeeds a dying president because it SHOULDN'T happen. You have a similar rule in your games about lynches without majority; how often do those get invoked?

Yes, we should lynch someone rather than having Rish do it, but what happens if he has to should be defined. Why would you not want it defined?

(said definition had been posted before I got that far in the thread)

Seriously? You talk mechanics for most of it and the rest you have a go at storr. Infact the only read you have given in 11 pages of content has been on storr who is the easy pickings cause he is the most out there. Now I am not sold on storr town, I think my position on him is changing but I would like more reads from you than this weak stuff. Are you just sitting quietly there waiting for us to lynch Ultra cause he has some dumb idea about day one lynchs or maybe pick on the most prolific as that is always an easy lynch day one, knowing that your scum buddies are safe?

Unvote: Vote Pancakemix

Come join me storr, lets see if we can get at least one decent wagon going on this first day.

[Zivel]

Im going to have to re read this entire day again on Monday, some RL issues came up today and wont be back until then. I think Zivel is town now after his last couple posts. Dont have time to explain but will on Monday.

Ah damn, you offer the candy and then I have to wait....

[StorrZerg]

comments in green

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
the lack of confidence in this response to mtamb, makes me think virus isn't town.
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
Fairly long winded response which is just well i dont' know. since you don't actually say why you didn't respond. you just said "somtimes" If its a tactical advantage for mafia, why would you disable it then? if your town what do you have to hide?


and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

This is incredibly false. While you may choose to be inactive day 1 (which is not good for town) You did not get caught for being "active"
You got caught not reading the rules (which prompted you to respond)
You then tried to throw dirt on storr/tambo (you said something 100% that wasn't true, so a lie now) which leads to more pressure
Then you admitted to "laying low" aka playing inactive in hopes the case would "go away" (which results in MORE pressure)
This results in your claim, which majority of town felt it was ok to have a 1 shot vig die (mafia vig)

"active" is not what you played last game. You purposely went "inactive" last game to avoid pressure. It seems the pattern may have returned this game... Hence the extended wait for you to post this game.




anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

So the discussion you have on the game so far is "i don't wanna vote on ultra" because his arguments are "valid" are mafia unable to make valid arguments? there is no further discussion from virus about ultra, just a simple 1 liner.

Secondly we have him discussing miss-lynch and the value in it. (well him not believing in the value) So it seems funny that he thinks ultras points are valid on no lynch. But doesn't agree with no lynch. Thus virus would want a lynch today, yet says there isn't much value in a miss lynched town. It seems like an odd train of thoughts. Either way, what he talks about is not really telling on what he thinks about the game. Its just his idea of what value a lynch has. So as of this point we are (what 4 days in?) and this is the only post he has, and its really that's it.....

Its honestly surprising that no one else bothered to speak up about virus...

[StorrZerg]

following a case

^ is a euphemism for bandwagoning

You know what you are doing, you know that a No Lynch is good for scum and so you are trying to push it on a town that you think you know more than.

^ Only in games with Night Zero are they definitively good for scum Day One

[quote=I think Ultra needs to accept that a no lynch is not going to happen and put a real vote out there.

I UL'd NL already - apparently you're still lynching me?

Lynch dd
^ Pressure.[/quote]

i agree, more pressure on DD Even lynch.

[StorrZerg]

This is also why your attacking each and every player could very well end up as a waste of our time and effort... And your FORCING the No Lynch by trying to create some sort of stigma around it is also ridiculous...

Maybe we have TWO killers... Maybe a paranoid gun owner and a Serial Killer... But the point is we DO have a serial killer... And they don't have to work together.

cut out the stuff that got addressed, wanted to talk about these 2 points.

I'm not wasting my time, i'm learning about the game, and trying to solve it. So you don't have a point imo. As far as "no lynch stigma" im not "creating stuff" about why no lynch is bad, I am expressing my opinion, as others are, and others have used facts and citing why lynching is good.

Why are you assuming there are 3rd parties? Sure we might have 1 or some, but to go so far as auto assuming off the title of the game that there has to be a SK is a bit reaching. and as it was pointed out, who cares if there is one. We still need to lynch mafia. we can figure out if a SK is in the game latter.

[StorrZerg]

Double post

By the way, don't take my posts too personal, upon rereading I see I'm being a bit cold. I'm here to have fun with the game, and I don't want to ruin yours.

You are doing fine, no one calling you an asshole yet, so you know you haven't over stepped. i've been liking your recent posting. Interested to see who you push. While i can agree with a lot of what you are saying, i'm just not sure where you think mafia are.

[StorrZerg]

@UltrasPlot if i claimed VT would i be a decent lynch for today?

[StorrZerg]

@Whatsausage who are you going to push?
still on crazy? (i don't see you continuing poke him O_o)

So his reads agreed with your own, you liked how he got there, and....? Or is that all it takes?

My town read on anamainiacks, is actually because he had a different read on anark than I did. (among other things in the post) So that's not all it takes

[StorrZerg]

Last post for a while, going on a 20 mile hike today.

I'll sheep zivel


Unvote virus90
Vote pancakemix

In short i'd support the lynching of lots of players... at this point (lynching pressure w/e ) and here is where im at..

virus (1 post explained why i disliked it)
streaker (yeah what? didn't have time to get to him)
Crazymilkshake5 (i think 1 post thats it?)
Anarkistsdream (meh might come back to him well see)
Army of God
dd515187 (fallen off like the dickens)


Null
mtamburini
Hotshot53
Whatsausage
Hotshot53

town
ultra (slight town read)
aage (slight town read, like his posting, but he has not pushed anyone)
zivel
Strikewolf

stronger town
Anamainiacks
crasp

[Streaker]

Sorry guys, at work and had to catch up with games before i came here. Way too much for a break to take in. Did see virus has checked in so unvote.

You sure are please quickly. Him popping in with a post that says nothing is good enough to let off?

[Streaker]

Last post for a while, going on a 20 mile hike today.

I'll sheep zivel


Unvote virus90
Vote pancakemix

In short i'd support the lynching of lots of players... at this point (lynching pressure w/e ) and here is where im at..

virus (1 post explained why i disliked it)
streaker (yeah what? didn't have time to get to him)
Crazymilkshake5 (i think 1 post thats it?)
Anarkistsdream (meh might come back to him well see)
Army of God
dd515187 (fallen off like the dickens)


Null
mtamburini
Hotshot53
Whatsausage
Hotshot53

town
ultra (slight town read)
aage (slight town read, like his posting, but he has not pushed anyone)
zivel
Strikewolf

stronger town
Anamainiacks
crasp

That's great and all, but just a little side note: in your other games you play the same, only much more aggro and persuing. You are definitely hunting, but all over the place instead of sticking to your main leads. Could be you are simply unsure, or could be you have different reasons.

[Streaker]

yeah i agree on pcm atm. last game he was a lot more willing to throw his vote out, and a bit more verbal on what he wanted to do in the game.


Anyone have thoughts on Virus? i know he only has one post but yeah

Virus super scummy, have seen him online in the forums on multiple occasions but not much posting (just the 1 I believe?) Either he's not caring to post or he's hiding. Still a worthy persuit this one.

---

I'm not willing to let go of Ultra, it just doesn't feel right. Ok it's not worth blindly lynching him for the No lynch matter, but he's not defending himself properly either.
Consider this: he is threatening town that they will lynch town power role? Why'd you give that info to town anyway when you are town? Why'd you give that info when you see that the wagon on you isn't going far? There was not THAT much pressure on him... Very scummy play imo.

[strike wolf]

Right now, I'd probably favor a Nark lynch. I had two scum reads but the other without pressure made a post that did what I didn't like that he hadn't done enough of to sway my leer away from him for now. My main problem with Nark is the content of his posts. He claims he's saying a lot about the game but a large percentage of his recent posts tend to go towards targeting game mechanics (Not alignment indicative by itself but easy for mafia to do when it goes along with avoiding direct pressure on anyone) and a roundabout case about why role fishing is supposedly good when his basis was kind of iffy as it assumes one SK game based on the title of the thread.

To look at Nark's last post more closely, I think Aage put it pretty well here:

In-post reply:

So, this really irks me... I bother to write a very good post, putting ideas out there and so forth. And the only thing I get in return is Mtam and Storr arguing the most rudimentary and ignorant rhetorical and semantic words, leaving all ofthe substance I placed in that post out so that they can bandy a few words and lead us down the path of nowhere... Great job, guys, way to totally miss the point.
You mean this post? It doesn't discuss the game at all, nor put forward relevant ideas. You talk about game mechanics, pro-town plays you don't really enjoy and flavour, which the mod forbids us to talk about.

Once Upon a Killer Mafia... Not Killers... Are we not jumping the gun just a bit to NOT surmise that only one killer exists, and the rest of us are trying to find him? A few cops, maybe a doc, a couple of Trackers, maybe... Just enough to really gum up the works when that ONE killer goes around and starts taking us down. We see that Player X was killed, but three different players saw Two or Three different players visit him...
More speculation that is irrelevant on D1. First off, if you're going to speculate on the roles, read the opening post: "I've tried to make this game as balanced as possible, but expect crazy things to go on." That defeats your entire speculation (also, second time I quoted the opening post to you, maybe you should read it). Secondly, there is no point discussing the actions for N1 before it has passed. Thirdly, you didn't mention any of this in your previous post so I don't see the point of saying "way to totally miss the point" when you never made the point.

See, Storr, you may claim I was "rolefishing," but that was the point of my last post... You know, the one you blatantly ignored so you could continue arguing semantics and looking immature. But, as no one will look past the obvious, here, I am forced to post a bit more bluntly... (But look how clever you are... )
Actually, I was the guy claiming you were rolefishing, skim much.

This is also why your attacking each and every player could very well end up as a waste of our time and effort... And your FORCING the No Lynch by trying to create some sort of stigma around it is also ridiculous...
Explain what you mean with forcing the no lynch. Storr hasn't advocated no lynch once.

Maybe we have TWO killers... Maybe a paranoid gun owner and a Serial Killer... But the point is we DO have a serial killer... And they don't have to work together.
/speculation, see above.

That said let us look back at the posts he talks about:

Actually, aage, you bring up a really good point that I honestly can't find any OTHER reference to reading back through the thread...

Rishaed, you wrote:
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

A lynch of whom? For what? Will it only be people who have already had votes against them? Will it be completely random? If an arbitrary lynch is going to be enforced regardless of the players' votes, then that makes the No Lynch that much more of a possibility. I think this rule needs to be clarified for us before too much more time passes.

Not very useful. Seems more for putting up content than anything.

As for my vote on Storr, of course it was for the point, and not for the vote... I wouldn't want him voted out at this point because he DOES progress play a considerable amount, although I personally still DO like joke voting and have a good time the first few days of the game, especially when each "Day" is going to be so long. There is no need to hit the ground running and start attacking people. Let people relax and test the waters. But, that is the way Storr has always played, so... Whatev... Also, my defense of Virus was completely valid, as anybody who tried to use their phone on forums usually ends up with problems... After I made that fact in my defense of Storr, I have noticed several people say the same thing.

Okay some merit to that. Why vote him though? I believe someone else pointed this out but it does sound like your point could have been made without a vote and you say yourself that this is standard Storr behavior.

I will now finish with something I usually have to say. Post counts don't matter on their own. Post content does not matter on its own... Only by viewing both the post counts with their content can any analysis of people truly be made... And, when only 4 or 5 players have several posts with decent content in each one, that leaves 3/4 of the players to sneak by, regardless of whether they are town or scum or third-party...

Don't really have a problem about this on its own but it does point to a bigger picture that I will get to.

Now, I know a few of us have more inside information on this game then others... I think it is prudent that we don't spend day after day watching Storr attack- er, I mean "analyze"- other players styles because they don't play like him. Instead, we need to try and work out what info people already have and start from there. It will be much more helpful in the later stages of the game, especially if people with info are killed, which is most likely the case. So, with that being said, instead of worrying about sane cops, insane cops, busdrivers, blah blah blah... What can people concretely give us about the game??? Because I know at least a few of you have more info, and, if you are town or third-party that can win with town, it would behoove you to come forward with it. Until then, I think the only thing that is really going to help us progress in this game is Night One...

Kind of rolefishy but here's the other thing. As far as useful information that points to scum, town are usually only too happy to come forward with information like that, so useless reminder. Useful information that points to a townie, only valid if the townie is under significant pressure.

So a lot of generic kind of townie sounding posts. "We should do this or that or that plus this" about how the game should be played, some game mechanics/flavour speculation and some stuff that doesn't really sound all that townie to me but where's the content? Where are you speculations about who is acting scummy? You can't hide behind testing the waters at this point, we are well into the discussion part of the day.

As far as reads, I am not going to include the neutrals, there are too many of them:

Town:

Aage-this is my only strong town read right now. I like what he's posted and I disagree with Storr in that I do seem him pressuring people. He's just not throwing around his vote on any little thing.

Scum:

Storr
Pancake
Ultra
Anarkist

Seriously need to post:

Streaker (yes I am aware he just posted and I don't disagree with his thoughts but there's still not really enough content)
DD
Crazymilkshake
Virus

fp'd by streaker. Will read after posting.

[strike wolf]

Oh and Vote Anarkistdream

[Streaker]

Some general reads:

1.Hotshot53 Neutral
2.Pancakemix town
3.mtamburini town
4.Streaker
5.Virus90 Mafia
6.aage Neutral
7.Storrzerg sligthly mafia, more meta then an actual read though
8.Ultrasplot scum read
9.Zivel neutral, leaning scum
10.Whatsausage sligthly scum feeling
11.Army of God leaning scum
12.Anamainiacks neutral, leaning town
13.Crasp town
14.dd515187 was town, dissapeared. he played more active last game and he was mafia there.
15.Anarkistsdream Neutral
16.Strikewolf Town read
17.Crazymilkshake5 Neutral

Fp'd strike wolf

Twice...

[HotShot53]

comments in green

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
the lack of confidence in this response to mtamb, makes me think virus isn't town.
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
Fairly long winded response which is just well i dont' know. since you don't actually say why you didn't respond. you just said "somtimes" If its a tactical advantage for mafia, why would you disable it then? if your town what do you have to hide?


and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

This is incredibly false. While you may choose to be inactive day 1 (which is not good for town) You did not get caught for being "active"
You got caught not reading the rules (which prompted you to respond)
You then tried to throw dirt on storr/tambo (you said something 100% that wasn't true, so a lie now) which leads to more pressure
Then you admitted to "laying low" aka playing inactive in hopes the case would "go away" (which results in MORE pressure)
This results in your claim, which majority of town felt it was ok to have a 1 shot vig die (mafia vig)

"active" is not what you played last game. You purposely went "inactive" last game to avoid pressure. It seems the pattern may have returned this game... Hence the extended wait for you to post this game.




anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

So the discussion you have on the game so far is "i don't wanna vote on ultra" because his arguments are "valid" are mafia unable to make valid arguments? there is no further discussion from virus about ultra, just a simple 1 liner.

Secondly we have him discussing miss-lynch and the value in it. (well him not believing in the value) So it seems funny that he thinks ultras points are valid on no lynch. But doesn't agree with no lynch. Thus virus would want a lynch today, yet says there isn't much value in a miss lynched town. It seems like an odd train of thoughts. Either way, what he talks about is not really telling on what he thinks about the game. Its just his idea of what value a lynch has. So as of this point we are (what 4 days in?) and this is the only post he has, and its really that's it.....

Its honestly surprising that no one else bothered to speak up about virus...

I would have to agree with all of storr's' points here.

Ultra has been posting and contributing more recently, so I'll let his NL vote slide as a newbie (on these forums) mistake for now, and remove my vote unvote

Streaker and DD for their relative inactivity other than joining the bandwagon get FOS, but for now virus and his one post admitting he's trying to be less active day 1 so he doesn't get lynched by his activity deserves a vote and pressure. vote virus

FP 3 times... As far as Nark, some of the things he said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny... so I will give him a FOS but stay voting virus for now

[Streaker]

No No No No NO

Why are peple letting go of Ultro so easily?

i'll sum things up for all of you:

-Pushing No Lynch (got a wagon started for policy)
-Defending his push for NL with: can't lynch without cop info. He is explicitely trying to stop all daytime discussion here. This is wrong for several reasons (he wants cop outed on D2, doesn't want info from posts...)
-Threatening town with the 'i'm a town power role, you can't lynch me!' post. Like I said before, with as little pressure as there is on Ultra, and a quickly fading wagon this is simply unneeded if you are town.
-Not going after an actual case (not scumhunting AT ALL). Not by voting and not by posting. Many posts yes but nothing really pushing after mafia either.

This is about more then policy lynching... I'm sad that we didn't get more pressure on him.

[StorrZerg]

@Streaker tell me about ultras reads, what is bad, what did you like?

[Streaker]

Readz, since I'm tired of pushing the NL. (These are based on scumminess. 70% mafia does not mean LYNCH NOW.) (Another vote and I claim, and that will harm town considerably... mark my words) As far as this goes I have a good feeling some of those who are wagoning me are scum, although this could be lynchee bias.
StorrZerg: 10% Mafia, making full thoughtful posts (although imo he is still in the wrong about D1 nl) We should probably eliminate him from the Day One lynch for now since a mafia would be unlikely to take the time to call me out and yet not bandwagon.
Hotshot53: 40% Mafia,

Wow, these are going to be long days... Storr has really short days, rishead has really long days... I think somewhere inbetween would be better for these forums, tbh.




UltrasPlot wrote:
No Lynch

Why don't we wait for tomorrow's cop report, ffs... no point randlynching now

Umm... apparently you haven't played enough on these forums to know that saying no lynch on day one before there is even any discussions going is basically a lynchable offense here. We have 12 days to see how people react to things/post/etc... cutting off discussions before they even start is very scummy.

vote ultrasplot

Again, what makes this a lynchable offense? The part where cutting off discussion is scummy, that's whats lynchable.
Streaker: 70% Mafia, completely empty post, bandwagon Your call. It's not empty. OMGUS 1?
Zivel: 50% Mafia,

OMGUS 2
I like Stors play at least he is doing something, and poking the angry bear Mtam is always going to get something happening. Stor is town, Mtam I can't read so I dont know. Strike probably has the right idea of keeping his head down, but meh. Day one is boring if you don't start some strawman arguments. Pancake is boring scum. I mean, he comes in and says the party is going to start and then tells off the only two at the bloody party. Ofcourse you like Storr. He's probably the one who can get you out of this mess, eh?

Day one can be a drag, but those that don't want to participate in it volunteer themselves for a lynching to get it over quicker imo. No lynch in day one is bad for town.

Lynch with empty post, gj, bandwagon.
dd515087: 50% Mafia, empty post. lynch. = scummy. OMGUS 3
Anamainiacks: 50% Mafia,

Woah, pretty quick to be advocating the no lynch vote already eh? It's been less than 12 hours since the day even started...
OMGUS 4

We should always try to at least get some information out of the day phase, whether through a random slip up (though admittedly not quite common) or otherwise, or just to get a feel of the other players. And since you mentioned in the Mafia Games Handbook that you "have experience moderating" on another platform, you should be aware of this. So why the rush?

Why the rush? No rush. Although the discussion won't help very much regardless. Lynching for a NL vote, as someone mentioned earlier, is more scummy than a NL early.
crasp: 30% Mafia, idk what the hell you're doing bored villy or bored mafia You knwo it, OMGUS 5

As for those that are supporting me there is still a possibility of mafia within them. Army of GOD could want the immediate NL without any discussion whatsoever, which was not my intent. For all I know, they might be mafia reading neutral off me and trying to lure me to their side. For now this is gonna be my reads, might post more soon.

To give answer, Storr, I put my own thoughts into the quote (sorry for the mess then). It's in the nice pinky colour. I can sum all his 'reads' up nice and easy: OMGUS. Those aren't cases he's pushing. He's franticly trying not to get lynched.

[pancakemix]

You mean this one:

...no, no I didn't. Thank yu for demonstrating your unwillingness to read back more than three pages.

Seriously? You talk mechanics for most of it and the rest you have a go at storr. Infact the only read you have given in 11 pages of content has been on storr who is the easy pickings cause he is the most out there. Now I am not sold on storr town, I think my position on him is changing but I would like more reads from you than this weak stuff. Are you just sitting quietly there waiting for us to lynch Ultra cause he has some dumb idea about day one lynchs or maybe pick on the most prolific as that is always an easy lynch day one, knowing that your scum buddies are safe?

And? Seriously, D1 has some leeway. I can't even talk mechanics at all? I respond to comments hat don't make sense and direct addresses. If you want something, you have to ask.

Look, I already asked you to actively engage me. You want reads. Why don't you ask me for some instead of posting the exact same thing you did before and pretending it's escalating pressure?

Virus super scummy, have seen him online in the forums on multiple occasions but not much posting (just the 1 I believe?) Either he's not caring to post or he's hiding. Still a worthy persuit this one.

We've already been over this. Try to keep up. (Same goes for HotShot)

No No No No NO

Why are peple letting go of Ultro so easily?

i'll sum things up for all of you:

-Pushing No Lynch (got a wagon started for policy)
-Defending his push for NL with: can't lynch without cop info. He is explicitely trying to stop all daytime discussion here. This is wrong for several reasons (he wants cop outed on D2, doesn't want info from posts...)
-Threatening town with the 'i'm a town power role, you can't lynch me!' post. Like I said before, with as little pressure as there is on Ultra, and a quickly fading wagon this is simply unneeded if you are town.
-Not going after an actual case (not scumhunting AT ALL). Not by voting and not by posting. Many posts yes but nothing really pushing after mafia either.

This is about more then policy lynching... I'm sad that we didn't get more pressure on him.

You seem really into this Ultra lynch. There's either more to it than you're letting on or you're scum looking for the easy route.

[aage]

Those aren't cases he's pushing. He's franticly trying not to get lynched.

Exactly. I noticed that at one point, he said something like "hey, everyone voting for me isn't posting". I think the reason he's throwing around these OMGUS is because he feels he's still being pressured to the point of getting lynched, mainly by Zivel, but me and you (Streaker) also admitted preferring a lynch on Ultra today, but the lynching pressure on him has decreased. He's very passive-aggressive, especially the last few pages.

Explanation within 24 hours or lynch. I mean it.

(Threatening some inactive with a lynch)
Followed by:

As for why DD:
*reasons*

Also remember that I get lynched (and js we lose another if I get lynched... one with an important role...) if I have the most votes by deadline, since plurality seems to apply.

(Attempt to pull other people on his wagon, reminder that it's important that someone else has more votes than him or he is lynched)
Followed by:

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

(This is a blatant threat to town, 'i'm a power role so don't lynch me')

Now I take his soft claim seriously to some extent, and I don't like pressuring a power role into claiming... but he didn't need to claim at all. The pressure was decreasing.
Vote-wise, thinks look positive; Animainiacks unvoted between the third and the fourth post above - that is, the Ultra wagon went down a vote. Discussion-wise, nobody accused him significantly between those two posts: I made a remark concerning his case on Dd, but that was maybe 10% of my post. Animainiacks finished his contribution with "you still could be scum", but he did remove his vote from Ultra. Somehow that still made him softclaim.
Secondly, softclaiming a power role is not logical. Let's pull out that good old opening post again:

Hey all! Its been awhile and I'm hosting another Non-Vanilla Game.

If you're going to claim a power role, be specific. Everyone knows (or should know...) that all townies are special. Every role in this game entails more than a vote, soft claiming doesn't do anything. So why would Ultra soft claim a power role when the pressure on him has lessened while this is an NV game?


I think it's a big mistake to let him off the hook after this. When he initially voted for no lynch, I replied by saying "Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use." I'd still like him to tell us, more than ever, so I'll Vote Ultra.


Zivel, why didn't you catch this? And would you consider replacing your vote?

[aage]

Those aren't cases he's pushing. He's franticly trying not to get lynched.

Exactly. I noticed that at one point, he said something like "hey, everyone voting for me isn't posting". I think the reason he's throwing around these OMGUS is because he feels he's still being pressured to the point of getting lynched, mainly by Zivel, but me and you (Streaker) also admitted preferring a lynch on Ultra today. Despite that, the lynching pressure on him has decreased. He's very passive-aggressive, especially the last few pages.

Explanation within 24 hours or lynch. I mean it.

(Threatening some inactive with a lynch)
Followed by:

As for why DD:
*reasons*

Also remember that I get lynched (and js we lose another if I get lynched... one with an important role...) if I have the most votes by deadline, since plurality seems to apply.

(Attempt to pull other people on his wagon, reminder that it's important that someone else has more votes than him or he is lynched)
Followed by:

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

(This is a blatant threat to town, 'i'm a power role so don't lynch me')

Now I take his soft claim seriously to some extent, and I don't like pressuring a power role into claiming... but he didn't need to claim at all. The pressure was decreasing.
Vote-wise, thinks look positive; Animainiacks unvoted between the second and the third post above - that is, the Ultra wagon went down a vote. Discussion-wise, nobody accused him significantly between those two posts: I made a remark concerning his case on Dd, but that was maybe 10% of my post. Animainiacks finished his contribution with "you still could be scum", but he did remove his vote from Ultra. Somehow that still made him softclaim.
Secondly, softclaiming a power role is not logical. Let's pull out that good old opening post again:

Hey all! Its been awhile and I'm hosting another Non-Vanilla Game.

If you're going to claim a power role, be specific. Everyone knows (or should know...) that all townies are special. Every role in this game entails more than a vote, soft claiming doesn't do anything. So why would Ultra soft claim a power role when the pressure on him has lessened while this is an NV game?


I think it's a big mistake to let him off the hook after this. When he initially voted for no lynch, I replied by saying "Tell us about your awesome night action that you're so eager to use." I'd still like him to tell us, more than ever, so I'll Vote Ultra.


Zivel, why didn't you catch this? And would you consider replacing your vote?

ebwop

Gonna respond to other posts too so maybe triple post later.

[aage]

I think it makes sense. Scum could easily use the "he voted no lynch D1!!!one!!!" excuse to throw a vote on him (or me, since I did the same thing).

I don't know if I'd go further than a FOS, but the vote makes sense.

I'm criticising the reason, not the vote.

FYI: Town loses more than a vote if I die.

Not sure if softclaim just meaning non-vanilla or more specific to multiple votes.

As I said in my previous post, it's an NV game. I don't see the value of this comment, it just seems to be laying a foundation for Ultra to get off the block. Is your town read of him so strong?
This post adds up to the red flag I discussed earlier concerning Whatsausage and Ultra.

Double post

By the way, don't take my posts too personal, upon rereading I see I'm being a bit cold. I'm here to have fun with the game, and I don't want to ruin yours.

You are doing fine, no one calling you an asshole yet, so you know you haven't over stepped. i've been liking your recent posting. Interested to see who you push. While i can agree with a lot of what you are saying, i'm just not sure where you think mafia are.

I've been pushing people. Since you ask, I'm currently suspicious of Ultra, Whatsausage and Nark, and slightly suspicious of virus but not enough to warrant extra attention. Dd should probably just be MK'd or replaced as things look, if he does continue playing but keeps the same level of activity I wouldn't mind lynching him. I would have favoured a Nark lynch if Ultra hadn't softclaimed in the way he did and maybe I still do, depending on his full claim.
Unfortunately these are all 'easy' targets, so I'll discuss the list for you.

1.Hotshot53 - safe vote on virus, don't really know what to think. He is very unspecific in his posts ("some of the things [Nark] said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny" --> what things?) which I don't like.
2.Pancakemix - I get an irritated vibe off his remarks. His advocating the devil is town play to me - I have done so countless times in the past, it's a lawyer-y strategy of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It actually encourages discussion since it encourages more people to get involved, so that marks him more as town for me.
3.mtamburini - no clue, man. He posts in spikes of activity and sometimes I feel he doesn't share all his thoughts.
4.Streaker - used to be laying low, but I agree with his analysis on Ultra's behaviour so leaning town.
5.Virus90 - I just want him to post more (and make actual contributions in those posts)
7.Storrzerg - discussed earlier, I do not favour lynching him and I don't believe pressuring him now will move town forward, so neutral.
8.Ultrasplot - main suspect
9.Zivel - leaning town
10.Whatsausage - leaning scum, subtly buddying up to Ultra (the problem is, I don't think Ultra's flip would change that regardless of what he flips)
11.Army of God - I believe he believes his play is town.
12.Anamainiacks - liked his larger posts. Leaning town.
13.Crasp - town read as discussed earlier
14.dd515187 - I just want him to post more
15.Anarkistsdream - leaning scum
16.Strikewolf - neutral; I'm not trusting my read on him since he pinpointed me as his strong town read, which is bound to bias me.
17.Crazymilkshake5 - I just want him to post more

@UltrasPlot if i claimed VT would i be a decent lynch for today?

Yes. There are no VTs.

[StorrZerg]

I'd really like to see a vote from you, I honestly don't feel there is enough pressure on the board to make anyone react tbh